Stupid Question about "Mystic" Gohan

Metrite · Post by **Metrite** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:04 pm

Xyex wrote:Metrite, you know, your descriptions of me... sound a lot more like you than me. You're the one ignoring the points made, not me.

No, 'cause just what I said happened. I mentioned points that disagree with what you brought up(such as Gotenks did get his ass handed to him and a reason for that one line ect.). And I wasn't describing you in paticular(I just notice most who say things like that are people who just hung around certain others who did treat it like that until they did, too).

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:07 pm

Let's not forget that the Boo's are known, above all else, for toughness. Goku (manga-wise) had clearly surpassed Fat Boo by a significant margin but the body type that they have can make up for it with the way they take damage.

Ssj3 Gotenks easily could have totally surpassed Super Boo, but the Majin's body made it appear as though it was even. Remember that in the end, right before Gotenks lost the form, Boo was deformed, helpless, and terrified.

And Gotenks was only Ssj1 prior to that, remember.

-And Metrite, you should not be so hasty to call out as such next time. Thanks.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:17 pm

Metrite wrote:
Xyex wrote:Metrite, you know, your descriptions of me... sound a lot more like you than me. You're the one ignoring the points made, not me.
No, 'cause just what I said happened. I mentioned points that disagree with what you brought up(such as Gotenks did get his ass handed to him and a reason for that one line ect.). And I wasn't describing you in paticular(I just notice most who say things like that are people who just hung around certain others who did treat it like that until they did, too).

Just as a matter of record...

Metrite wrote: And there's a prime example of what I was talking about, one who just brings up the same things again, going out of their way to ignore anything they disagree with
Like you just did?

(it's basically spreading the "cult" they likely became part of by only imitating things they've seen from others )
Still havn't proven anything.

(so then one comes along and brings up the things like, "Since they didn't regain their size until they were about fifty feet away from him, of course they'd lose, even Gohan would've in that case"
No one's saying anything like that.

and, "South Kaioshin being so weak proves the bulked up Buu's strength difference is insignificant to Kid Buu's showing he's stronger than Super Buu." ect.
Again, we're not talking about that either.

And the response is once again, "he said he'd lose" ect.
"He said he'd lose" is probably the second most reputable fact we've got, the first being the sweat drop

which those were already to thus creating the endless cycle...).
I don't even understand what that sentence means

And it seems people can have very different views on how fights were going(the way Buu treated Gotenks like a punching bag when he quit messing around seemed like handing him his ass to me )
Actually that's a good point, that's why this is a forum instead an article. So we can discuss differing views on the subject. If one person thinks he was winning and another thinks he was losing we can discuss it and come to a conclusion based on all the evidence.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:28 pm

Xyex wrote:* SSJ3 Goku is strong enough to fight Fat Buu but would be killed easily by Super Buu. (stated)
* SSJ Gotenks is strong enough to fight Super Buu without getting his ass handed to him. (shown)

The things is, how do you define 'easily'? I'm sure if Super Buu wanted, he could take SSj3 Goku's or SSJ Gotenks' heads off with a punch.

From what I remember, Goku just says 'Buu will kill us if he go outside him without fusing'. That's rather vague, as it could mean:

1. SSj3 Goku beats the crap out of Buu, but is unable to finish him off, either with his own power draining or Buu's regeneration.
2. Goku fights evenly, but collapses from exhaustion.
3. Goku gets killed with a couple of hits.

Metrite · Post by **Metrite** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:42 pm

desirecampbell wrote:Like you just did?

No, because as you apparently didn't understand, the things I mentioned were things that have to do with that.

No one's saying anything like that.

It is one of the things that gives a reason for that one thing, though.

Again, we're not talking about that either.

It does relate in the discussions about the strength comparisons.

"He said he'd lose" is probably the second most reputable fact we've got, the first being the sweat drop

And so you apparently don't even know what I was referring to(likely since you didn't understand a previous point).

I don't even understand what that sentence means

Simple, it means what you just did would happen

(though it seems you just didn't quite get part of it).

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:47 pm

Here's my two cents:

Chibi Buu is said to be the strongest form of Buu, second only to Chibi+Kaioshin. I know it defies logic, but we still have to take that as canon. It's a plothole, so we'll just have to deal with it when taking things into consideration.

Since SSJ3 Goku at max is supposed to be enough to defeat Chibi Buu, who is stronger than Buu(+Gohan), than clearly SSJ3 Goku at max is significantly stronger than Gohan. However, SSJ3 Goku at max does not exist in the realm of the living, so really all we can argue is the SSJ3 Goku who fought Chibi Buu and started losing.

This, in my opinion, leads us to nowhere since we don't know if Gohan could fight Chibi Buu that long either. In the end, we're still left with too many unknowns. Buu+Gotenks+Piccolo adds nothing to the fight either, since he's an efficient fighter whereas Chibi is nothing but a bully with brute strength (proof = Vegeta not dieing right away).

