Dragonball movies...

Sypheran · Post by **Sypheran** » Wed May 24, 2006 10:41 pm

I'm wondering, what are some ways (however unlikely) that the funimation movies could be integrated into the canon (of the funimation show)? Sorry if funimation irritates anyone here, this is something I'm just trying to get to work...

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Wed May 24, 2006 10:52 pm

I don't think that the Funimation dub for the DragonBall movies could be worked into the "canon" of the series timeline any better or worse than the original Japanese.

Sypheran · Post by **Sypheran** » Wed May 24, 2006 10:58 pm

Deus ex Machina wrote:I don't think that the Funimation dub for the DragonBall movies could be worked into the "canon" of the series timeline any better or worse than the original Japanese.

Well there are still ways of working the movies into the canon of the show, even if it was extrodinarily improbable...

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Wed May 24, 2006 11:04 pm

Well, let's see. Unfortunately, most of the DBZ movies can't fit within the DBZ timeline. These are the ones which I'm pretty sure can be...

Movie #5 - "Cooler 1" - No reason why this couldn't have happened. It seems to be set during the 3-year training for the jinzoningen. Vegeta's not around, meaning he must have been training out in space at that point.

Movie #9 - "Bojack" - I don't seem to remember anything keeping this one from counting, either. It's set just sometime soon after the Cell Games (soon enough for Goten not to be around yet), and I don't see anything wrong with Trunks coming back for a visit after beating his jinzoningen.

Movie #10 - "Broli 2" - This one could've happened during the training period between the Great Saiyaman arc and the pre-Buu tournament. Unfortunately, since Broli's first movie couldn't have happened, there's no way it can have a sequel that counts, can it? Oh, well.

Movie #13 - "Hildegarn" - I don't know as much about this one as the others, but I assume it's just set post-Z. Mr. Buu's nowhere to be seen, though.

Hmm... that was a bit superfluous.

Sypheran · Post by **Sypheran** » Wed May 24, 2006 11:13 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:Well, let's see. Unfortunately, most of the DBZ movies can't fit within the DBZ timeline. These are the ones which I'm pretty sure can be...

Movie #5 - "Cooler 1" - No reason why this couldn't have happened. It seems to be set during the 3-year training for the jinzoningen. Vegeta's not around, meaning he must have been training out in space at that point.

Movie #9 - "Bojack" - I don't seem to remember anything keeping this one from counting, either. It's set just sometime soon after the Cell Games (soon enough for Goten not to be around yet), and I don't see anything wrong with Trunks coming back for a visit after beating his jinzoningen.

Movie #10 - "Broli 2" - This one could've happened during the training period between the Great Saiyaman arc and the pre-Buu tournament. Unfortunately, since Broli's first movie couldn't have happened, there's no way it can have a sequel that counts, can it? Oh, well.

Movie #13 - "Hildegarn" - I don't know as much about this one as the others, but I assume it's just set post-Z. Mr. Buu's nowhere to be seen, though.

Hmm... that was a bit superfluous.

Didn't the Bojack one have Goku in it? And the Return of Cooler could be canon if everyone forgot that Vegeta was able to become a Super Saiyan... Why can't the first Broly movie have taken place in the 3 years of training for the androids or the week of training for the Cell Games?

Post by **desirecampbell** » Wed May 24, 2006 11:15 pm

Most movies can be seen as 'what if's. Like, 'what if Goku beat Cell at the Cell games?' Then Gohan wouldn't have turned SSj2, Goku wouldn't have died, and everyone would went out for a picnic and karaoke - and then Paragus could show up...

Like that.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Wed May 24, 2006 11:20 pm

Sypheran wrote:Didn't the Bojack one have Goku in it? And the Return of Cooler could be canon if everyone forgot that Vegeta was able to become a Super Saiyan... Why can't the first Broly movie have taken place in the 3 years of training for the androids or the week of training for the Cell Games?

Cool! Questions!

1) Yes, but he was dead. As he should be at that point. Although he did "break the rules" by teleporting to Earth for a few seconds.

2) Nope. That's not even the big problem with it. It's the Planet they're all on. Namek, supposedly, but which Namek? The one that blew up after Goku and Freeza's fight, or the one that nobody even knew where the heck it was until a few days before the Cell Games?

3) Because everybody (Goku, Trunks, Vegeta, Gohan) are Super Saiyans, and Goku's alive, which would place it... smack dab in the middle of the Cell Games. Even if it's right before it... the world was in chaos, ya know? Nobody cared about gonig to register their kid in a school, or going on a cherry blossoms picnic when everyone's probably gonna die in a day or two...

Cool! Answers!

MisterFlashdude · Post by **MisterFlashdude** » Wed May 24, 2006 11:20 pm

Usually, this type of stuff annoys me... trying to fight the movies into canon. But since you added 'however unlikely', I'm not very upset with you.

