The Super Saiyan of Legend - Bardock?

[ItsAllGood]

Right then,

So once in a thousand years a Super Saiyan is born. And supposedly, in this generation, Goku is the Legendary SSJ. Now I know that this theory was dropped in consideration of the new arcs, i.e. Cell, Buu etc.

But since this legend was created, I would assume that many Saiyans had apparently witnessed the pinnacle of their races power, hence the legend in the first place. Now, why hadn't any other Saiyans attempted to divulge the secrets of his/her power? Would they think that this power was reserved for only one of their race in a thousand years, sort of like a lucky draw? Or would a handfull make a truely concentrated attempt to fulfill the requirements needed for the transformation?

Surely, pre-transformation, this Saiyan, whoever they may have been, would have friends to witness his or her power level raising gradually, and attempt to "keep up" , thereby initiating a transformation after fulfilling the "requirements?"

I wouldn't think so, since King Vegeta had mentioned to Vegeta that he, as the Prince and a Elite First Class warrior at that, was more or less destined to become one himself. If that is the case, then would anyone lower than an Elite Class bother with it?

We all know that Freeza destroyed Planet Vegeta in an attempt to extinguish the legend, whoever he may have been in that massive show of manpower above the planet. But could the REAL Legendary SSJ, excluding Brolli and Goku, have been up there, unbeknownst to any of the thousands of Saiyans?

COULD it have been...Bardock? After all, he was only getting stronger as time went on, apparently surpassing his power level for a lower class warrior, and he obviously had enough anger at Freeza to trigger the transformation, if given enough time and the required power level. I believe that all the signs are there for a SSJ Bardock, well before Goku could achieve the level.

Sorry for the long post!

Thoughts?

ItsAllGood

[Demi]

No, if Bardock was the Legendary Super Saiyan, there would be clearer signs. Broly is the Legendary Super Saiyan.

[Hao_Kaiser]

No, if Bardock was the Legendary Super Saiyan, there would be clearer signs. Broly is the Legendary Super Saiyan.

Yeah, but the whole "legendary super saiyan" thing was killed after Goku reached SSJ 1. Well...aside from the first Broly movie...it think it's clear at this point that every saiyan has the ability to reach super saiyan, just the the potential to...or something of that sort.

But then again, neither Bardock or Broly is all that important to the story, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

[Duo]

If Burdock were the "Legendary Super Saiyan" they why in the world did he die so easy?

There really isn't any "Legendary Super Saiyan", as it is proven that any Super Saiyan has the power deep inside them, assuming they can get their PL anywhere near Goku's insane base power of over 3 Million and undergo an event of extreme rage.

[ItsAllGood]

I'm only saying Bardock could have been the LSSJ or a typical SSJ had he been given enough time to reach the required level needed for the transformation.

All the other requirements were fullfilled at the time he confronted Freeza.i.e - Anger, etc. I am theorising that, if only he had been stronger, he could have become a SSJ at that particular point (Freeza Battle).

But, what I dont understand is that the ORIGINAL SSJ from, who knows, hundered of years ago in the Saiyan timeline, could have figured out why and how they became a SSJ, whether legendary or not, and passed on this knowledge. but as we all know, it was just a story, excluding Broli.

I mean, we become smarter and better as time continues on, correct? We dont become recessive in progression over time. We only move forward. So why didn't this progression happen for the Saiyans, and in particular, the progression to SSJ for the entire Saiyan race?

[desirecampbell]

I'm only saying Bardock could have been the LSSJ or a typical SSJ had he been given enough time to reach the required level needed for the transformation.

All the other requirements were fullfilled at the time he confronted Freeza.i.e - Anger, etc. I am theorising that, if only he had been stronger, he could have become a SSJ at that particular point (Freeza Battle).

But, what I dont understand is that the ORIGINAL SSJ from, who knows, hundered of years ago in the Saiyan timeline, could have figured out why and how they became a SSJ, whether legendary or not, and passed on this knowledge. but as we all know, it was just a story, excluding Broli.

