DBZ Broly Movie Confusion

[Saiya-jin]

I have heard numerous times on the internet that the first Brolly Movie could have never happened in the real story line because there was no time for it before the cell games. i'm not sure if this is in the original japanese or not, but didn't cell give them a few days to train before the tournement? It could have happened in between there couldn't it? Please shed some light on this for me, I'm not sure if I'm right or not.

[desirecampbell]

This has been discussed a lot - basically at had to have happened after Vegeta and Trunks trained inside the Hyperbolic Time Chamber the second time, but before Gohan turns SSj2 (and Goku dies). But that leaves only, like, a day before the Cell Games.

Also, we see Gohan going to school, which would contradict with the anime (though the manga doesn't say what happens in the last few days before the Cell Games).

Some, like me, pertain it could happen if Goku beat Cell at the Cell Games instead of handing it off to Gohan. Then everyone goes out and has a picnic, Krillin does a little karaoke (not little enough), and, well, you know the rest.

[Tsukento]

Though there's also the fact that Goku and Gohan were trying to retain the natural Super Saiyan form even when relaxing while they wait for the Cell Games. Though Goku and Gohan were in their normal states during the movie.

[Conan the SSJ]

Considering everyone in movie 8 were taking turns in the Room of Spirit and Time, Goku spent the last 6 or so days of peace collecting the dragonballs, and Goku and Gohan were fully trained to stay in SSJ mode even while they were sleeping, I highly doubt movie 8 could have taken place during the 10 days of peace. It was awesome getting to see Tao-Pai-Pai make a couple returns though, it was hilarious getting to see him have one more encounter with Goku (only Goku could put differences aside and a smile on his face after coming face to face with a past foe).

[Eclipse]

At the very best, I'd say it was during the week of training. Most likely in the last few days. Plus, thinking that the Earth would blow up soon, Chi-Chi most likely wanted Gohan to get some quick education .

Never mind, that came out all wrong..

[Xyex]

This has been discussed a lot - basically at had to have happened after Vegeta and Trunks trained inside the Hyperbolic Time Chamber the second time, but before Gohan turns SSj2 (and Goku dies). But that leaves only, like, a day before the Cell Games.

Nothing says it had to have happened after the Cell Games. My thought is that it occured in an AU where Vegeta's Final Flash against Perfect Cell incinerated him. If Cell hadn't slipped to the side of that blast it would have ripped off everything from the knees up, at the least.

So, Vegeta just obliterated Cell. Gohan and Goku come out of the RoSaT to find out Cell is dead and thus, they revert to normal. A few days later movie 8 happens.

[Duo]

Like all movies, it is impossible to fit it into the storyline, nor is it meant to. This seems to be the long lost fact to a lot of fans - The Movies have no purpose nor intention of being in the storyline at any point in any way, shape, or form.

However, it's not that hard to pinpoint the line of thought Toei had when they extracted the characters for the movie. Unfortunately, I seem to be one out of one people to have deduced this. The two most common mind sets are...

Post-RoSaT
To believe it occured after the Saiyans training was finished and they were waiting for the Cell game. (This generates the plothole of Goku and Gohan not being Ssj all the time, and Gohan not being the strongest warrior.)

Pre-RoSaT
To believe that it occured prior to the Saiyans training. (This generates the plothole of Gohan being Super Saiyan and Trunks having Long hair.)

Of course, these plotholes don't have to exist. People, for some reason, don't think it was possible for 2 of the Saiyans to be extracted at a mid-point in their training.

I mean, people accept the idea of people being brought from the afterlife, the other side of the galaxy, and various other plotholes. But out of the RoSaT? "NEVER!!" they say. How...annoying.

My conclusion?

Mid-RoSaT

Specifically, about the time Trunks was fighting Cell. At this point, Gohan was a Super Saiyan, but they had not begun trying to sustain the state indefinately. But, given the amount of training he had managed so far, Goku (at Ssj) could be about as strong as Trunks and Vegeta (Ssj).

This covers all the plotholes. This shows why everyone is in the relatively same range of power, why Trunks had long hair, why Goku and Gohan weren't Ssj, why Gohan wasn't the strongest warrior, etc...

Also, if you look to Movie 10, Gohan makes the comment "And I'm supposed to have powered up considerably since back then!"

He's saying that he's much stronger than the last time he fought Broli. How is this possible, if he was supposed to be weaker then when he fought Cell?

Again, this plothole is fixed.


So if you must try to fit the movie into the plotline, that is where it goes.

[Tsukento]

Actually, Gohan thought he had gotten much stronger. The problem was that Broli also became much stronger. Not to mention, Gohan wasn't a Super Saiyan 2 when he fought Broli the last time. This could be what he was referencing to.

The first Broli movie premiered around the time where Satan was going to fight Cell in the Cell Games. It's definately rather hard to try to fit that in there. Especially since Gohan's clearly shown he can turn Super Saiyan in the movie. Because of this, it nulls out that the movie occured before his training in the RoSaT and achieving the Super Saiyan level, let alone the natural state.

If I remember correctly, Goku and Gohan stayed there until they achieved the natural state. Since Goku was already in the room once before, he couldn't have left and came back again.

As you mentioned earlier, the movies aren't meant to tie into the plot. They're simply there for entertainment purposes and appear to be just an alternate universe-like story for each movie.

[Saiya-jin]

Thank you guys for sheeding a little light on the subject for me.

[Duo]

Actually, Gohan thought he had gotten much stronger. The problem was that Broli also became much stronger. Not to mention, Gohan wasn't a Super Saiyan 2 when he fought Broli the last time. This could be what he was referencing to.