Before I attempt, however, I'd like to point out that the movies were never intended to fit into the series. They are seperate stories, based on the characters and events of Dragonball Z. By your wording, its usually impossible to "integrate" the movies and the series. Granted, some are easier than others (i.e. Bojack's movie).

(Since they're shorter, I'm going to use the Funimation titles)

The best you can hope for is to guess a vague period in which the movies take place. The Dead Zone (1), for example, is based off the time period somewhere between before DBZ and shortly after it begins. The World's Strongest (2), The Tree of Might (3) and Lord Slug (4) would be somewhere between Goku's training with North Kaio-sama and before the trip to Namek.

Let's see...

Cooler's Revenge (5) would be sometime after Goku's fight with Freeza and before Trunks shows up, with Return of Cooler (6) taking place, apparently, after Dende becomes the new god of Earth.
Super Android 13 (7) would have to be sometime after Trunks shows up yet before the training in the Room of Space and Time, and Broly: The LSSJ would have to take place sometime between the 10 day wait period before the Cell games.

Bojack Unbound (9) can actually fit neatly into the timeline, shortly after Cell is destroyed.
Broly: The Second Coming (10) would be shortly before the Buu saga, and Bio-Broly (11) would be sometime after the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai.

Fusion Reborn (12) was actually squished into the storyline in the GBA game Buu's Fury, during the time in which Goku's 24 hour grace period on Earth was up.

Lastly, Wrath of the Dragon (13) would be sometime after DBZ.

Hope that helps a bit.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Wed May 24, 2006 11:31 pm

desirecampbell wrote:Most movies can be seen as 'what if's. Like, 'what if Goku beat Cell at the Cell games?' Then Gohan wouldn't have turned SSj2, Goku wouldn't have died, and everyone would go out for a picnic and karaoke - and then Paragus could show up...

Like that.

Yeah, I guess you're right. Most of them could be seen that way.

:::Paragus' ship's equipment detects the Cell Games going on:::

Paragus: Oh, shizzle. I'm not goin' anywhere near that!

Broli: B-but, but Dad... KAKARROTTO! C'mon!

Paragus: Quit your whining or I swear I will turn this ship around right now!

But what would Fusion Reborn's "What If" be, then?

Post by **desirecampbell** » Wed May 24, 2006 11:42 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote: Broli: B-but, but Dad... KAKARROTTO! C'mon!
Paragus: Quit your whining or I swear I will turn this ship around right now!

I putting that in my sig

Okay, here's my 'what if' list:

Movie 1: The Dead Zone
This movie could only take place if Radditz had not arrived, as no one knows about Gohan at all, or have happened one year before Radditz, and then everyone got amnesia

Movie 2: The World's Strongest
This movie shows Goku using Kaioken and Spirit Bomb, and wearing King Kai's uniform - direct evidence that this happens after his death and training. But Vegeta is no where to be seen, and everyone is alive (at the beginning anyway) and there's no talk of Namek. This movie probably happens after Vegeta and Nappa arrive, so, this movie could only occur if Goku got to the battle early and whooped Nappa's ass before he or his Sabimen killed anyone. The second necessity here is that they don't go to Namek. The easiest answer here is that Krillin didn't listen to Goku and stabbed Vegeta. But it's also possible that Vegeta survived and left as usual, and either isn't ever, or hasn't yet returned for vengeance and the DragonBalls.

Movie 3: The Tree of Might
This is Pre-Freeza Saga but Post-Saiyan Saga, just like the last movie. It's possible that this happens sometime after the last movie.

Movie 4: Lord Slug
This is Pre-Freeza Saga but Post-Saiyan Saga, just like the previous two movies. It's possible that this happens sometime after the last movie.

Movie 8: Broli
What if Goku beat Cell during the Cell Games instead of letting Gohan fight? He wouldn't have died, and Gohan wouldn't have gone Super Saiyan 2. Gohan would get back to studying, and they'd probably have a party - in the park, maybe, with karaoke. This sets up a perfect opportunity for Movie 8.

Movie 12: Fusion Reborn
If SS3 Gotenks had defeated Super Buu instead of goofing off Goku and Vegeta would remain dead and give ample time for this movie.

Movie 13: Dragon Fist Explosion
Having not seen this movie yet, I cannot say or certain, but I see no reason this movie couldn't occur after the Buu Saga.

The others I haven't seen

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Thu May 25, 2006 2:39 am

Movie #5 - "Cooler 1" - No reason why this couldn't have happened. It seems to be set during the 3-year training for the jinzoningen. Vegeta's not around, meaning he must have been training out in space at that point.

Movie 5 doesn't fit. Goku already has control over his SSJ transformation by the time he gets back to Earth but he doesn't have that control during the movie.

The only movies that can fit are 9 and 13.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu May 25, 2006 6:44 am

Xyex wrote:Movie 5 doesn't fit. Goku already has control over his SSJ transformation by the time he gets back to Earth but he doesn't have that control during the movie.