I mean, we become smarter and better as time continues on, correct? We dont become recessive in progression over time. We only move forward. So why didn't this progression happen for the Saiyans, and in particular, the progression to SSJ for the entire Saiyan race?

If you're talking about an evolution from Saiyan to Super Saiyan, I don't think that's possible. SSj is not a natural state.

If you're talking about the Saiyan race (as a whole) getting stronger and stronger, to the point where everyone met the requirements for Super Saiyan - that's possible - but would be a very slow process.

Heredity passes along traits (in this case, Power) of only the direct decendants. That's why Vegeta and Goku's cildren are very strong: Because their parents are.

It can be assumed that every generation would become a bit stronger than the last, and eventually, the race as a whole would be closer to 'the next level'.

Evolution isn't about 'progression' or 'regression' - in fact, it disputes the whole idea of a linear adaptave model. Nothing is 'more' or 'less' advanced, just 'better' or 'worse' suited for a particular enviroment.

[ItsAllGood]

Hmm... For arguments sake, let us assume that there really was a LSSJ, all those years ago. Taking into account the evolution of the race as a whole, and the witnesses of the first SSJ, would the other members of the saiyan race think, "Hey, that guy was just like one of us, now he's a SSJ?Would this encourage the race to become stronger, to aspire to gain this great new level? And also, would this mean that Goku and Broly are both decendants from the original SSJ?

In a perfect world, the Saiyan race as a whole could meet the requirements much sooner than evolution would allow. Seeing the original transform from a regular warrior in the Saiyan heirachy to the most powerful of their race would surely encourage others to do the same?

Even without a villan to fight against, the process of evolution could work in a slightly different way. Perhaps the Saiyan race could become more "suited" to a particular environment, in this case, the situation would be to keep up with the original SSJ, of which there would only be one in existence. The villan could be replaced by the SSJ in this scenario.

[Chaos Saiyajin]

No, if Bardock was the Legendary Super Saiyan, there would be clearer signs. Broly is the Legendary Super Saiyan.

Broli was not created by Toriyama, so it can't be said he is the legendary super saiyajin, rather I think that Goku is the legendary. I'm not trying to sound manga purist here, but Goku was the first of all of the Saiyajin in the show to become an SSJ. Goku was also the first to become a SSJ3 as well, the final form drawn by Toriyama, so I think it's safe to say that because of his ascension to the most powerful form first, he should be called the LSSJ, not Broli.

[Conan the SSJ]

Goku was the first to go SSJ, he was the only sole person to gain SSJ3, and the only Saiyan to gain SSJ4 in a true manner, not to mention he's the only Saiyan to have gone every single level, those including: Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan Stage Two, Super Saiyan Stage 3, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, and Super Saiyan 4. Judging by this, in my opinon, he was the true Legendary Super Saiyan in both manga and anime universe.

[Victator Supreme]

Broli was not created by Toriyama, so it can't be said he is the legendary super saiyajin

At the very least he was co creator. Since he designed Broly.

[Xyex]

The legend of Super Saiya-jin is, as all legends are, based on some truth. However, also like all other legends, some fiction inevitably seeps in. Especially after a thousand years. That said, the fiction that seeped into the SSJ legend would be 1) Only royals can become an SSJ and 2) Only one SSJ exists, and only every thousand years. At least going by manga. If you include the anime the third piece of fiction that seeps in to the SSJ legend is that the Oozaru form is involved.

Though that was, perhaps, Vegeta's own personal mistunderstanding. Up to this point the only "Transformed state" that Vegeta knew about was Oozaru and since he knew that an SSJ could only maintain it's power while transformed he probably linked the two himself.

