Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Zombie wrote:
EDIT: like it or not, not getting K.O by someone stronger than you is a feat.
It absolutely isn't. We don't know any details of that fight, but we've seen plenty of cases where a character has been way stronger than their opponent and still hasn't instantly put them down. Piccolo has proven anything by staying on his feet.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
kei17 wrote:I have no idea what some people are arguing about, but I hope they'll stop giving a damn about strength.
Yeah sorry about that, we as debaters love talking about strength.
Also why is Goku skinnier as SSJG. I don't really like him getting skinnier, seems like as if he failed and became something like what Gotenks does when the boys fail fusion. I'm not expecting bulky, but to get skinnier is an odd choice.
It's been posted multiple times on the thread, I can't remember the exact wording and reasoning but it's just getting simpler for stronger, such as Freeza's true form and Perfect Cell.
It looks like he was dropped in a washing machine and shriveled up. He looks like he may fall out of his clothes now that he got skinnier.The hair is also too pink compared to the other screen shots.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
I think Goku's skinny look as a Super Saiyan God can be rationalized in how all this new power he's got is coming from his crazy otherworldly god-ki, instead of as a product of his own body. The emphasis is on his aura, rather than his muscles.
Zombie wrote:
EDIT: like it or not, not getting K.O by someone stronger than you is a feat.
It absolutely isn't. We don't know any details of that fight, but we've seen plenty of cases where a character has been way stronger than their opponent and still hasn't instantly put them down. Piccolo has proven anything by staying on his feet.
Kaboom wrote:I think Goku's skinny look as a Super Saiyan God can be rationalized in how all this new power he's got is coming from his crazy otherworldly god-ki, instead of as a product of his own body. The emphasis is on his aura, rather than his muscles.
Then shouldn't he have the same build as in base?
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Toriyama's reasoning was he wanted to parse it down, wasn't it?
The in-universe reasoning I can think of is that since it's more magical in nature, such big muscles aren't needed. It's like how Pretty Cure aren't all muscular yet can still lift and throw super-heavy objects.
There's also the Cell, Freeza, and Buu are all small in their final forms thing, but aside from Buu they aren't magical/mystical so...? Maybe it's like how newer technology is smaller than older technology yet can do a whole lot more/is way more powerful.
*Hopes a screenshot of a non-game-face ssjg Goku eventually makes its way to one of the magazines*. The serious-business ones are cute too, but I want to see other expressions on his face. Those irises are huge! I want to know if they're really as big as I think they are and I can't really tell when he's got his eyebrows down.
*Also hopes a character sheet for ssjg Goku appears online in the future.*
Wow, Vegeta dancing is... weird... but also great!
Re: Piccolo vs Kaioshin
Just throwing my 2 cents... I have Kaioshin at Cell Jr's level, Cell Games Piccolo above SSG2 Vegeta (post-1st day in RoSaT), and Boo arc Piccolo not significantly stronger. Works perfectly from what we saw.
And Yakon is not stronger than Kaioshin, Kaioshin was afraid about Goku, and suggested to bead Yakon together so that they won't take any damage. There is no indication that Yakon is stronger than Kaioshin.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Just throwing my 2 cents... I have Kaioshin at Cell Jr's level, Cell Games Piccolo above SSG2 Vegeta (post-1st day in RoSaT), and Boo arc Piccolo not significantly stronger. Works perfectly from what we saw.
And Yakon is not stronger than Kaioshin, Kaioshin was afraid about Goku, and suggested to bead Yakon together so that they won't take any damage. There is no indication that Yakon is stronger than Kaioshin.
I know, off-topic, but they are already discussing this, so I just posted my opinion. But I don't have anything else to say, don't worry.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
dbzfan7 wrote:Yeah sorry about that, we as debaters love talking about strength.
Thing is, I'd love to see people actually debate character strengths for a change. But in practice all these strength "debates" just amount to people shouting their opinions at each other and never once listening to what anybody else has to say. It's the opposite of what any forum should be about.
B wrote:Wow, that height comparison line-up... How hard must it suck to be pushing 40 and just barely be taller than a 7-year-old?
Well technically he should be about 12 by now...but he still looks the same as he did when he was 7, so...yeah.
I was planning on listening to the OST samples but decided against it. I think they will have greater impact if I first hear them with the movie. Same with Vegeta's dance clips , though it takes some willpower
Herms wrote:Shenlong's head looks so stiff and unnatural on that cover. It's like they cut off his head and hung it in the background.
Yeah, the art on this cover doesn't seem that great. The only ones that seem to look okay-ish are the kids and Krillin.
Also Toriyama really likes to emphasize how much he doesn't want to work anymore It's sad in a way, yet understandable at the same time. Even with assistants AND just 12 pages a week , it's still a LOT of work. Even more so if you are a laid-back and lazy person as Toriyama often claimed to be.
I did listen to the movie's soundtracks and I have to say that they are not that great .
While I was listening to them , Mr. Bean , Video Games and Immediate Music came to my mind .