How fast are the characters...

[Steven Perry]

Don't mess with Desire. He's one smart dude, and will TAKE YOU DOWN (like good ol' Ninja Poe Bear ). You should just agree; he's most likely to be correct, anyway.

[Sypheran]

The anime's dipiction of the Freeza-Goku fight was unbelieveibly drawn out. It doesn't take long in th Manga. Having "five minutes" spread out over twenty episodes doesn't mean they were going really fast.

No, but having Goku become Super Saiyan, beat Frieza, and get off the planet by finding a ship in time is going really fast.

No, you don't need to go faster than light to be 'invisible', characters have been doing that since DragonBall - this has been stated before, several times, in this thread. Please don't ignore the points we make. You're starting to act like Ninja Poe Bear - and I swear to god, if you say you've written for Beckett I will NOT be so civil.

Yes you do, otherwise there'd be some kind of blur (like the after image) created. Characters have been doing that since Dragonball because they've been going as fast/faster then light since Dragonball, which explains how they can dodge blasts that go lightspeed. And no, I've never written for Beckett, but I am a major in science and math and know how to apply them, as much as possible, to fiction. (I only like fiction that can have them applied...)

What? That didn't make any sense. If Roshi's Kamehameha hit the moon in 4 seconds seconds it would be going 100,000 km/s or 1/3 the speed of light. That's slower than the speed of light. Also, The reason we see it only travel for a few seconds is because it would be boring if it traveled at the same speed we always see it go. We usually see energy beams travel no faster than the characters would throw a baseball (which, though fast, isn't faster than light).

How didn't that make any sence? I know that 1/3 the speed of light is slower then the speed of light, any one with knowledge should know that. Um... it doesn't travel at the same speed we always see it go... It's energy, you can't control how fast it moves... You can control how powerful or how much energy you use, but the speed of energy cannot be changed, it's constantly lightspeed.

Furthermore, you don't have to be faster than light to "dodge" light. Lean to the right, you just dodged some light. You're not faster than light.

Um... If you had a guy that was a block away fire a beam of energy at you, you wouldn't be able to dodge it unless you moved at the speed of light or beyond. The only light that you can dodge by simply leaning to the right is light that's more then a couple seconds away, and for light that's pretty far away (being that light can traverse the planet 7 to 8 times in a second)

[VegettoEX]

I like how everyone's assuming that light moves at the same speed in the real world as it does in the Dragon World.

Where a dog is the king.

[Kaboom]

I like how everyone's assuming that light moves at the same speed in the real world as it does in the Dragon World.

Where a dog is the king.

A-heh-heh-heh.

Also, remember. "Too fast for the eyes to track" doesn't necessarily mean "As fast or faster than light." If I wave my arm really fast past my face (ouch, I just thit my hand on something), it just looks like a barely-noticeable blur to me, even if I try to track it with my eyes.

[Last Son of Krypton]

I like how everyone's assuming that light moves at the same speed in the real world as it does in the Dragon World.

Where a dog is the king.

Oh, yeah. If anything light moves slower in the Dragon Ball universe.

[Sypheran]

I like how everyone's assuming that light moves at the same speed in the real world as it does in the Dragon World.

Where a dog is the king.

A-heh-heh-heh.

Also, remember. "Too fast for the eyes to track" doesn't necessarily mean "As fast or faster than light." If I wave my arm really fast past my face (ouch, I just thit my hand on something), it just looks like a barely-noticeable blur to me, even if I try to track it with my eyes.

Ah, but take a picture of your arm moving really fast and what do you get? A still image of your arm. Take a picture from when the characters in DBZ are moving so fast that you see no image, not even a blurr, and what do you get? A still image of scenery with no images of the characters.

[desirecampbell]

No, but having Goku become Super Saiyan, beat Freeza, and get off the planet by finding a ship in time is going really fast.

What? I'm glad you wrote that - it totally proved he moves at super speed. Awesome, but next time try to use 'examples' or 'reasoning' or 'logic' - just a suggestion.

