Stupid Question about "Mystic" Gohan

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:59 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
SSj Kaboom wrote:But I'm disappointed to never have heard VegettoEX's take on it.
Because I abso-fuckin'-lutely hate these types of conversations .

Figured that. Completely understood.

Meh, either way, I just find it hard to believe that Goku, although not as strong as Mystic Gohan, wouldn't even be as strong as Gotenks at SSj3, much less weaker. Goten and Trunks never seemed to be that strong, even fused. Expecially since in the overall presentation of Goku's using SSj3, he's portrayed as being absolutely dominating, with SSj3 being like "the ultimate stage, second only to fusion," or something like that.

So, for me, it's just hard to believe that Gotenks would be better or stronger than Goku.

Again... meh.

...What is "meh," anyway?

Ignore that.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:38 pm

Alright, I have to know... why do people think Gotenks was stronger than Goku? Gotenks apparently could've beaten Super Buu, but Goku said he wasn't strong enough? But wasn't Goku facing Super Buu after he had absorbed everyone, theus he was facing a much tougher enemy?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:23 pm

desirecampbell wrote:Alright, I have to know... why do people think Gotenks was stronger than Goku? Gotenks apparently could've beaten Super Buu, but Goku said he wasn't strong enough? But wasn't Goku facing Super Buu after he had absorbed everyone, theus he was facing a much tougher enemy?

Hmm... yeah, but he was just trying to hold Buu off while Gohan looked for the dropped potara earing.

Although I seem to remember after Gotenks' fusion ran out and Buu reverted to Piccolo-Buu, Goku said something along the lines of "I can handle him now."

Post by **desirecampbell** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:09 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:
desirecampbell wrote:Alright, I have to know... why do people think Gotenks was stronger than Goku? Gotenks apparently could've beaten Super Buu, but Goku said he wasn't strong enough? But wasn't Goku facing Super Buu after he had absorbed everyone, theus he was facing a much tougher enemy?
Hmm... yeah, but he was just trying to hold Buu off while Gohan looked for the dropped potara earing.

Although I seem to remember after Gotenks' fusion ran out and Buu reverted to Piccolo-Buu, Goku said something along the lines of "I can handle him now."

Really?!

It would be very helpful to me indeed if he said something like that - can I get any conformation from anyone else about the line? Or any other lines that might give a clue as to how strong he is?

El_Diablo · Post by **El_Diablo** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:10 pm

It was "Gohan can handle you now" if I remember correctly

Post by **desirecampbell** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:30 pm

El_Diablo wrote:It was "Gohan can handle you now" if I remember correctly

So Gohan couldn't have beaten Super Buu (w/ SSj3 Gotenks, Piccolo), but could have beaten Super Buu (w/ Piccolo, Goten, Trunks)?

Anything about how Goku would fare against either?

Super DC · Post by **Super DC** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:08 pm

Goku yelled damn you to Boo when he was charging towards him. Goku definatly looked scared and already had a sweat drop on him. Goku also wouldn't fight Boo with Piccolo as his main power. If Goku felt that he stood a chance he would have done so right there and fought Boo.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:21 pm

Super DC wrote:Goku yelled damn you to Boo when he was charging towards him. Goku definatly looked scared and already had a sweat drop on him. Goku also wouldn't fight Boo with Piccolo as his main power. If Goku felt that he stood a chance he would have done so right there and fought Boo.

Hha, that sweat drop says more than anything else about how strong he is

So it's clear that Goku wouldn't beat Super Buu (w/ Piccolo, Goten, Trunks) even though he's alive and could transfor to (and maintain) SSj3.

What about that "Gohan can handle you now" comment?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:58 pm

I think, at his absolute max, Goku would be SSJ3 Gotenks' equal. But, he can't hold that level of power.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:21 am

Wow. So Gotenks is better than he's been given credit for, to have matched or surpassed Goku.

Although when you get right down to it, Goku never fought normal Super Buu, and Gotenks probably couldn't handle Piccolo/Goten/Trunks Buu either (mainly because he was the one absorbed, but... ah, whatever).

I agree with Rocketman, mostly. Odds are, Goku and Gotenks are probably about even. However, I believe Goku couldn't hold maximum power at SSj3 only because whenever he tried to use it seriously, he was debilitated by being dead or alive in the wrong place at the wrong time. That's probably the only reason.
That, and the mystical properties of Fusion allowed Gotenks to somehow reach and use SSj3 easier and with less strain than Goku could. Kinda cheating, but whatever.

So, overall, we've come to...

Mystic Gohan (definitely) > SSj3 Goku
SSj3 Goku < SSj3 Gotenks

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:55 am

Odds are no where near Goku and Gotenks being even close in power. Remember, Goku thought that, at the most, Gotenks would be able transform to SSJ1 and he felt that that would be enough to take Fat Buu. SSJ1 Gotenks is at least as powerful (though said to be stronger) than SSJ3 Goku.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:22 am

Xyex wrote:Odds are no where near Goku and Gotenks being even close in power. Remember, Goku thought that, at the most, Gotenks would be able transform to SSJ1 and he felt that that would be enough to take Fat Buu. SSJ1 Gotenks is at least as powerful (though said to be stronger) than SSJ3 Goku.

