Toei bypasses laws of fusion...

Chaos Saiyajin · Post by **Chaos Saiyajin** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:15 am

After watching Fusion Reborn, I noticed something that occured in that movie and in GT. After the fusion dance ends, the performers must wait an hour before attempting it again, right? I swear I've heard that somewhere that fusionees must wait an hour to re-fuse.

Examples of screw ups:
-Fusion Reborn

Examples of Goku forgetting that he had to wait an hour to fuse again:
-Dragonball GT

O_o Weird, huh?

Post by **desirecampbell** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:31 am

Didn't Vegeta and Goku have to hide out and wait until they could fuse again in movie 12? I've only watched a fan-sub, years ago - so don't quote me - but I'm pretty sure that's why they hid out in that 'prickly patch'.

Chaos Saiyajin · Post by **Chaos Saiyajin** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:34 am

desirecampbell wrote:Didn't Vegeta and Goku have to hide out and wait until they could fuse again in movie 12? I've only watched a fan-sub, years ago - so don't quote me - but I'm pretty sure that's why they hid out in that 'prickly patch'.

That was before, when Goku was teaching Vegeta fusion. After losing as Veku, the two quickly flew away, then re-fused into Gogeta five minutes later.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:44 am

You raise a good point, but there are many possible explinations for what happened in movie 12. By Janemba's very presense he was altering and breaking the laws of reality, so maybe the same "magical" laws of fusion no longer applied.

It could also be because Goku and Vegeta are both already dead; the instructions he supplied to Goten and Trunks might have applied to living fighters only, since he had no plans of using the fusion dance himself at that point in the story he would have no reason to elaborate. In the same way that Goku can push his body far past its former limits in death, the same might apply to the limits in Fusion.

Sebastian (SB) · Post by **Sebastian (SB)** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:44 am

Chaos Saiyajin wrote:
desirecampbell wrote:Didn't Vegeta and Goku have to hide out and wait until they could fuse again in movie 12? I've only watched a fan-sub, years ago - so don't quote me - but I'm pretty sure that's why they hid out in that 'prickly patch'.
That was before, when Goku was teaching Vegeta fusion. After losing as Veku, the two quickly flew away, then re-fused into Gogeta five minutes later.

Five minutes can bypass as an hour, I mean it's the DragonBall world we're talking about. As far as the GT Fusion.....the writers forgot?

Post by **desirecampbell** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:45 am

Chaos Saiyajin wrote:
desirecampbell wrote:Didn't Vegeta and Goku have to hide out and wait until they could fuse again in movie 12? I've only watched a fan-sub, years ago - so don't quote me - but I'm pretty sure that's why they hid out in that 'prickly patch'.
That was before, when Goku was teaching Vegeta fusion. After losing as Veku, the two quickly flew away, then re-fused into Gogeta five minutes later.

Damn memory! Why can't you remember a fan-sub from four years ago! *shakes fist*

Nekoni · Post by **Nekoni** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:46 am

Plus the didn't suceed in GT

Congrats on your plot-hole finding skills! Isn't it enjoyable filling these in and making the drive along the dragonball highway that much smoother..

Chaos Saiyajin · Post by **Chaos Saiyajin** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:12 am

Nekoni wrote:Plus the didn't suceed in GT

Congrats on your plot-hole finding skills! Isn't it enjoyable filling these in and making the drive along the dragonball highway that much smoother..

*eats cookie* Why thank you, Nekoni.

I guess what Deus said about Fusion Reborn maybe correct, and another factor that could come into play is the fact that afterlife time runs way faster than Earth time.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:01 am

I always just figured that an hour *had* past.

Basically, the movie just didn't show them hiding out that whole hour for the obvious reason that the animators didn't have that long. I just prefer subscribing to the theory that the simplest explanation is usually the best one.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:49 pm

And in GT, the fusion didn't work when they tried it again.

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:21 pm

I could see them hiding out for an hour. On the other hand, plotholes are entertaining.

Chaos Saiyajin · Post by **Chaos Saiyajin** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:01 pm

Chuquita wrote:I could see them hiding out for an hour. On the other hand, plotholes are entertaining.

Yeah...Chuquita does have a point...Plot holes leave room for my ridiculous fanfics!