Yes you do, otherwise there'd be some kind of blur (like the after image) created. Characters have been doing that since Dragonball because they've been going as fast/faster then light since Dragonball, which explains how they can dodge blasts that go lightspeed. And no, I've never written for Beckett, but I am a major in science and math and know how to apply them, as much as possible, to fiction. (I only like fiction that can have them applied...)

The faster an object moves, the more it 'blurs'. If it goes fast enough the blur is so fait you don't see it. This is a very simple concept.
In DragonBall the 'after image' technique was created when someone would move from one place to another at super speed - the 'after image' is the blur left behind.
And characters don't have to move faster than something to dodge it. Stand in the road - wait for a car to drive at you, jump out of the way - you didn't suddenly move at 100 KM/h - you just moved out of the way. There's no logical explanation why you would have to be faster than the energy beam to dodge it.

How didn't that make any sence? I know that 1/3 the speed of light is slower then the speed of light, any one with knowledge should know that. Um... it doesn't travel at the same speed we always see it go... It's energy, you can't control how fast it moves... You can control how powerful or how much energy you use, but the speed of energy cannot be changed, it's constantly lightspeed.

What you had said didn't make sense. You said that because Roahi's Kamehameha reached the moon in a few seconds it proved it went faster than light - I used fact and math to prove you were wrong. And you're a Science major? Christ...
Also, as a science major (fuck, as a high school graduate) you should know that light isn't energy. Light is an electromagnetic wave. Light is a single piece of matter that travels in a wave pattern. It carries energy with it, but it is not energy itself.
Science major? Fuck...

Um... If you had a guy that was a block away fire a beam of energy at you, you wouldn't be able to dodge it unless you moved at the speed of light or beyond. The only light that you can dodge by simply leaning to the right is light that's more then a couple seconds away, and for light that's pretty far away (being that light can traverse the planet 7 to 8 times in a second)

Have someone throw a baseball at you, you don't have to move faster than the baseball to dodge it. You want an example? Watch a Major League game, the pitcher throws a fastball, it's about to hit the batter but he dodges it - those pitches reach 200 KM/h - the batter doesn't move that fast, I'll put cash on it.

Ah, but take a picture of your arm moving really fast and what do you get? A still image of your arm. Take a picture from when the characters in DBZ are moving so fast that you see no image, not even a blur, and what do you get? A still image of scenery with no images of the characters.

What? Take a picture? Yes, because that's what we're talking about...
Please try to follow along: if you move your hand fast enough, you won't be able to see it. It's not necessary to move faster than light to be undetectable to the naked eye.
And, for the record, if you took a picture of a person going faster than light, he'd show up on film - I really don't want to have to explain it to you, just trust me - he'd be on the film. There might be several of him, but he'd be there.
Science major? I weep...

I like how everyone's assuming that light moves at the same speed in the real world as it does in the Dragon World.

Where a dog is the king.

A dog shall be king! Hail Fido!

[Jerseymilk]

I like how everyone's assuming that light moves at the same speed in the real world as it does in the Dragon World.

Where a dog is the king.

My thoughts exactly. Especially when the subject of DB's moon is brought up as part of the debate. This is in a world where it was destroyed twice with absolutely no reprecussions to the planet's make-up or ecosystem either time.

[Xyex]

Alright, apparently I'll need to explain the Krillin and Roshi refrence I citied earlier. Now, pay attention Sypheran, as this destroys your entire arguement, and is thus very important.

Roshi and Krillin jumped at each other and launched several attacks while flying through the air. None of the average spectators could see a damned thing, the two were merely blurs to them. However, Krillin, Roshi, Goku, etc, they had no trouble watching. Why? Cause their eyes could pick up the movement but the average person's couldn't. They weren't moving faster than light, just faster than the eye.

If you remember, Goku and Freeza's entire fight only lasted less then 5 mintues,

In the manga, perhaps. But I know that, at least in the dub, the anime version lasted longer. Freeza even commented on the fact that he was suprised the planet was still in one piece. Also, the entire Goku Vs. Freeza battle did not last 5 minutes, even in the manga. From when Freeza launched the death ball, sure, but there was probably an hour or more of fighting before that.

