Why remove the filler? (Kai)

[Fizzer]

Funnily enough, if Kai actually did completely remove all the filler, each episode would probably only be about 3 - 3 1/2 minutes per Manga chapter.

I made a concept video as an example. This is Chapter 331 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQorv4NJtaE

And by doing some calculations, you could practically cut the Saiyan - Cell Arcs all down to just 28 episodes.

That was pretty good. I think especially for fights (or battles made up of a series of "fights") that go on for many chapters this sort of thing could work really well.

[Gonstead]

And just because I felt like it, here are Chapter's 332 and 333.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho_G54VIp7Q - 332

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIz4diy9Ly8 - 333

[Bussani]

I don't see how pacing is even relevant here. You don't have to remove an entire story part because it has some slow pacing. Just speed it up, but let it happen.

That would still change the flow of the story. I like how the manga flows from one arc to the next. I don't need (nor want, frankly) the likes of Fake Namek.

Gohan's training adventures are removed. Goku's visit to Hell and Snake Princess the same. Fake Namek the same. These are events that happen in the story.

They're events that happened in the adaptation, Dragon Ball Z. There's no reason for other adaptations of that original work to include them. They were designed to fill time, and that was no longer necessary.

[Fizzer]

And just because I felt like it, here are Chapter's 332 and 333.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho_G54VIp7Q - 332

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIz4diy9Ly8 - 333

I really like these. For a while I've been thinking on-and-off about trying to make the story arcs into single feature-length films, as a sort of experimental fan-reboot, but I never do it because I don't have very much time and any one of those would be a really big job. These videos really make me think it would be possible though

[Gonstead]

Well, you might have just given me an inspiration for possibly taking on a project like that in the future.

[matt0044]

Well, you might have just given me an inspiration for possibly taking on a project like that in the future.

It'd be like the compilation movie trilogies of Gundam.

[linkdude20002001]

So, why exactly did they decide to delete everything that was originally filler? Is there any official word about how and why they arrived at this decision? Why did it matter what was and wasn't filler?

They said they wanted to "stay as close as possible to the manga". But why...? Filler is already a part of DB and what the previous generation grew up with. Out of respect for the original author? Would he really care?

I just don't understand this mentality. Just why is filler automatically bad, even when it's good?

Removing filler, and it being in HD: those were the two things that made Kai a "new show". There was the new music too, but that has since been replaced with the old music, and either way it wasn't one of their selling points from what I remember. Kai simply was "an HD 'Toriyama cut' of DBZ".

I don't understand why you'd think removing filler is a bad thing... It's not like Dragon Ball Z is going anywhere. If they were to keep in the filler, then they probably wouldn't've bothered re-recording the dialogue, and then it simply would've been an HD release of DBZ. Removing the filler is the entire point of what Kai is.

If Kai had say been a new animated adaption of Dragon Ball like it should have been (and started from the first chapter like it should have done), then you can't seriously expect them to purposefully re-do the filler. Again, that would defeat the purpose. If you want to watch the original animated adaptions, then go watch DB and DBZ.

There really is a lot of filler... If they just made each chapter into a part of an episode (part A and part B), then the 519 chapters could have been animated into 260 episodes. But thanks to filler, that ended up being 444 episodes; 184 more than needed.

[penguintruth]

All filler is not bad because it is filler. 99% of it is bad simply because it is fucking terrible.

Now that I think of it, that's a good point. But even some of the better filler is still an obstacle, though.

[Cold Skin]

To answer your question, a simple sentence would say it all: because it's "filler". By definition it is not part of the story as you seem to believe, it is intruding parts that were made out of necessity (so that the anime would not go further than the manga). If they had the choice back then - meaning if for some reason the manga was published on a much faster, superhuman speed or was already completely published by the time they did the anime), they likely would have made almost none of them (since some rare, short filler moments or replies are likely deliberate, meant to pad out some elements they judge was too quickly overviewed in the manga, such as having a few additionnal lines/thoughts to explain a situation).

Don't forget that Dragon Ball Z is not the original story, so you can't say Dragon Ball Kai "butchered the original by cutting parts of the story from it": it's actually Dragonball - the manga - that is the original, meaning Dragon Ball Kai got much closer to it by cutting what was just meant to buy some time but was always something unwanted even by the staff - who just tried to make the best out of this necessity. In the end, Kai is the truest anime representation of the story filler-wise, but still couldn't remove enough fillers to make it a 100% good representation of the actual story. It actually happens that it's not that too much fillers were cut to make it "the original story", it's that there was still not enough fillers cut - again due to time/budget/technical constraints - to make it "the original story", but it's at least MUCH closer to it.

You may think that those fillers are to the franchise what DLC add-ons are to video games, something that completes even more the adventure. It's not, a story add-on is something decided and wanted by the original author/staff as something they deliberately choose to add because they feel it can offer more. Fillers in Dragon Ball Z were generally not a choice to make things better, but a necessity to catch up for a problem that had to be camouflaged for the better.
In the end, your question sounds a bit like when a video game shows a "loading" screen or slows down the action because there are too many elements on screen: you ask "why would a new version cut the lowered framerate that appeared at moments?! It was part of the game!". Answer: because it was never wanted even by the staff, it was only a requirement due to limitations at the time to give time for the hardware to catch up - unfortunately by slowing down / making a stop in the pace -, a requirement that has no reason to exist anymore when the work is rebuilt in more comfortable conditions and with a stronger basis.

In your vision, it might be:
Dragon Ball Z - Original. Dragon Ball Kai - Way too fast.
The truth incorporates the manga version as the original, and is more like:
Dragonball (Manga) - Original. Dragon Ball Z - Way too slow. Dragon Ball Kai - A little too slow.