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:05 pm

But that makes Goku stronger than Vegetto, and doesn't explain why Goku was pushing Fusions vs Super Gohan Buu, but refused it vs Kid Buu.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:07 pm

Rocketman wrote:But that makes Goku stronger than Vegetto, and doesn't explain why Goku was pushing Fusions vs Super Gohan Buu, but refused it vs Kid Buu.

Like I said, ignoring the major plothole created by Toriyama...

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:54 pm

It doesn't have to be a plothole, because sense can be made of it. There is a logical way to work it out to where it isn't plothole'd.

And "Chibi Boo is the strongest" is a dub-line exclusive. In the Manga, at least, the line is "The most Dangerous Boo." By that, it's easy to conclude that Kaioshin fears him for the fact that he has no restraints or mind, thus proven when he simply blows up Earth. "Supaa" Boo may have been much stronger, but he held himself back and was more in it for the fun. Chibi just wanted to blow crap up.

So I ask - Why would Chibi Boo be the strongest anyway? Super Boo had 2 absorptions, and at his peak, had...6. 6 Warriors in one isn't going to be weaker than a single part of him.

There is more logic to Dragonball than everyone thinks. Sure, there are a few plotholes, but this particular setup does add up properly, just sit down, open your mind, and toy around with it.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:28 pm

:: makes some popcorn, sits down, and watches the chaos unfold::

So basically, we're back where we were, without really adding more information.

SSj Kaboom wrote: Mystic Gohan (definitely) > SSj3 Goku,
SSj3 Goku ~ SSj3 Gotenks

Mystic Gohan's better than SSj3 Goku, who's probably about even (in terms of power) with SSj3 Gotenks.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:50 pm

If Ssj3 Goku had trouble with Boo (In the Anime) then why would have entrust Ssj Gotenks to be able to win?

Because he was in the same field of power as Ssj3 Goku. Now, I don't really know or think he was necessarily his superior in Ki, but I figure he was at least 90% as strong.

And if you toss in the Rosat, you get quite the boost.

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:23 pm

From the Japanese version of the anime:

{Kaiobito:} Are you sure you can defeat this Majin Buu? This is the most
powerful, dangerous Majin Buu!

So, in the anime, Chibi Buu is the most powerful. In the manga, Super Buu w/t Mystic Gohan, Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks is the most powerful. As mentioned elsewhere, they're two entirly different canons/universes. La la la...

Post by **desirecampbell** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:57 pm

Conan the SSJ wrote:From the Japanese version of the anime:

{Kaiobito:} Are you sure you can defeat this Majin Buu? This is the most
powerful, dangerous Majin Buu!

So, in the anime, Chibi Buu is the most powerful. In the manga, Super Buu w/t Mystic Gohan, Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks is the most powerful. As mentioned elsewhere, they're two entirly different canons/universes. La la la...

So, can we conclude that the difference in power between Super Buu (w/Gohan, Piccolo, Trunks, Goten) and Kid Buu is negligible?

So, so far we know:
>> SSj(probably)2 Vegetto is stronger than Super Buu (w/ Gohan, Piccolo, Trunks, Goten)
>> 'Mystic' Gohan stronger than Super Buu (w/ SSj3 Gotenks, Piccolo)
>> Super Buu (w/ Gohan, Piccolo, Trunks, Goten) is stronger than Super Buu (w/ SSj3 Gotenks, Piccolo) who is stronger than Super Buu (w/ Piccolo, Trunks, Goten) who is stronger than Super Buu (w/ Piccolo) who is stronger than Super Buu who is stronger than Fat Buu.

Do we know anything for sure about SSj3 Gotenks? He does some damage with the ghost kamikaze, but doesn't seem to be able to do much.

Another question: are there any hard facts on how Buu's strength is affected by absorbions? Does he just get stronger each time? Or is it more complicated, like an average of all the people absorbed averaged with his "pure" strength (as Kid Buu)?

Akira · Post by **Akira** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:35 pm

Huh, that's funny, didn't Kaioshin also say that Yakkon and Pui Pui were among the most feared creatures in the galaxy and all the saiyans should fight together? He was shocked to see the saiyans battle and to see thier power. He underestimated them and overestimated thier oposition.

Kaioshin still thinks fusion is necessary to defeat Buu, yet Goku is the first to crush his earing the second time they are offered to him, quickly followed by Vegeta who does the same thing. Vegeta says they will fight like true saiyans. I think I give Goku and Vegeta a LOT more credit in estimating someone's strength than I give Kaioshin.

Kaioshin also called Freeza nothing compared to himself, yet he says Pui Pui is a threat? Pui Pui was hardly anything compared to the likes of Freeza.

I will NEVER understand how it could be thought that Kid Buu is the strongest. The most dangerous, YES. The most crazy, YES. The quickest regeneration power and ki well with which to tap into, YES. all those statements are true. But powered up to maximum power stronger than the other forms of Buu, NO. Gohan Buu was the strongest. That was why Fusion was necessary to combat him.

Goku and Vegeta at Super Saiyan 2 could at least put up enough fight to survive against Kid Buu for awhile. When they fought Gohan Buu as Super Saiyan 2, he toyed with them and totally dominated them. They were no match whatsoever.

