Majin Buu Battle Questions

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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Majin Buu Battle Questions

Post by geektacular » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:24 pm

I'm a new DB/Z/GT fan as of 2012, so I often have a lot of questions about different parts of the show...so what better place to ask than the Kanzenshuu forums!

I just finished watching this for the first time, so these are all about the Majin/Kid Buu fight...

1) If Kid Buu is so easily drawn to high power levels (hence why he chose to leave Krillin & Yamcha alone and go to Goku & Vegeta instead), then why did he completely ignore Goku's enormous spirit bomb and choose to beat down a barely alive Vegeta instead? I guess the bigger question is whether or not the energy found within something like a Spirit Bomb is detectable by beings with the ability to sense energy?

2) Is it explained exactly why/how the "Evil Buu" was expelled from Majin Buu's body? I know that he was expelled during a fit of rage and materialized out of the steam, but I don't really get why that happened...I don't remember them explaining how that actually was possible? After learning about his internal systems when Goku & Vegeta were inside of him later, even that doesn't appear to explain how it worked. Maybe if he escaped with the steam like they did it would make sense, but he materialized out of the steam itself, if I saw it correctly...so I'm not sure?

3) I don't recall there being a prerequisite for needing people to raise their arms up to give energy for a Spirit Bomb? In the past, didn't Goku just take the energy from all the living things without needing them to do anything specific?

Those were just a couple questions that popped up as I was watching...otherwise I liked the whole Buu arc quite a bit! I did feel like Buu's backstory was slightly lacking vs. Cell or Frieza, but still enjoyable. I think it's worth watching just for Bee! :)
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Re: Majin Buu Battle Questions

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:34 pm

geektacular wrote:1) If Kid Buu is so easily drawn to high power levels (hence why he chose to leave Krillin & Yamcha alone and go to Goku & Vegeta instead), then why did he completely ignore Goku's enormous spirit bomb and choose to beat down a barely alive Vegeta instead? I guess the bigger question is whether or not the energy found within something like a Spirit Bomb is detectable by beings with the ability to sense energy?
Boo was stupid. He did noticed the Genki Dama's dangerous power, but Vegeta got in the way. So Boo decided to kick Vegeta's ass because he likes doing it.

geektacular wrote:2) Is it explained exactly why/how the "Evil Buu" was expelled from Majin Buu's body? I know that he was expelled during a fit of rage and materialized out of the steam, but I don't really get why that happened...I don't remember them explaining how that actually was possible? After learning about his internal systems when Goku & Vegeta were inside of him later, even that doesn't appear to explain how it worked. Maybe if he escaped with the steam like they did it would make sense, but he materialized out of the steam itself, if I saw it correctly...so I'm not sure?
Boo is a magical being. He just got very very angry, and for some reason, he expelled all of his evil, and lost the majority of his power. There is not an explanation, it just happened.
geektacular wrote:3) I don't recall there being a prerequisite for needing people to raise their arms up to give energy for a Spirit Bomb? In the past, didn't Goku just take the energy from all the living things without needing them to do anything specific?
In the past, Goku created a normal Genki Dama, which was taking only a bit of everyone's genki. However, against Boo, he made a Super Genki Dama, which was taking all of one's genki, which is why they had to raise their hands.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Majin Buu Battle Questions

Post by geektacular » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:40 pm

Hehe, thanks DBZGTKOSDH, I like your answers! I guess I didn't consider that Buu may have just been blinded my anger and is not the most strategic fighter. Actually, now that I think about it, his immense power and ability to instantly regenerate probably makes him a terrible strategist, mostly because he didn't really have to use a strategy. He could get blown up a thousand times (in a normal fashion) and just regenerate, so he didn't really have to be careful, I suppose...
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Re: Majin Buu Battle Questions

Post by InfernalVegito » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:16 pm

Genkidama is the plot device for victory. Every villain is presented as too retarded to evade it when confronted with it, except Vegeta. But I am talking about the huge Genkidamas.
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Re: Majin Buu Battle Questions