Li'l Lemmy · Post by **Li'l Lemmy** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:16 pm

I also remember hearing Goku mention during the Buu saga that the two people who want to perform Fusion need to be of "similar size and physical ability". The latter I never saw a problem with, since that could simply be a matter of the two people synchronizing their battle powers, but when speaking of the former it occurs to me that Vegeta is hardly the same size as Goku.

I couldn't remember whether or not this was a dub-exlusive line or if it applied to the original version also, but when Vegeta wants to fuse with Kid Goku in Dragonball GT (the third attempt), Goku specifically mentions that their difference in height is a problem in both languages.

Granted, it isn't really very realistic to expect Toei to stick with their own intra-series continuity, let alone when those elements are incorporated into a movie like Fusion Reborn . . . but since this thread is in the business of pointing out fusion inconsistencies, it seemed worth mentioning.

Chaos Saiyajin wrote:Examples of Goku forgetting that he had to wait an hour to fuse again:
-Dragonball GT

As mentioned by Nekoni, the Super Saiyan 4 Fusion wasn't actually successful the second time . . . but when I first watched that particular episode, I assumed that the wait-an-hour limitation was exactly why Fusion failed. When the reason given instead was that Goku had used up too much energy to go through Fusion again, I wondered why no one ever mentioned the waiting period and mentally covered over the inferred plot hole by telling myself that they all just forgot about it.

I still think that's the reason they couldn't go through it again. Meh.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:52 pm

Li'l Lemmy wrote:I couldn't remember whether or not this was a dub-exlusive line or if it applied to the original version also, but when Vegeta wants to fuse with Kid Goku in Dragonball GT (the third attempt), Goku specifically mentions that their difference in height is a problem in both languages.-Dragonball GT

Thank God that SSj4 resizes you, huh?

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:14 am

As for Movie 12... I go with the thought that Janemba had altered the laws of reality so the 1 hour rule didn't apply anymore.

I also remember hearing Goku mention during the Buu saga that the two people who want to perform Fusion need to be of "similar size and physical ability". The latter I never saw a problem with, since that could simply be a matter of the two people synchronizing their battle powers, but when speaking of the former it occurs to me that Vegeta is hardly the same size as Goku.

Ah, but Goku and Vegeta are of similar size. So, it's not identicle, but it's not vastly different. For example, Piccolo and Chaotzu would be unable to fuse because their heights are vastly different (ignoring the power issue).

Nekoni · Post by **Nekoni** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:56 am

Ah, but Goku and Vegeta are of similar size. Show, it's not identicle, but it's not vastly different. For example, Piccolo and Chaotzu would be unable to fuse because their heights are vastly different (ignoring the power issue).

Vegeta's one-head shorter, so by similar, up to a foot of someone's height seems to be bearable.

You know, I think it's very obvious who's tall enough to fuse and who's not. I'm pretty convinced that you just need to be similar enough in height to touch eachother's fingers!

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:13 pm

Nekoni wrote:You know, I think it's very obvious who's tall enough to fuse and who's not. I'm pretty convinced that you just need to be similar enough in height to touch eachother's fingers!

"But remember, the fingers must be fully extended!" - Quoth Goku, never more!

I personally don't think it was because an hour had passed, I go with my own theory that Janemba had the entire physical and spiritual planes manipulated enough, that fusing 5 minutes later made as much sense as the Justice League Unlimited incident where Batman and GL went to the future.

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:48 pm

A good point is raised here, I have to go the way that others are going and say that it was because they were dead.....of course that's the logical answer...the real answer is, Toei didn't feel like filling up space with waiting an hour.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:44 pm

Great Saiyaman wrote:...the real answer is, Toei didn't feel like filling up space with waiting an hour.

<<<"Fusion Reborn: The Director's Cut">>>

Goku, Vegeta, and Janemba are just chilling, sitting around. Goku and Vegeta talk some, about Super Saiyan 3 and being dead and what not, but Janemba's not much of a conversationalist. Janemba does, however, provides some delicious hors d'oeuvres; jelly beans. Freeza shows up at one point, angry about something, and Vegeta uses him for target practice until he runs away crying. A couple games of checkers are played. Janemba keeps winning, until Goku and Vegeta both play him at once and thoroughly thrash him.

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:12 pm

ROTFLMAO

Kanzenshuu

Toei bypasses laws of fusion...

Toei bypasses laws of fusion...

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