From the facts I have provided we see that Kaioshin's judgement of Power is not exactly trustworthy. Goku and Vegeta's power assessments are usually right on the money, so I for one am going to go with what they say.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:52 pm

Okay, so far we know:
>> SSj(probably)2 Vegetto is stronger than Super Buu (w/ Gohan, Piccolo, Trunks, Goten)
>> 'Mystic' Gohan stronger than Super Buu (w/ SSj3 Gotenks, Piccolo)
>> Super Buu (w/ Gohan, Piccolo, Trunks, Goten) is stronger than Kid Buu
>> Super Buu (w/ Gohan, Piccolo, Trunks, Goten) is stronger than Super Buu (w/ SSj3 Gotenks, Piccolo) who is stronger than Super Buu (w/ Piccolo, Trunks, Goten) who is stronger than Super Buu (w/ Piccolo) who is stronger than Super Buu who is stronger than Fat Buu.

Can we relate Kid Buu to Super Buu (w/ SSj3 Gotenks, Piccolo)?

Akira · Post by **Akira** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:15 pm

I don't know about all the this is stronger than that therefore this stuff but...

I know this:

>Majin Buu (kid) is the Base form

>Majin Buu (Fat) has some of the powers of the Kaioshins he absorbed, but he is also a bit slower to power up, slower to regenerate, slower to move for that matter. (than Kid Buu)

>Majin Buu split in two halves. His power was halved into two forms.
-Skinny Majin Buu (Evil) (50% of original Power)
-Fat Majin Buu (Good) (50% of original Power)

>Majin Buu (Super) Is the Evil reabsorbing the good half. His physical apearance is more lean and more atune to battle and ki sensing. It allows him to have the intellect and powers of the Kaioshins he absorbed, but not have all the downsides as well. (This form is most comparable to Kid Buu)

>Majin Buu (Piccolo) Is Super Buu with Piccolo as the most powerful absorbtion. Intellect and strength of Piccolo plus two saiyan boys.

>Majin Buu (Gotenks) Super Buu + Piccolo + Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks as the most dominant absorbtion. Easily able to knock Ultimate Gohan around.

>Majin Buu (Gohan) Super Buu + Gohan + Piccolo + Trunks + Goten - More than enouhg power to smack Super Saiyan 2 Goku and Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta around. Fusion was the only answer to combat this form of Buu. Easily the most powerful, in strength, intellect and skill.

>Majin Buu (Kid) - Minus all absorbtions, His regenerative power, speed and amount of ki are beyond all the other previous forms.

When I say amount of Ki, think the androids having unlimited Ki even though someone like say Ascended Saiyan Vegeta is technically stronger and more powerful with his Ki. Same here, Gohan Buu had a stronger ki, but less spirit energy. Kid Buu is the purest form, pure evil spirit energy and lots of it. He is the most dangerous because of this. His well of power to use is the deepest by far, but he was not the most powerful. Do you see what I am trying to say?

El_Diablo · Post by **El_Diablo** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:19 pm

Actually, the "Good" Boo got less than half of the power, since "Evil" Boo managed to knock him around easily. Also, I think Piccolo says that "Evil" Boo was stronger.

Akira · Post by **Akira** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:24 pm

Okay roughly half, that I am open to move my position on. Whatever they split and the point is they both had a fraction of the previous power. so Until Buu started absorbing Z warriors his powerups were not so astronomical that they made a huge difference.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:10 am

Akira confuses me

Okay, so far we know:
>> SSj(probably)2 Vegetto is stronger than Super Buu (w/ Gohan, Piccolo, Trunks, Goten)
>> Super Buu (w/ SSj3 Gotenks, Piccolo) stronger than 'Mystic' Gohan
>> Super Buu (w/ Gohan, Piccolo, Trunks, Goten) is stronger than Kid Buu
>> Super Buu (w/ Gohan, Piccolo, Trunks, Goten) is stronger than Super Buu (w/ SSj3 Gotenks, Piccolo) who is stronger than Super Buu (w/ Piccolo, Trunks, Goten) who is stronger than Super Buu (w/ Piccolo) who is stronger than Super Buu who is stronger than Fat Buu.

So, what about SSj3 Goku? He seemed confident enough to fight Kid Buu but not Super Buu (w/ Gohan, Piccolo, Trunks, Goten) - so can we put him in between there? Or is there any evidence that Goku wasn't as powerful as he thought?

SuperFusion · Post by **SuperFusion** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:27 am

desirecampbell wrote:Alright, I have to know... why do people think Gotenks was stronger than Goku? Gotenks apparently could've beaten Super Buu, but Goku said he wasn't strong enough? But wasn't Goku facing Super Buu after he had absorbed everyone, theus he was facing a much tougher enemy?

If I'm not mistaken, Goku and Vegeta pulled the pods to everyone off of Buu so he went back to being normal Super Buu.

Kanzenshuu

Stupid Question about "Mystic" Gohan

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