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:19 pm

InfernalVegito wrote:Genkidama is the plot device for victory. Every villain is presented as too retarded to evade it when confronted with it, except Vegeta. But I am talking about the huge Genkidamas.
Freeza did try to stop it, but it was too late for him when Goku sent it towards him.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Majin Buu Battle Questions

Post by Herms » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:18 pm

geektacular wrote:1) If Kid Buu is so easily drawn to high power levels (hence why he chose to leave Krillin & Yamcha alone and go to Goku & Vegeta instead), then why did he completely ignore Goku's enormous spirit bomb and choose to beat down a barely alive Vegeta instead? I guess the bigger question is whether or not the energy found within something like a Spirit Bomb is detectable by beings with the ability to sense energy?
Well (and here's something you'll probably be hearing a lot of from now on) the scene where Boo messes about with Yamcha and the others was added into the anime to stretch things out a bit. In the manga Boo just warps straight to Goku and Vegeta following Earth's explosion. So if the logic at work in the scene with Boo vs Yamcha and co. seems different than the logic at work in the scene with Boo and the Spirit Ball, it might be because the original version of the story only contained the latter scene. There's a number of contradictions caused by the scenes added for the TV version, though the original manga has contradictions of its own.
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Re: Majin Buu Battle Questions

Post by InfernalVegito » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:30 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
InfernalVegito wrote:Genkidama is the plot device for victory. Every villain is presented as too retarded to evade it when confronted with it, except Vegeta. But I am talking about the huge Genkidamas.
Freeza did try to stop it, but it was too late for him when Goku sent it towards him.
And this is what I mean with retarded. He could have just teleported into orbit or whatever.
BT3 off meds | The final fight

Ah, the Alpha and the Omega. As all life was created from Chaos...so shall it be DESTROYED!!!

The wails of machines | Singing cold harmony | Shifting air upward | Entranced by the breeze | Light pours like blood | Into a cosmic sea | Of stars crystallized | In a frozen symphony

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Re: Majin Buu Battle Questions

Post by Bussani » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:32 pm

geektacular wrote:2) Is it explained exactly why/how the "Evil Buu" was expelled from Majin Buu's body? I know that he was expelled during a fit of rage and materialized out of the steam, but I don't really get why that happened...I don't remember them explaining how that actually was possible? After learning about his internal systems when Goku & Vegeta were inside of him later, even that doesn't appear to explain how it worked. Maybe if he escaped with the steam like they did it would make sense, but he materialized out of the steam itself, if I saw it correctly...so I'm not sure?
It actually seems quite similar to how the Nameless Namekian found a way to expel the evil from his own heart, only for that evil to take physical form and become Piccolo Daimao--which was a completely unintended side effect.

How does it work? I'unno. How does Gotenks make exploding ghosts out of his ki? Spiritual power can do strange things.
3) I don't recall there being a prerequisite for needing people to raise their arms up to give energy for a Spirit Bomb? In the past, didn't Goku just take the energy from all the living things without needing them to do anything specific?
DBZGTKOSDH already covered this, but I thought I'd post the Daizenshuu entries on the two versions of the technique to show what the differences are:
Genki-Dama [Spirit Ball]
First Appearance: Chapter 212
Category: ki manipulation
People: Son Goku
Special Characteristics: The Genki-Dama is a technique that gathers the energy held by grass and trees, humans and animals, objects and the atmosphere, and then fires it. A Genki-Dama gathered from only Kaio Planet had the destructive power to smash a super-speed brick. From this, in the case of a Genki-Dama made on Earth, if you consider the Earth’s size plus the ability to make energy from the sun your ally, it would certainly have the force to destroy a planet. However, it has the weakness that it makes you defenseless until fired. (Daizenshuu 2, p.211/Daizenshuu 4, p.111)

