Daizenshuu EX DB wiki...again

[Piccolo Daimao]

You know what I mean. Anyway, if the Daizenshuu lists them, then I guess it's alright to include them.

[Innagadadavida]

What about a page with a catalog of videogame-only attacks? Including a description of the technique, list of characters that can use it, and video games it appeared in.

[desirecampbell]

What about a page with a catalog of videogame-only attacks? Including a description of the technique, list of characters that can use it, and video games it appeared in.

Again, I doubt the wisdom in segregating such similar content. Why make two pages of attacks when one page will do? Just have one page "attacks" and note where the attacks are used.

[ChahikoDBZ]

I can't say I'm a big fan of the tab system. I'd prefer one long article page for simplicity's sake.

I agree with this. Sounds much more simpler than a tab system.

[Saiga]

I was really excited when I read that Kanzenshuu are going to create their own wiki, because the current DB wiki is very inaccurate which is a damn shame.

So, I'd like to join in on the discussion to know what's going on with it and help out in any way I can with the project.

[LiamKav]

Me too. Although I guess that means I'm going to have to read through 44 pages on this thread. Tsk.

[LiamKav]

Just to add another tidbit to the discussion, every Marvel movie belongs in Marvel's metaverse and it has a number like every other one, for example, they main one is Earth-616. That being said, as you can see, every franchise accepts other works differently in terms of canon.

I imagine the individual Avenger's movies take place in the same universe (Cap, Iron Man etc), but the one's by other studio's (Fantastic Four, Spider-Man) don't and I AM BEING DISTRACTED!?

What is going to be the deal with opinion and humour on the site? I always thought that the Transformers Wiki carries a nice balance between being gently funny while also conveying all the information it needs. The problem with someone like that is it needs strong moderators to stop people coming in and just going "HAHA I AM FUNNY MAN!" Or are we going for a "just the facts, no humour at all" sort of wiki?

(For instance, I'd really like to add a small bit to the episode guide pages mentioning evertime Vegeta exclaims "this is impossible", since he seems to do it at least once an episode whenever someone is shown to be stronger than him. Which is most of the series. But I can see why you wouldn't want something like that on a purely factual wiki.)

EDIT: I've just seen Herms's comments from July 2011:

I don't know if we've discussed this or not, but would it okay to add funny captions like what they do at the Transformers and Madoka Magica wikis?

I personally think stuff like that is pointless and that it's a mistake to try introducing something as subjective as humor into a cooperative and fact-based project like this. I also think captions as a whole are very overused in most of these fandom-based wikis, often providing unneeded explanations of pictures that speak for themselves. Not to mention that even if we did it, something like that would be just a bonus feature, to be added after the basics have been taken care of. It's not something we should be discussing when we still haven't written the first word of this thing.

While adding humour to a wiki is a tricky thing to do, with a strong, agreed upon style guide and fairly ruthless editors, I believe it can work. As I said, I think the Transformers wiki is a great example of that. However, his second point is definitely something I agree with. It would be an extra, and the basics have to be all down first. The TF wiki tends to use the funny captions as a reward for the people who do the most work. You aren't just allowed to post a change that's just a joke. The more work you put in, the greater leeway you are allowed with the funny. Which is why the guy who went through all of the Japanese version of Energon was basically allowed to do what the hell he liked. No-one should have to watch that.

[Bussani]

I really don't like the Transformers wiki's "funny" captions. Many of them are in-jokes that you wouldn't get unless you know the context of the image, and multiple times I've found myself on there looking at an image, wondering where it's from, and only seeing some joke I don't find funny underneath it. Someone eventually told me that there's a real description of the image if you click on it, but that's just bad design, if you ask me. It's meant to be a resource to check facts, and that should always come first.

[DNA]

People seem to forget that the purpose of any wiki is being an on-line encyclopaedia of a certain subject. An encyclopaedia is a normally a series of books with nothing but pure facts and factual evidence, thus there is no room for humour in an encyclopaedia, be it on-line or not.

Funny enough, Bulbapedia is an excellent example of a good wiki. I'm sure we could use some of the ideas there. For example, a section that lists the different names for a certain character across the globe.

[LiamKav]

I think there's a difference between being gently humorous and going over the top. We are, after all, talking about a series where an evil demon was trapped in a rice cooker, where a respected old master is also a dirty old pervert, and the final big bad of the series is a big pink bubblegum monster. If you present things in a completely dry style, it does make things a bit more of a slog to do and read. Imagine the podcast if it was done deadly serious.

But (to argue with myself), Wiki's and podcasts are two very different things, so maybe they should be done differently. The one things I think you absolutely have to give the TF Wiki credit for is splitting from Wikia, leaving behind an old wiki which is gradually turning into a TF version of the DragonBall Wiki, and then getting their new wiki to the top of Google searches through shear quality.