Of course, you can love all the filler adventures, but the concept with Kai was "offer a version closer to the original", and fillers are not part of the original (the manga), meaning Kai is a success in cutting down most of it and bringing it closer to the original: you've gone from "Way too slow" to "A little too slow".
If you don't like that concept, then you always have the original Dragon Ball Z and you can enjoy all the fillers, which may be good sometimes but just didn't fit with the concept chosen for the refreshed version.

[DBZAOTA482]

Dragonball - Original. Dragon Ball Z - Way too slow. Dragon Ball Kai - A little too slow.

The initial show wasn't that much faster paced than the sequel....just throwing it out there.

[Cold Skin]

Dragonball - Original. Dragon Ball Z - Way too slow. Dragon Ball Kai - A little too slow.

The initial show wasn't that much faster paced than the sequel....just throwing it out there.

Dragonball is the manga, which is why that list was preceded by "The truth incorporates the manga version as the original".
I've edited my post to clarify this, replacing "Dragonball" by "Dragonball (Manga)".

[ABED]

I'm not sure why anyone would think Kai was "a little too slow" when it cuts out around half of DBZ.

It's true that DBZ is better without the bulk of the filler, but I find a lot of it enjoyable. I especially like seeing Gohan progress as opposed to going from pampered kid to great fighter in pretty much the span of 1 episode.

[Cold Skin]

I'm not sure why anyone would think Kai was "a little too slow" when it cuts out around half of DBZ.

It's true that DBZ is better without the bulk of the filler, but I find a lot of it enjoyable. I especially like seeing Gohan progress as opposed to going from pampered kid to great fighter in pretty much the span of 1 episode.

It is "a little too slow" compared to the manga, not in general.
It has some additionnal things, so things unfold more slowly.
Example: since they couldn't get Gregory out, Goku has twice has much "run after something" training. Training takes longer, story unfolds more slowly.

But since it had 90% of filler elements removed, it is now only "a little too slow" to match the manga's speed, that 'little" being the few fillers that could not be avoided.

As for liking the fillers, that's not the question. The question is "why remove them?", the answer is "because it's more like the manga - replacing "way too slow in comparison" by "just a little too slow in comparison" story unfolding -, simply cause it's the whole concept of that version of the show to be closer to the manga".

[ABED]

I'm not sure why anyone would think Kai was "a little too slow" when it cuts out around half of DBZ.

It's true that DBZ is better without the bulk of the filler, but I find a lot of it enjoyable. I especially like seeing Gohan progress as opposed to going from pampered kid to great fighter in pretty much the span of 1 episode.

It is "a little too slow" compared to the manga, not in general.
It has some additionnal things, so things unfold more slowly.
Example: since they couldn't get Gregory out, Goku has twice has much "run after something" training. Training takes longer, story unfolds more slowly.

But since it had 90% of filler elements removed, it is now only "a little too slow" to match the manga's speed, that 'little" being the few fillers that could not be avoided.

As for liking the fillers, that's not the question. The question is "why remove them?", the answer is "because it's more like the manga - replacing "way too slow in comparison" by "just a little too slow in comparison" story unfolding -, simply cause it's the whole concept of that version of the show to be closer to the manga".

Fair enough about not answering the thread's main question, but plenty of people already answered what's a pretty clear cut answer.

You could argue that the manga is too fast in comparison to Kai. Granted it's because Toriyama is just one guy so who can blame him for not giving himself more work, but allowing stuff to breath can add to the experience. For instance, the first fight between Goku and Vegeta is really quick. Vegeta gets so pissed that he's ready to destroy himself to kill Goku far too easily. Also, as someone pointed out, Karin just giving Goku the water that grants him incredible strength is anticlimactic.

The training takes longer, and the story unfolds more slowly, but that doesn't make it inherently worse.

[Cold Skin]

The training takes longer, and the story unfolds more slowly, but that doesn't make it inherently worse.

Absolutely, it's all a matter of preferences.
But it's just not in line with the author's original work, and Kai's focus was all about being a "director's cut" (or rather "author's cut"), taking advantage of the assets they have nowadays. It wouldn't have made sense keeping the fillers when they actually don't need them anymore.

They already kept some fillers they could have taken out because they likely added to the way the plot unfolds or the emotionnal impact (Gohan's mini-adventure at the beginning or the great glimpse of the three years training).
All the rest was deemed as unnecessary and bringing no real added value, and indeed, they're often side-stories unrelated to the main plot or being redundantly explicit (saying Gohan will spend 6 months in Hell and showing the warrior he's become six months later is far enough, anybody would have guessed that he lived dangerous adventures that would make him take the express to "decent-level warrior able to be trained by a ruthless sensei", which was the only objective of that event plot-wise). People who want the main plot and the extra adventures have Z, so Toei made Kai filler-free to content people wanting to keep it to the main story that everybody must see.

Plus, it was probably a strong motivation for them to think that they would have to work on it for less than 100 episodes!

"Why removing fillers from Kai?" is like "Why does that Greatest Hits collection only contain songs that were popular and not that song that was so cleverly written and that I loved so much?". Because offering only the essential is the very concept of the release - even if that means sacrificing some songs that you liked -, people must go and get the previous releases if they want more than the essential.
Kai is like an equivalent to a Remastered Deluxe "Greatest Hits" Collection to a certain extent!

[dbzfan7]

I'd say Kai may be a little fast (just a little). I am glad they removed the filler since that and the pacing old pacing of DBZ outright ruined any re watching value unless someone online cut it down to a reasonable level (hooray for the good side of the online community)

[Jackal puFF]

It's a shame there's still some filler in it.. Once you know what's filler and you see it in Kai.. It just bothers.