Super
First Appearance: Chapter 514
People: Son Goku
Special Characteristics: A Genki-Dama made by asking everyone on Earth to donate their ki, in order to defeat Majin Buu (pure). Launched with the peoples’ prayers, it has immeasurable destructive power (Daizenshuu 2, p.217).
Anime: This is the Super Genki-Dama that destroyed Majin Buu. As he gathered ki, Goku senses who sent each bit based on its ambience.
Apparently, to take more than a tiny amount of genki from someone, you need their permission. It needs to be donated willingly.
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Re: Majin Buu Battle Questions

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:34 pm

InfernalVegito wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
InfernalVegito wrote:Genkidama is the plot device for victory. Every villain is presented as too retarded to evade it when confronted with it, except Vegeta. But I am talking about the huge Genkidamas.
Freeza did try to stop it, but it was too late for him when Goku sent it towards him.
And this is what I mean with retarded. He could have just teleported into orbit or whatever.
What? Freeza can't teleport.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Majin Buu Battle Questions

Post by InfernalVegito » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:43 pm

Of course he can't. I just use teleport to refer to extremely fast movement for the lack of a better word. He could have just dashed away.
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Re: Majin Buu Battle Questions

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:49 pm

InfernalVegito wrote:Of course he can't. I just use teleport to refer to extremely fast movement for the lack of a better word. He could have just dashed away.
Watch the scene again. Freeza was about to destroy Namek, when he suddenly saw the Genki Dama right behind him. He didn't have time to dodge it.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Majin Buu Battle Questions

Post by geektacular » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:54 pm

Thanks for the in-depth answer, Bussani! I suppose spiritual power, with intent, does have a bit of a precedence in the DB universe to manifest physically, so I guess it can just be chalked up to that, as you described. And yeah, I guess it makes sense that the arm raising is more or less just "permission" or "offering" their energy, vs. Goku just skimming a little off the top for a smaller spirit bomb.

And thanks to Herms for the manga info...I haven't read it yet, so that's a perfectly reasonable idea, that they just kind of added that part into the anime without being overly conscious of Buu's logic in that case. Kid Buu never really struck me as a villain who cared about seeking out high-powered fighters to battle, unlike someone like Cell. Kid Buu seemed more about unadulterated destruction, so I think that's why it seemed strange that he would care about it in that particular scenario and not really any other time.
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Re: Majin Buu Battle Questions

Post by InfernalVegito » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:55 pm

That doesn't look to me like that at all. They are so ungodly fast and then he just gets pushed to the ground by it? Nah. Maybe he was under schock, okay, but he could have at least tried to escape it. Not very believable.
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Ah, the Alpha and the Omega. As all life was created from Chaos...so shall it be DESTROYED!!!

The wails of machines | Singing cold harmony | Shifting air upward | Entranced by the breeze | Light pours like blood | Into a cosmic sea | Of stars crystallized | In a frozen symphony

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Re: Majin Buu Battle Questions

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:45 pm

InfernalVegito wrote:That doesn't look to me like that at all. They are so ungodly fast and then he just gets pushed to the ground by it? Nah. Maybe he was under schock, okay, but he could have at least tried to escape it. Not very believable.
I guess he was shocked and couldn't think properly, but still, if you check the manga you will see that Freeza really didn't have time to dodge it. It's not like he can move at light speed.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Majin Buu Battle Questions

Post by Herms » Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:08 pm

@geektacular: I'd definitely recommend checking out the manga sometime. The anime's great when the animators are at the top of their game, and voice acting and music are a nice plus, but overall I think the manga is a much better presentation of the story, with quicker pacing, consistently good art work, and fewer plot holes.
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Re: Majin Buu Battle Questions

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:47 pm

Herms wrote:@geektacular: I'd definitely recommend checking out the manga sometime. The anime's great when the animators are at the top of their game, and voice acting and music are a nice plus, but overall I think the manga is a much better presentation of the story, with quicker pacing, consistently good art work, and fewer plot holes.
Although I think the overall Majin Boo Saga was improved by the anime, except the plot-holes.
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DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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