Fan-Made Termonology

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:34 am

To me, any name that doesn't originate from the Manga, Anime, or Daizenshuu qualifies as "Fan Made".

This included Video Games, various Dubs, Action Figures, what some guy said last week, and what you see on various sites and message boards.

So, does anyone have anything real new or useful to offer regarding "Supaa Saiya'jin Furu Pawaa" and "Supaa Kanzentai Seru"?

If not, I'll try to think up some other Fan terms (les' someone else does first, which I have no problems with.)

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:15 am

VegettoEX wrote:
The Lecherous Muten Roshi wrote:Is "Zenkai" really considered a fan term? Because the word Zenkai was used in the first Japanese outro for Dragon Ball Z.

VegettoEX wrote:For a detailed explanation of how "zenkai" is (mostly-incorrectly) used, please read:

http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.php?p=56781

Oh, sorry. I missed that.

Dayspring wrote:Why is everybody using Funi's dub and merchandise as canon these last few days?

Well, I guess you could consider them official sources. I wouldn't call them "canon", but I say it at least counts when determining what's "official" and what's a "fan-term".

Duo wrote:To me, any name that doesn't originate from the Manga, Anime, or Daizenshuu qualifies as "Fan Made".

This included Video Games, various Dubs, Action Figures, what some guy said last week, and what you see on various sites and message boards.

I know where you're coming from, but when it comes to names for otherwise unnamed characters, I'd say video games and action figures are a good was of assigning a name that is somewhat official even if it was used by fans before it was used in official context.

I guess I'm just saying I'd rather use words like "Mystic Gohan" and "Ultimate Gohan" than something that hasn't been used in any official context. Like Uber Gohan or something.

Adamant · Post by **Adamant** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:49 am

Xyex wrote: As for "Ultra" it makes sense. It's a form beyond that of Super, and Ultra is considered greater than Super. As for the abrevations, I have heard people use "Ultra Saiya-jin" but never actually "Ultra Super Saiya-jin" when talking about that form. Which has always led me to wonder why we use USSJ instead of just USJ....

"Ultra Saiya-jin" is used in the German (I think) and Danish manga. Therre is no distinction made between "USSJ" and "USSJ2", and later on, they tell us that SSJ2 is called Ultra Saiya-jin as well.

Timo · Post by **Timo** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:02 am

That's right. Those idiots from Carlsen Comics "translate" SSJ2 as "Ultra Saiyajin" (no difference between this "beyond SSJ" level which Trunks did reach and the actually SSJ2) and SSJ3 as "Mega Saiyajin". -_-

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:31 am

I totally still need to know about "Super Perfect Cell" if anyone has details to offer.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:43 am

Duo wrote:I totally still need to know about "Super Perfect Cell" if anyone has details to offer.

To be honest, I just figured the daizex transformation guide used info from one of the other daizenshuu. SP Cell comes from "Kanzentai Cell", which may or may not be official.

kvon · Post by **kvon** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:21 am

Dayspring wrote:
Duo wrote:I totally still need to know about "Super Perfect Cell" if anyone has details to offer.
To be honest, I just figured the daizex transformation guide used info from one of the other daizenshuu. SP Cell comes from "Kanzentai Cell", which may or may not be official.

Actually, in Dragon Ball Z3 (Japanese Budokai 3), they used chou kanzentai for the name of Cell's final transformation, thus translated to English as super perfect form. Whether or not it's official, it's certain that these terms were not thought up by regular fans.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:44 pm

Kanzentai is an official term (http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/61/1711bt.jpg from kanzentai.com), but Cell never calls him self anything different after he regenerates from his explosion. At least, not in the manga.

Saiya-jin · Post by **Saiya-jin** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:56 pm

Uhhh..could someone translate that please?

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:15 pm

"If...If only...If Only I could attain completion...!!!"

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:16 pm

It just says something about becoming perfect (I can't see it all!).

