Why so much filler?

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desirecampbell
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Post by desirecampbell » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:51 pm

Domon wrote:But he didn't, even though the anime does state that Dead Zone happened. In work of fictions, writers do paint themselves into corners from time to time, and one simply has to accept that logic gaps exists. I think you just need to accept that, rather than trying to pretend that "it just didn't happen" as so many are strangely prone to. Given that an intense battle was going on, I don't see this case as that big of a deal. Perhaps things were happing too fast for him to think of using Gphan as a weapon, or perhaps he thought it would be far too risky to henge on an untrained, unreliable source(the battle did cost him an arm...), and upon completion of the battle, vowed to train Gohan so that he would be useable in battle(of course, it didn't quite end up that way, but the idea was sound). I'd rather we'd see more efforts into simple but plasable explaination for things, rather than pretending it never happened.
But other than the 'Garlic Jr. Saga' there's no evidence or reason to think that Movie 1 ever happened.
How about this: Movie 1 couldn't happen because everyone should have known about Gohan - and yet DBZ episode 1 shows everyone being amazed at Goku having a son, they had no idea he had a son. If Movie 1 happened, they would all know about Gohan. There. Movie 1 didn't happen, and it only took 2 minutes of one episode to prove it.

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Post by tarsonis » Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:04 pm

desirecampbell wrote:But other than the 'Garlic Jr. Saga' there's no evidence or reason to think that Movie 1 ever happened.
How about this: Movie 1 couldn't happen because everyone should have known about Gohan - and yet DBZ episode 1 shows everyone being amazed at Goku having a son, they had no idea he had a son. If Movie 1 happened, they would all know about Gohan. There. Movie 1 didn't happen, and it only took 2 minutes of one episode to prove it.
Agreed, movie 1 either did not happen or is in the alternate what-if timeline as we've speculated before. The Garlic Jr. saga follows up from some events loosely based on movie 1, which were never shown to us.

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Post by MyVisionity » Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:06 pm

tarsonis wrote:
desirecampbell wrote:But other than the 'Garlic Jr. Saga' there's no evidence or reason to think that Movie 1 ever happened.
How about this: Movie 1 couldn't happen because everyone should have known about Gohan - and yet DBZ episode 1 shows everyone being amazed at Goku having a son, they had no idea he had a son. If Movie 1 happened, they would all know about Gohan. There. Movie 1 didn't happen, and it only took 2 minutes of one episode to prove it.
Agreed, movie 1 either did not happen or is in the alternate what-if timeline as we've speculated before. The Garlic Jr. saga follows up from some events loosely based on movie 1, which were never shown to us.
What, so we just all imagined Movie 1?... The plot points don't have to align with the main series' timeline to have ever occured. Nor does it have to be part of an alternate universe. It's an original story set in the same world as the rest of the series; you can pull animated characters out of time and space for such a purpose. You can also pull those movie elements into a filler arc for the main series, whether they're illogical or not.

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Post by tarsonis » Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:30 pm

MyVisionity wrote:
tarsonis wrote:
desirecampbell wrote:But other than the 'Garlic Jr. Saga' there's no evidence or reason to think that Movie 1 ever happened.
How about this: Movie 1 couldn't happen because everyone should have known about Gohan - and yet DBZ episode 1 shows everyone being amazed at Goku having a son, they had no idea he had a son. If Movie 1 happened, they would all know about Gohan. There. Movie 1 didn't happen, and it only took 2 minutes of one episode to prove it.
Agreed, movie 1 either did not happen or is in the alternate what-if timeline as we've speculated before. The Garlic Jr. saga follows up from some events loosely based on movie 1, which were never shown to us.
What, so we just all imagined Movie 1?... The plot points don't have to align with the main series' timeline to have ever occured. Nor does it have to be part of an alternate universe. It's an original story set in the same world as the rest of the series; you can pull animated characters out of time and space for such a purpose. You can also pull those movie elements into a filler arc for the main series, whether they're illogical or not.
I don't think that's what either of us was implying. The point is we're trying to make logic out of something that is seemingly illogical. Yes it's the same world with the same characters..no one is disputing that. We mostly agree that the movies are not canon and are simply side stories.