(Oh my god, that's the word "Wiki" said a lot of times.)

Anyway, to talk about something else... has it been decided whether the Wiki is going to lead with the manga or anime? In a lot of cases it would be redundent to talk about both since the anime is just the manga with extra bits. On a character page, for instance, it would be really redundent to have a section listing everything they did in the manga, and then everything they did in the anime, since you'd have lots of duplicate information in both. So what would be the best way? Lead with the manga, and then mention any extra stuff in a seperate section? Just describe the anime, and leave the manga differences to their individual chapter pages? And what about other pages? Would you say that Capsules made their first appearance in episode 1, or chapter 1?

[VegettoEX]

Just for one point of clarity, the wiki will be subject to the style guide (which we will of course share when it's complete) for character names (and other phrasings) that we Kanzenshuu staff dictate.

Like I was saying elsewhere -- biased elitist uncompromising irrational agenda forced upon the Internet in other, more different ways.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I think there's a difference between being gently humorous and going over the top. We are, after all, talking about a series where an evil demon was trapped in a rice cooker, where a respected old master is also a dirty old pervert, and the final big bad of the series is a big pink bubblegum monster. If you present things in a completely dry style, it does make things a bit more of a slog to do and read. Imagine the podcast if it was done deadly serious.

I never have trouble reading about various articles on the main Wikipedia page about penises or Futurama. If you find it a slog to do and read, well, I suppose that's your fault. And nothing worth having in life comes easy, everything needs a bit of elbow grease, and all that. No matter how ridiculous the subject may be, we're aiming to be an authoriative and respectable online encyclopedia, and out-of-place humour just wouldn't mesh with that style.

[LiamKav]

Yeah, I get that. It's not so much the articles on episodes, but something on, say, Chi-Chi's car. That could be a very dull article. Characters and episodes will always be more interesting (as, say, episodes of Futurama or penises will always be more interesting than the history of cushions.)

But that's a really, really small point. One of the reasons lots of wikis avoid humour is that it can overwhelm the factual content, which should always be the primary focus. So whether the staff want humour or not is irrelevent at this point, since the hard work itself needs to be done first.

I await the Kanzenshuu staff giving us our first orders.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Yeah, I get that. It's not so much the articles on episodes, but something on, say, Chi-Chi's car. That could be a very dull article. Characters and episodes will always be more interesting (as, say, episodes of Futurama or penises will always be more interesting than the history of cushions.)

But that's a really, really small point. One of the reasons lots of wikis avoid humour is that it can overwhelm the factual content, which should always be the primary focus. So whether the staff want humour or not is irrelevent at this point, since the hard work itself needs to be done first.

I await the Kanzenshuu staff giving us our first orders.

Yeah, I know. But it's not as if we're going to have a whole article on something as minor as Chi-Chi's car. But humour isn't exactly encyclopaedic.

[LiamKav]

Well, why wouldn't we? Surely everything that has appeared in the show is up for an article, especially if it appears in more than one episode?

This is just us two now, isn't it? Maybe we should wait for more info from the bosses?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I was wondering, in the wiki, when talking about fights like Gohan vs Dabra or Vegeta's & Gohan's fights in GT, will we call them as SSJ or SSJ2? There is the debate about Gohan vs Dabra that will go on for ever, and we are not sure in GT when/if Vegeta or Gohan use their SSJ2 forms.

[ChahikoDBZ]

I was wondering, in the wiki, when talking about fights like Gohan vs Dabra or Vegeta's & Gohan's fights in GT, will we call them as SSJ or SSJ2? There is the debate about Gohan vs Dabra that will go on for ever, and we are not sure in GT when/if Vegeta or Gohan use their SSJ2 forms.

Agreed. I just watched the fight between Gohan and Dabra. His hairstyle looks like that of an SSJ2. However there are no sparks surrounding his aura. I am wondering this as well.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Agreed. I just watched the fight between Gohan and Dabra. His hairstyle looks like that of an SSJ2. However there are no sparks surrounding his aura. I am wondering this as well.

His hair was like SSJ, as well as his aura in the manga. If you want to discuss this, go here.
The question was, will we call them SSJ or SSJ2?

[VegettoEX]

You're so many steps ahead of where this needs to be, that you really need to take a step back. There still isn't even an approved structure, format, and style guide for the pages -- wondering where and how to place the strength arguments within articles shouldn't be a concern to anyone right now.

We're still working on back-end things and bringing all of Kanzenshuu as a whole up-to-snuff. Holding position. Chills, yo. It's coming. Eventually. Not the main priority right now. But is coming. And we're glad everyone's still so enthusiastic about it.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Wow, it's still that back?
Is there any possibility to launch within summer?