2.) Freeza says "You are trying to follow the light, that won't work" or something like that. The reason that he tells goku that it wont work is because he's going so fast that the light cannot keep up with him and thus he doesn't have any image for Goku to see (and so Goku has to fight him through sencing his energy)

You're grasping at straws there. I can think of dozens of reason's why following him that way might not work. Including the design and coloration of his body distorting the light. And, it's already been stated, someone checked the manga and there's no trace of this line anyway.

3.) Master Roshi's Kamehameha got to the Moon, and destroyed it, in only a few seconds. That means that the Kamehameha was at least going the speed of light (which makes sence because it's made of Ki which is energy and energy travels at the speed of light). Now if the Kamehameha travels at the speed of light it makes complete sence that the characters move beyond the speed of light because they can dodge the Kamehameha.

No... just no.

No, but having Goku become Super Saiyan, beat Freeza, and get off the planet by finding a ship in time is going really fast.

No one is denying that Goku's fast. But, er, hell, 500 M.P.H. is fast.

Yes you do, otherwise there'd be some kind of blur (like the after image) created. Characters have been doing that since Dragonball because they've been going as fast/faster then light since Dragonball, which explains how they can dodge blasts that go lightspeed. And no, I've never written for Beckett, but I am a major in science and math and know how to apply them, as much as possible, to fiction. (I only like fiction that can have them applied...)

We are talking about Dragonball. There's about as much realism to phyiscs in this show as there is there are polar bears in the desert.

You can control how powerful or how much energy you use, but the speed of energy cannot be changed, it's constantly lightspeed.

Uh, want to try again? There characters have, dozens of times, changed the speed of their energy. The attacks do not move at the same speed from one use to the next.

Ah, but take a picture of your arm moving really fast and what do you get? A still image of your arm. Take a picture from when the characters in DBZ are moving so fast that you see no image, not even a blurr, and what do you get? A still image of scenery with no images of the characters.

First of all, since when were we talking about pictures? We're talking about faster than the eye, not faster than the camera. Secondly... uh... DUH? Wow, if you take a picture of something, it'll be there, and if you take a picture of nothing, nothing will be there! I never would have realized! -_- Seriously, in frames of DB where there's no character on the screen... OF COURSE YOU WONT SEE THEM! They aren't there after all!

[Rocketman]

We are talking about Dragonball. There's about as much realism to phyiscs in this show as there is there are polar bears in the desert.

Technically, the North Polar region is a desert.

[Kaboom]

We are talking about Dragonball. There's about as much realism to phyiscs in this show as there is there are polar bears in the desert.

Technically, the North Polar region is a desert.

pwn3d.

Sorry about the one-line post; just had to say that.

Oh, look at that! I guess it's not a one-line post anymore!

[Sebastian (SB)]

We are talking about Dragonball. There's about as much realism to phyiscs in this show as there is there are polar bears in the desert.

Technically, the North Polar region is a desert.

I believe he's referring to a desert with sand?

Also, the line Sypheran mention about Freeza telling Son Goku "not be able to follow the light". I was wondering if that was only included in the dub? Cause if it was it's just one of those contradictions in the dub. Though, I wouldn't be suprised if it showed up in the original JPN version since that has it's contradictions as well (alas the creation of the Dragon Balls as mentioned in the past weeks podcast).

[desirecampbell]

We are talking about Dragonball. There's about as much realism to phyiscs in this show as there is there are polar bears in the desert.

Technically, the North Polar region is a desert.

Nope, the North pole gets plently of precipitation - but the South pole is the world's largest desert - counter pwnt!

I'm so lame.

[param]

Actually the characters DO fight each other at FTL (faster than light) speeds.
At least in the anime.

Now with every powerup, Speed and Power increase with fixed ratio. I'll not be pointing out all the evidences but only USSJ and some other powerup gives power and steals speed, the rest - Power and Speed increases with ratio from kaioken-SsJ-Ssj2 and so on, the same for all other characters.

Now going with the principles of Sonic Boom, DBZ fights easily take place at speed of light or near.