The only movies that can fit are 9 and 13.

Maybe he just didn't want to transform, until he was absolutely sure he needed to.

_Jrinu_ · Post by **_Jrinu_** » Thu May 25, 2006 6:45 am

You can also say that movie 1 fits, since it is right before radditz.

It's really hard to try and fit the movies into the storyline, but you can easily tell when they are taking place.

BrollysKin · Post by **BrollysKin** » Thu May 25, 2006 9:55 am

Movie 8 coould not have taken place between the cell game wait because both Goku and Gohan would have been relaxing in their super saiyan form. There are multiple tims throughout that movie that they are in base form.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Thu May 25, 2006 10:17 am

SSj Kaboom wrote:
Xyex wrote:Movie 5 doesn't fit. Goku already has control over his SSJ transformation by the time he gets back to Earth but he doesn't have that control during the movie.

The only movies that can fit are 9 and 13.
Maybe he just didn't want to transform, until he was absolutely sure he needed to.

No, he couldn't. It's evident by the fact he was nearly killed before he did. When Cooler drove him into that rock face he passed out. If he hadn't fallen to the ground he probably would have stayed that way, too. Goku's not an idiot, he transforms as soon as he realizes he's overpowered. Once Cooler transformed and he sensed his power, he'd have transformed as well.

Also, watch the scene where he does transform. It's very indicitive of Goku's emotions triggering, without his concious effort, the transformation. It's plainly evident by presentation that Goku could not transform at will during movie 5.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Thu May 25, 2006 11:43 am

The same thing happened with Gohan in movie 9, yet it's clearly post-Cell Game.

DaemonCorps · Post by **DaemonCorps** » Thu May 25, 2006 12:07 pm

Not to sound... fanboy-ish, but I heard that the Bojack Movie is the only one that can cleanly fit into the actual timeline. I'm guessing something like Fat Buu not being there or some kind of SSJ excuse can be used to kick the Hildegarn Movie out of the timeline.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu May 25, 2006 12:32 pm

Xyex wrote:
No, he couldn't. It's evident by the fact he was nearly killed before he did. When Cooler drove him into that rock face he passed out. If he hadn't fallen to the ground he probably would have stayed that way, too. Goku's not an idiot, he transforms as soon as he realizes he's overpowered. Once Cooler transformed and he sensed his power, he'd have transformed as well.

Also, watch the scene where he does transform. It's very indicitive of Goku's emotions triggering, without his concious effort, the transformation. It's plainly evident by presentation that Goku could not transform at will during movie 5.

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:The same thing happened with Gohan in movie 9, yet it's clearly post-Cell Game.

Both excellent points, eh? This has potential debate written all over it.

I myself, just feel sorry for the movies, what with all their craziness, so I try to fit them in in any way possible. So/And maybe I'm a bit biased towards one as cool as Movie 5.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Thu May 25, 2006 6:24 pm

Movie 5 also doesn't work because Gohan's age isn't a day past Namek, but there was over a year and a half before Goku got back, in which Gohan had long(er) hair again, and was significantly taller.

Movie 13 only works if you ignore the battle plot-holes, but that's nothing different from the Anime either.

Movie 6 isn't just out of place because of Super Saiyan Vegeta. Dende is the plothole.

Movie 9's plotholes are small...mainly the fact that when Trunks left for the past again (canon) to tell everyone he beat the Artificial Humans, he had short hair and was wearing armor. The Gohan thing...is a debate, as said before.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Fri May 26, 2006 5:15 pm

Duo wrote:Movie 5 also doesn't work because Gohan's age isn't a day past Namek, but there was over a year and a half before Goku got back, in which Gohan had long(er) hair again, and was significantly taller.

I gone and done fergot abourt that...

Duo wrote:Movie 6 isn't just out of place because of Super Saiyan Vegeta. Dende is the plothole.

Not to mention the entire frakkin' Planet Namek.

Duo wrote:Movie 9's plotholes are small...mainly the fact that when Trunks left for the past again (canon) to tell everyone he beat the Artificial Humans, he had short hair and was wearing armor. The Gohan thing...is a debate, as said before.

Well, maybe after he came back, he had to wait around for a while for the Time Machine to recharge or something. Or maybe he just heard about the tournament, and decided to stick around and enter it for fun. I don't think they had the Tenka'ichi Budokai in Trunks' timeline. Both could've allowed ample time for his hair to grow. Besides, long-haired Trunks is far 1337-er.

As for Gohan's SSj2 thing, I just now thunk of something about that. I think he could actually have been reluctant or unsure about wanting to use it. I seem to recall during the Cell Games, SSj2 changed Gohan's attitude a good deal (I'm sure there are all kinds of theories regarding this, too), and it was his subsequent arrogance that got Goku killed. I could see why Gohan might've wanted to avoid using SSj2, if possible, for fear of making a mistake like that again.