The first Broli movie premiered around the time where Satan was going to fight Cell in the Cell Games. It's definately rather hard to try to fit that in there. Especially since Gohan's clearly shown he can turn Super Saiyan in the movie. Because of this, it nulls out that the movie occured before his training in the RoSaT and achieving the Super Saiyan level, let alone the natural state.

If I remember correctly, Goku and Gohan stayed there until they achieved the natural state. Since Goku was already in the room once before, he couldn't have left and came back again.

As you mentioned earlier, the movies aren't meant to tie into the plot. They're simply there for entertainment purposes and appear to be just an alternate universe-like story for each movie.

Uh...Gohan wasn't Ssj2 in Movie 10.

I don't understand why you and others think it's out of the question for Toei to have pulled them out during training. You'll accept the idea of pulling them from the afterlife, across the galaxy, and tons of other weird scenario's. Why is pulling them out of the RoSaT so fricken taboo?!

[Tsukento]

I don't ever recall saying any other way was acceptable. >_> I clearly said that none of the movies really fit in with the story and they're simply there for entertainment values. Sorta like an alternate universe like story.

In regards to Super Saiyan 2, I was talking about how Gohan could be suggesting he got stronger the last time he fought Broli what with his training and having gone Super Saiyan 2 against Cell. At that point, it wasn't made completely aware that Gohan's power had dropped from the years of peace. There's also the factor of Broli having gained an increase of power.

[Duo]

I misread a bit, my bad.

However, Broli was still injured from his battle with Kakarrot and had been in suspending animation for 7 years. He wouldn't have increased in power, and Gohan makes a comment in Movie 10 suggesting the Broli's power is the same as before.

And this tidbit comes from endless months of debating on MFG. A good and bad thing.

[Conan the SSJ]

Regarding Gohan using SSJ2 in movie 10, just because there wasn't blue lightning, don't assume he wasn't in the form. His hair was in a slightly longer stance and had one long bang in comparison to his SSJ1 form he uses in the 25th Budokai training episodes. Gohan even mentions in a thinking monolouge before transforming that he has his own upgrade ready to show Broly. Meh, why do I even discuss this, the whole SSJ2 issue in the anime is just far too confusing as it is.

[Duo]

Regarding Gohan using SSJ2 in movie 10, just because there wasn't blue lightning, don't assume he wasn't in the form. His hair was in a slightly longer stance and had one long bang in comparison to his SSJ1 form he uses in the 25th Budokai training episodes. Gohan even mentions in a thinking monolouge before transforming that he has his own upgrade ready to show Broly. Meh, why do I even discuss this, the whole SSJ2 issue in the anime is just far too confusing as it is.

Though I completely agree on that last part, I'm very adamant about this issue because I over-analyze way too much for my or anyone elses good.

At the rough point one might place the movie in the story, if such were possible, Teen Gohan had not yet ever shown the ability to use Ssj2. All that was known about his power was that he could so Ssj and he had lost power since the battle with Cell.

But more importantly, Ssj2 had only been seen used twice by this point. Cell and Gohan. Neither could just go straight to that level either, 2 clear ascensions had to be shown. This remained until Goku confronted Boo, so it's very doubtful that Toei would introduce such a simple rise into Ssj2 if it had never been done like that before, and only been seen twice.

Which ties to my point that Gohan was never shown transforming twice. He powered up once, and began fighting.

And Gohan's hair looks the same in every form, far as I'm concerned.

[Xyex]

Regarding Gohan using SSJ2 in movie 10, just because there wasn't blue lightning, don't assume he wasn't in the form. His hair was in a slightly longer stance and had one long bang in comparison to his SSJ1 form he uses in the 25th Budokai training episodes. Gohan even mentions in a thinking monolouge before transforming that he has his own upgrade ready to show Broly. Meh, why do I even discuss this, the whole SSJ2 issue in the anime is just far too confusing as it is.

Though I completely agree on that last part, I'm very adamant about this issue because I over-analyze way too much for my or anyone elses good.

At the rough point one might place the movie in the story, if such were possible, Teen Gohan had not yet ever shown the ability to use Ssj2. All that was known about his power was that he could so Ssj and he had lost power since the battle with Cell.

But more importantly, Ssj2 had only been seen used twice by this point. Cell and Gohan. Neither could just go straight to that level either, 2 clear ascensions had to be shown. This remained until Goku confronted Boo, so it's very doubtful that Toei would introduce such a simple rise into Ssj2 if it had never been done like that before, and only been seen twice.

Which ties to my point that Gohan was never shown transforming twice. He powered up once, and began fighting.

And Gohan's hair looks the same in every form, far as I'm concerned.

There would have been no reason for Toei to assume that it would not be possible for Gohan to transform SSJ2 as easily as they could all reach SSJ. So that entire arguement is null.

Now, to get back to the general point of the topic...

I don't understand why you and others think it's out of the question for Toei to have pulled them out during training. You'll accept the idea of pulling them from the afterlife, across the galaxy, and tons of other weird scenario's. Why is pulling them out of the RoSaT so fricken taboo?!

Because most people, myself included, like to have a world where these movies can occur. That requires listing the events that happend the same in the movie-universe and then finding the 'divergence point' between it and the series. Explain how/why Gohan and Goku would emerge from the RoSaT in mid training, before getting used to the SSJ form, and you have a viable universe.

When Toei made the movies they were designed to fit with exactly where the anime was in it's progress. So it is 100% that Goku and Gohan are mid RoSaT training. Still, I like to have a world and set-up into a movie, and them emerging mid RoSaT for no reason just dosen't work for that.

[Duo]

Explain to me how Tenshinhan, Chaozu, Yamcha, and Piccolo all came back from the dead, and how Gohan, Kuririn, and Goku came back from Namek.

And my point is far from null, you simply don't choose to see.