First, Goku and Krillin started dissapearing when they were only kids in their first tournament. Heck, even to perform the afterimage it takes somed speed skills. I will research more and find out the exact speed at which the object the size of Krilln and Goku are comortably invisible to the human eye (the untrained human eye, or casual eyes)

Now it pretty reasonable to say, that if Goku was able to travel so fast that he dissapeared just when he was a kid and training only from Master Roshi, he has far surpassed the SoL by Ssj3, which is more than a million times the power and that means the speed which Goku was going at multiplyed by millions.

Now these are just the bare min basic calc. I don't know if Ssj3 is a million times than Goku as a boy or more than a million.


Second, one can confirm the fights in DBZ are taking place in super speed because of several, several instances of mountains, and land below them crumbling into pieces, with the obvious results of shockwaves from the fight, which is only caused by super-speed moving object under earth atmosphere with a considerable mass and body. in just the starting the DBZ this has been implied, and by the end the characters are a million times stronger or more taking their speeds to well exceed SoL taking the bare min speed required to cause Sonic Boom and multiplying it by a million.



Also, the Dub and even the videogames have tried to imply this. In the videogame 'Dbz - Budokai Tenkaichi', in the opening intro Goku and Buu are literally shown stopping the time in their fight as they exchanged punches. And by having titles such as 'supersonic warrior' on GBA.


I think its pretty reasonable to assume they're SoL. For the instances they seem to travel at slower than light speeds, that is because if anyone on earth, any object the size of human body travelled a considerable distance from one place to another at SoL or beyond - it would result in a serious damage causing the burn up the earth's atmosphere.....if only exchange of punches resulted in land breakage and earthquakes.






However, some will always come up with points that will disprove my theories, and i've got nothing but ONE answer for all of you - Nothing can be proved in Dragonball. Toriyami provided numbers for brute strength and power and speed, but its very surprising as to why, not once, has he not stated one direct speed unit. Had he at least written in manga the speed of Goku in mph or kph or any other universal measurement travelling only once would've been sufficient enough to prove how fast are everyone in DBZ and DB. So no, nothing you can say will prove that Goku is under SoL and nothing i can say which will completely prove the Goku is above SoL, we can only present theories, for the series is lacking canon statements.

The case is different with Superman and other where they are openly stated by the real authors to go beyond SoL but in DB we have only action with no supporting material at all, so nothing can be said.

Only in the Funi's dub it has been stated that Goku does travel at SoL, so for the general public that don't show up on forums or read mangas, they are most welcome to believe that if they chose to follow Funimation's version of Goku. Its each one to his own, Akira Toriyami is the main culprit here.

So i'd like you all to not have further arguments on this subject, and encourage the same on other forums as well.

[desirecampbell]

Now with every powerup, Speed and Power increase with fixed ratio.

"Fixed-Ratio"? How to you figure that? There no reason to think that every powerup increases speed the same amount it increases strength.

I'll not be pointing out all the evidences but only USSJ and some other powerup gives power and steals speed, the rest - Power and Speed increases with ratio from kaioken-SsJ-Ssj2 and so on, the same for all other characters.

What? Kaioken to Super Saiyan? This is a video game.
Again, there's no reason to think that every different powerup increases speed as much as it increases strength.

Now going with the principles of Sonic Boom

What? Principles of what? Hot fuck - I've had about enough of these people posting bullshit. "Principles of sonic boom" Christ almighty...

DBZ fights easily take place at speed of light or near.

First, Goku and Krillin started dissapearing when they were only kids in their first tournament. Heck, even to perform the afterimage it takes somed speed skills. I will research more and find out the exact speed at which the object the size of Krilln and Goku are comortably invisible to the human eye (the untrained human eye, or casual eyes)

Now it pretty reasonable to say, that if Goku was able to travel so fast that he dissapeared just when he was a kid and training only from Master Roshi, he has far surpassed the SoL by Ssj3

Why? Goku wouldn't have had to travel faster than sound to perform the After Image technique, and that's only 350 m/s (and the speed of light is 300,000,000 m/s).
Unless you're going to say something as asinine as "SSj3 is a million times as powerful...

, which is more than a million times the power

You fucking didn't...

and that means the speed which Goku was going at multiplyed by millions.

You fucking did...
Firstly, why is SSj3 a "million" times faster? That must've been in the manga, or the anime, or the daizenshuu - hopefully you didn't just pull that number out of your ass.