Huh? How is SSj1 Gotenks as strong as SSj3 Goku?

Metrite · Post by **Metrite** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:07 am

desirecampbell wrote:Huh? How is SSj1 Gotenks as strong as SSj3 Goku?

Because of the same reason that Freeza is stronger than ssj Goku, the reason that ssj2 Gohan from the Cell games is stronger than ssj2 Goku and Majin Vegeta were, and the same reason Buu with Gohan absorbed was stronger than Vegetto(yes, I have ran into people who even believe that...), it's just the ridiculous beliefs certain fan boys make up and spread like a plague.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:04 am

Metrite wrote:
desirecampbell wrote:Huh? How is SSj1 Gotenks as strong as SSj3 Goku?
Because of the same reason that Freeza is stronger than ssj Goku, the reason that ssj2 Gohan from the Cell games is stronger than ssj2 Goku and Majin Vegeta were, and the same reason Buu with Gohan absorbed was stronger than Vegetto(yes, I have ran into people who even believe that...), it's just the ridiculous beliefs certain fan boys make up and spread like a plague.

Uh, wha? *blink* Wow, my statemates based entirely on evidence from the manga are being called 'ridiculous beliefs'? And you're calling me a Fan Boy? Wow... Ok, folks, I'll lay this out for you.

* SSJ3 Goku is strong enough to fight Fat Buu but would be killed easily by Super Buu. (stated)
* SSJ Gotenks is strong enough to fight Super Buu without getting his ass handed to him. (shown)

Yes, Super Buu wasn't really giving it his all, but that's why I say that, at the least, SSJ3 Goku and SSJ1 Gotenks are equal in power, to take into account this fact. Anything weaker than SSJ3 Goku wouldn't even keep Super Buu entertained.

Metrite · Post by **Metrite** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:28 am

Xyex wrote:Uh, wha? *blink* Wow, my statemates based entirely on evidence from the manga are being called 'ridiculous beliefs'? And you're calling me a Fan Boy? Wow... Ok, folks, I'll lay this out for you.

* SSJ3 Goku is strong enough to fight Fat Buu but would be killed easily by Super Buu. (stated)
* SSJ Gotenks is strong enough to fight Super Buu without getting his ass handed to him. (shown)

Yes, Super Buu wasn't really giving it his all, but that's why I say that, at the least, SSJ3 Goku and SSJ1 Gotenks are equal in power, to take into account this fact. Anything weaker than SSJ3 Goku wouldn't even keep Super Buu entertained.

And there's a prime example of what I was talking about, one who just brings up the same things again, going out of their way to ignore anything they disagree with(it's basically spreading the "cult" they likely became part of by only imitating things they've seen from others

)(so then one comes along and brings up the things like, "Since they didn't regain their size until they were about fifty feet away from him, of course they'd lose, even Gohan would've in that case" and, "South Kaioshin being so weak proves the bulked up Buu's strength difference is insignificant to Kid Buu's showing he's stronger than Super Buu." ect. And the response is once again, "he said he'd lose" ect. which those were already to thus creating the endless cycle...). And it seems people can have very different views on how fights were going(the way Buu treated Gotenks like a punching bag when he quit messing around seemed like handing him his ass to me

).

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:37 am

Right now I'm seeing Xyex bring up logical points with examples and evidence, and this Metrite guy call him a Fanboy cultist because of it?

Okay okay okay, why don't you like...bring up some evidence before you call out trivial insults that have no bearing other than to degenerate the conversation and eventually the board? It's people like you who make VegettoEX hate these conversations.

I can deal with someone who disagree's with me - That is perfectly alright. Someone who calls me a culltist fanboy who makes up stupid crap for no reason to back my point? The best words to express what I feel would be "Go fuck yourself."

Even the ever so famous MFG population has a better perception of strength relations that this thread. This board is full of people who are really smart, have great things to say, and consitently post intelligently...until you get to strenght relations.

I guess I'll stop before I get more people pissed at me. Again, I don't care if you disagree, but don't call me or Xyex names for it. (Wait, since when did Xyex and I see eye-to-eye on something like this? Irony...)

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:22 am

Duo, I think hell h as frozen over. XD

Metrite, you know, your descriptions of me... sound a lot more like you than me. You're the one ignoring the points made, not me.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:25 am

'_' ;;

I've created a monster...

Post by **desirecampbell** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:52 am

Whoa... what happened here?

Metrite, if you've got a problem with Xyex's reasoning give your own proof. That part about Super Buu thashing Gotenks is a good point. Keep doing things like that.

Xyex, I think I remember Gotenks not being able to do any real damage to Super Buu (I can't remember if he fought Fat Buu) before he went SSj3. Also, it seems premature to think that he was SSj1 - he could've been SSj2, which would seem at least reasonable.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:05 am

desirecampbell wrote:Whoa... what happened here?

Xyex, I think I remember Gotenks not being able to do any real damage to Super Buu (I can't remember if he fought Fat Buu) before he went SSj3. Also, it seems premature to think that he was SSj1 - he could've been SSj2, which would seem at least reasonable.

That's a good point. Until he used Kamikaze Ghost, he couldn't really do anything. And he didn't get to fight Fat Buu at SSj1/2, either.