So, with all of this said, the actual and full truth of the SSJ form isn't known. What is known is that, prior to Goku's transformation, it had been a thousand years since the last one. By the fact that Vegeta, Gohan, Trunks, and Goten all reached SSJ as well it's evident that the form is not restricted to just one Saiya-jin at a time. And certainly not to the royal blood-line.

Which means, the "Legendary Super Saiya-jin" is the one who transformed a thousand year previous, and no one else. There is no "Legendary Super Saiya-jin" born every thousand years, it's an inate power to all Saiya-jins that is hard to attain and rare to see. We know that the last one blew himself, and the planet he was on, up. (Or at least it exploded while he was on it. He may not have caused it, that could be part of the Fiction.)

The point is, he died. Perhaps, and most likely, before having any (more) children preventing the likes of a Goten or Chibi Trunks in his own time period. Also, it is likely he died shortly after his transformation. Thus he was not only not given the chance to have SSJ children but also not given the chance to talk about what enabled his tranformation.

It is likely Vegeta is the only one other than Goku to have attained SSJ entirely on his own. Mirai Gohan no doubt heard about how Goku reached it on Namek after his father returned. While the trigger was natural (Androids obliterating everyone) he did have some idea of how to reach the level. Same for Mirai Trunks.

Gohan was trained into the level while Goten and Trunks were born into it. This all explain how the form was reached by so many. Had Goku not made it through on Namek I doubt anyone else would have ascended. Vegeta wouldn't have had Goku to push him into SSJ for one. Gohan would have still faced the trigger but, as we all know, he tends to hold back. Without knowledge of how to attain SSJ he may have held back and thus stopped his own transformation.

Not have SSJ, Mirai Gohan would most likely have gotten himself killed long before he did and thus prevented Mirai Trunks' transformation, if you go by anime. Go by manga and he still wouldn't be SSJ since Vegeta never attained it (It seems to me that manga Mirai Trunks got SSJ the same way as Goten and Chibi Trunks).

er, and now that I've rambled I think I've covered everything/said everything I meant to...

[Last Son of Krypton]

Goku was the first to go SSJ, he was the only sole person to gain SSJ3, and the only Saiyan to gain SSJ4 in a true manner, not to mention he's the only Saiyan to have gone every single level, those including: Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan Stage Two, Super Saiyan Stage 3, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, and Super Saiyan 4. Judging by this, in my opinon, he was the true Legendary Super Saiyan in both manga and anime universe.

Don't forget Goku went Full Power Super Saiyan.

[Conan the SSJ]

Goku was the first to go SSJ, he was the only sole person to gain SSJ3, and the only Saiyan to gain SSJ4 in a true manner, not to mention he's the only Saiyan to have gone every single level, those including: Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan Stage Two, Super Saiyan Stage 3, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, and Super Saiyan 4. Judging by this, in my opinon, he was the true Legendary Super Saiyan in both manga and anime universe.

Don't forget Goku went Full Power Super Saiyan.

Full Power Super Saiyan was more a power level than it was a form, considering the Saiyans whom attained it (Goku and Gohan) really didn't change physicly. All that really was, was a trained instinct to always stay in SSJ form so that the maximum power of SSJ could be pushed past ordinary limitations.

[ItsAllGood]

I certainly agree with Vegeta linking the SSJ legend to himself. Perhaps that why he was training at such a young age to be both powerful AND maintain his sanity during the Oozaru form. He definitely grew up thinking he was the heir to the SSJ title, and as such, put in the hard work to fullfil the requirements that he knew of.

On a side note, its quite interesting to hear that the original SSJ died along with the destruction of the planet he was on, as this mimics what happened to Goku on Namek to a certain point. As well as this, the original SSJ probabaly had no-one but the "villan" at the time to witness the transformation,where as Goku had Gohan there at the time.

The question is, who SURVIVED to tell the tale of the SSJ? Someone must have, otherwise there would have beeen no legend!

As well as Full power SSJ, he also reached all levels between SSJ1 and 2, i.e - Full power SSJ, Ultra and Ultra 2 SSJ.