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Post by Thanos6 » Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:36 pm

To continue the Marvel Comics analogy:

No one disputes that "What If" universes exist. Marvel's written about 200 issues or so about them. Sometimes characters cross universes from one to another (see various issues of "Quasar," "Exiles"). Hell, the main villain for the Avengers' big 30th anniversary storyline was an evil Avenger from an alternate world.

But they're parts of the same multiverse. They're still different timelines.

Same here. The Garlic Jr. universe exists. It just isn't the same one as the "normal" one.

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Post by MyVisionity » Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:41 pm

Thanos6 wrote:To continue the Marvel Comics analogy:

No one disputes that "What If" universes exist. Marvel's written about 200 issues or so about them. Sometimes characters cross universes from one to another (see various issues of "Quasar," "Exiles"). Hell, the main villain for the Avengers' big 30th anniversary storyline was an evil Avenger from an alternate world.

But they're parts of the same multiverse. They're still different timelines.

Same here. The Garlic Jr. universe exists. It just isn't the same one as the "normal" one.
But that's just it... the Garlic stories aren't from some What-If universe or alternate timeline. It just doesn't fit into the main storyline anywhere, because it's an original plot for a movie.

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Post by Thanos6 » Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:44 pm

Why not? For all we know, in the "real" universe Garlic was stopped by Kami before becoming immortal or something. Movie 1 shows What If that didn't happen.

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Post by Domon » Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:48 am

Take Spider-man for example, If Uncle Ben never died then Peter Parker would have never of felt guilt and wouldn't of felt to peruse being a 'hero' instead of an entertainer.
But in Garlic Jr, we're not talking about anything like someone dying or having a life-altering event. All we're looking at is Goku and Piccolo having an extra adventure for an hour. if somebody died during that movie, then yes, that would've been the big blunder. However, nothing to that extent happens in the movie.

But other than the 'Garlic Jr. Saga' there's no evidence or reason to think that Movie 1 ever happened.
That's all we even need. Bardock only got two panals in the manga, but that's enough to tell us that the events of the Bardock special happened.

How about this: Movie 1 couldn't happen because everyone should have known about Gohan - and yet DBZ episode 1 shows everyone being amazed at Goku having a son, they had no idea he had a son. If Movie 1 happened, they would all know about Gohan. There. Movie 1 didn't happen, and it only took 2 minutes of one episode to prove it.
Did Kuririn even know that Gohan was Goku's son in Dead Zone? He could've been surprised in episode 1 by that this kid was Goku's son, rather than some kid he was babysitting. Even pushing that question aside; this is, again, something that is, at best, a minor error. Small cases of apparent forgetfulness are not continunty breakers, and most series do have them. Just take the comic industry, you'll find lots of little errors in them, yet no one insists they're all seperate universes(well, I mean aside from all the reset buttons they're prone to pushing :P). Or another example is the James Bond film. In one movie, Bond said he went to Tokyo once, but a few films later, he said he never been to Japan before(and this is with the same actor). Or look at Star Trek. There are pleeeeeeeeaty of continunity errors that have crept up in that series 40+ years of history, but it's still all part of the same timeline.

Even just the manga version of Dragonball has mistakes in it. That 19/20 thing brought up earlier, the confusion over the multiple timelines in the Cell saga, or that apparently, only 8 months passed between the 21st Budokai and the pilaf saga, yet the Dragonballs are back to normal.

I'm not saying that major forehead-slappers don't occur--they do, but the examples in this case are small stuffs.

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Post by DBZ MAN » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:13 pm

I don't think that's what either of us was implying. The point is we're trying to make logic out of something that is seemingly illogical. Yes it's the same world with the same characters..no one is disputing that. We mostly agree that the movies are not canon and are simply side stories.
This is what we meant. Gohan's powers manifested for the first time in that movie. Piccolo and Goku never joined forces or met each other since their fight before it happened. Movie 1 is the replacement For the battle of Raditz. And there are many things minor things that point it toward the 'Then that doesn't make sense' In the timeline we follow. Thats what I call 'Major'
http://dbz-man.deviantart.com/

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