Edit-Yeah, Duo got it >_<

SpaceKappa · Post by **SpaceKappa** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:42 pm

Well, the point of the image being posted is to prove that "kanzentai" is an official term, and it's in there.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:39 pm

Mizugi wrote:Well, the point of the image being posted is to prove that "kanzentai" is an official term, and it's in there.

I know that "Kanzentai" (which means perfect) isn't any sort of fan term. I'm referring to "Super Perfect Cell." when referencing Cell after coming back from self-destruction and having all the traits of a Super Saiya'jin 2.

More or less, I'm asking if the Daizenshuu uses that term for him, heh heh.

YouTube · Post by **Hujio** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:11 pm

Kanzentai.com wrote:Kanzentai / 完全体 (kan-zen-tai)
This term is generally translated as "perfection". The first word "kanzen" (完全) meaning "perfect" or "complete" is made up of the two kanji, "kan" (完) meaning "perfect", and "zen" (全) meaning "whole". The final kanji "tai" (体) generally means a body, susbstance, or object of any kind. So more specifically, the term "kanzentai" means "a perfect object" although since it's not specific about what it's referring to, it's concluded that the best English translation is just "perfection" in general.

The Daizenshuu uses the term 'kanzentai' to describe Cell in his completely developed form, after he's absorbed both Android 17 and 18. No term is actually given when Cell exhibits traits of a Super Saiya-jin 2.

Mike D · Post by **Mike D** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:21 pm

What about "False Super Saiyan"? Even if it were a real term (is it?) then it wouldn't be "false" but "Pre-Super Saiyan". And another thing that bothers me is that when guides refer to this "stage" they only use Movie 4.

What about when Goku and Pikuhan fought together in Hell. Goku's form was similar to Movie 4.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:48 pm

Mike D wrote:What about "False Super Saiyan"? Even if it were a real term (is it?) then it wouldn't be "false" but "Pre-Super Saiyan".

The Daizenshuu EX Transformations Guide wrote:One of the most interesting stages to appear is actually one that stems from a single movie, placing it outside of the normal, canon continuity. This "Quasi-Super Saiyan" is actually never named in the movie; instead, it comes from daizenshuu # 7. ("Giji" means "false" or "pseudo-" or "quasi-".) This is more-or-less an instance of Toei covering its own mistake by calling it a "new form," but it is different enough from any of the other Saiyan forms to warrant its own entry.

Tah-da~.

Mike D wrote:And another thing that bothers me is that when guides refer to this "stage" they only use Movie 4.

What about when Goku and Pikuhan fought together in Hell. Goku's form was similar to Movie 4.

It may be that because there's no documentation on this particular instance (and if there is, it's overlooked for a good reason, I'm sure

). It's just filler in the TV series, which means it gets slightly less attention than even the movies (which are at least important stand-alone items). I dunno. It's hard to describe.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:10 pm

Thanks Hujio!

I'm out of questions...

Akira · Post by **Akira** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:01 am

The Goku/Pikkon fight was filler. Those who dismiss it as such, do so now. Those who want some sort of explanation read on.

The form used in movie 4 is not used at the Heaven's Tournament to my knowledge. The only thing used there that is not used anywhere else is Goku using Kaioken while a Super Saiyan. This is never seen anywhere else in the series. I seriously doubt it to be possible for Goku to use Kaioken while a Super Saiyan and not blow himself up when alive. He nearly did it to his normal self when using Kaioken x4 against Vegeta the first time around.

The only things that seem to support this as being possible is two points:
-Goku was already at Maximum power of Super Saiyan 1 and on the verge of Super Saiyan 2.
-Goku was dead, allowing for faster power gains and pressing the body farther than possible when alive.

You could build a whole theory around this being some sort of training method for extending his power sooner by carefully using Kaioken with Super Saiyan to press his upper limits and move towards Super Saiyan 3 in just seven years. There is no evidence for or against this, but it is a neat idea nonetheless.

In conclusion though, it is not the form used in Movie 4 [That is unique to that movie alone], but it is something best just left alone as there are too many what-ifs involved.

Kanzenshuu

Fan-Made Termonology

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