Now these are just the bare min basic calc. I don't know if Ssj3 is a million times than Goku as a boy or more than a million.

And you did pull it out of your ass. Sigh. Don't start saying "this is true because of x" and then switch to "but I just pulled x out of my ass". Seriously, that just pisses me off.

Second, one can confirm the fights in DBZ are taking place in super speed because of several, several instances of mountains, and land below them crumbling into pieces, with the obvious results of shockwaves from the fight, which is only caused by super-speed moving object under earth atmosphere with a considerable mass and body

What/ What the balls was that? 'Super speed"? Well, we know they move at "super speed", the point you were trying to make is that they were traveling faster than light. And, for the record, it's the air rushing behind them that causes the collateral damage, not the speed itself.

in just the starting the DBZ this has been implied

Yeah, by Piccolo - and we've already ascertained that he was just exaggerating. Fuck, how can you say that Raditz was faster than light?

and by the end the characters are a million times stronger or more

Again, there's no way of knowing how much stronger they are.

taking their speeds to well exceed SoL

No, a-fucking-gain I remind you that there's no reason to think that because they get 'x' times stronger they also get 'x' times faster.

taking the bare min speed required to cause Sonic Boom and multiplying it by a million.

Also, the Dub and even the videogames have tried to imply this.

Wow, the dub and video games? We should totally believe those impeccable sources. Because obviously Goku spent a year training with Kaio in the next dimension and Budokai 3 proves that Krillin can defeat SSj4 Goku.

In the videogame 'Dbz - Budokai Tenkaichi', in the opening intro Goku and Buu are literally shown stopping the time in their fight as they exchanged punches. And by having titles such as 'supersonic warrior' on GBA.

You can't honestly think that proves anything.

I think its pretty reasonable to assume they're SoL.

Oh yes, they are - but in a videogame, where the rules don't apply. Seriously, we also see Piccolo holding Perfect Cell back in the Sparking! intro, so Piccolo is as strong as Perfect Cell?

For the instances they seem to travel at slower than light speeds, that is because if anyone on earth, any object the size of human body travelled a considerable distance from one place to another at SoL or beyond - it would result in a serious damage causing the burn up the earth's atmosphere.....if only exchange of punches resulted in land breakage and earthquakes.

No, that's not what would happen. While it's true that the faster you go the more friction you build up in the air and thus create heat - we never see anyone suffer from such damage. Either because they are strong enough to not notice it, or they actively put up some kind of barrier (perhaps that aura we see over all the characters when they fly really fast...)
But that has nothing to do wit the 'breaking mountains' thing - that's just "I'm strong enough to break this mountain".

However, some will always come up with points that will disprove my theories

Only 'some'?

and I've got nothing but ONE answer for all of you - Nothing can be proved in Dragonball.

Well, I guess you include yourself in that 'some' group

Akira

I'm going to let this first "Akira" slide. You don't know him, you seem to barely understand his work. At least address him properly.

cam close to providing scouters for number , but its very surprising as to why, not once, has he not stated one direct speed number. Had he at least written in manga the speed of Goku travelling only once would've been sufficient enough to prove how fast are everyone in DBZ and DB.

No, saying how fast one characters was once can not prove how fast everyone is.

So no, nothing you can say will prove that Goku is under SoL and nothing i can say which will completely prove the Goku is above SoL, we can only present theories, for the series is lacking canon statements.

Um, what? I don't have to prove he isn't going faster than light, it's up to you to prove he is. There's no reason to think anyone travels faster than light, if you want to bring up some "theory" and try to back it up with asinine "proof" like "the dub and the videogames" I just have to repeat what you say until you realise you're making a fool of yourself.
Furthermore, if even you can't keep believing the "theory" how the hell do you expect anyone to believe it?

The case is different with Superman and other where they are openly stated by the real authors to go beyond SoL but in DB we have only action with no supporting material at all, so nothing can be said.

Exactly - no rason to think anyone goes faster than light, so why did you bring it up?

Only in the Funi's dub it has been stated that Goku does travel at SoL, so for the general public that don't show up on forums or read mangas, they are most welcome to believe that if they chose to follow Funimation's version of Goku.

Well, is every person's right to believe whatever they want, I'm not going to go out picking fights with the ignorant. But if someone shows up and trys to tell me that what they believe is right, I have the right to tell them they're wrong.

Its each one to his own, Akira Toriyami is the main culprit here.

How is Toriyama the "culprit" here? FUNimation is to blame for changing the meaning of 'Instant Transmition".

So i'd like you all to not have further arguments on this subject, and encourage the same on other forums as well.

What? Encourage bullshit debates? Let's bring up 'Creationism' while we're at it

----------------------

I just can't understand how you can go from:

the characters DO fight each other at FTL (faster than light) speeds.

To:

Nothing can be proved in Dragonball

[Kaboom]

...

...pwn3d.

Honestly, I think this thread is going to start looping, with the same arguments over and over again, expecially with people coming in and trying to prove stuff with stupid, badly-typed crap points using SuperSonic Warriors as a resource...

Honestly, I think this thread should be locked and allowed to slip away into peaceful, resolved, nonexistence...

[MisterFlashdude]

...

...pwn3d.

Honestly, I think this thread is going to start looping, with the same arguments over and over again, expecially with people coming in and trying to prove stuff with stupid, badly-typed crap points using SuperSonic Warriors as a resource...

Honestly, I think this thread should be locked and allowed to slip away into peaceful, resolved, nonexistence...

I agree. Please, for the love of fandom... no more 'Physics of Dragonball'...

[Pedro The Hutt]

What I think some people fail to grasp is that the human eye can't register everything that moves at sublight speeds. Light is fast, mind boggingly fast, about 300 thousand kilometers per second in a vacuum. If any body of mass were to move that fast it'd probably fall apart before it even got there. But leaving that aside. Even if something were to move at a "mere" thousand kilometers per second we wouldn't even know it passed us. And no camera in existance could've captured it either, thank you.
So therefore it is safe to assume that in order to "not" see someone move from one place to another they don't have to be anywhere near light speed. Just fast enough to not be registered by normal eyes. (As there was that scene where everybody BUT little Gohan were able to follow the fight, so now we can assume that on top of super strength, they also have super eyes, yay!)
For that matter, if on or above speed of light speeds were possible, the trademark, disappear, re-appear behind enemy thing would be done near instantaniously, which it doesn't, not in the anime at least, they always seem to need a second or two to get to where they want to be. Unless they're going so fast they in fact circled the globe once during that second.
But presuming that's not the case, that's not so fast. 20 meters distance covered in two seconds? 10 meter per second, or 36 km/h. Ooh and ahh, Goku can fly at the speed of a car within city limits.
So now we can come to the conclusion that the disappear/reappear isn't a sign of superspeed. It's just for the sake of dramatic effect since this is a Shounen Jump manga for kids.

Not to say that they can't be incredibly fast, as they've proven they can travel great distance in relatively short amounts of time. But I'd say that's more like supersonic speeds rather than superlight. (Except of course Son Goku's infamous "Finger to forehead and teleportation" move, which I might add, stunned the Z-senshi witless as obviously, think it impossible to have covered the distance in the time that he did it.)

But again, it's only a manga. =D Nothing to get your knickers in a twist about.

[Kaboom]

Lots of stuff that makes sense, etc, etc, blublah, blublah...

A perfect point to end the thread on, huh?

No offense or anything with the quote edit, Pedro; I just didn't wanna waste space.[/i]

[param]

"Fixed-Ratio"? How to you figure that? There no reason to think that every powerup increases speed the same amount it increases strength.

i see you're the smart-ass that's supposed to owning asses over here.
This'll be fun then, so here we go.


Bring me ONE instance where Speed and Strength don't increase with each in the same ratio. For example, Opponent1 challenges Goku and beats him, Goku trains for one month, Goku challenges opponent1 back, Goku beats the living fuck out of opponent1, not only in strength but speed.

Except the USSJ powerup and one other i'm forgetting (perhaps Oozaru) all other powerups and even simple training yield the same result.

Prove me wrong with an example.

What? Principles of what? Hot fuck - I've had about enough of these people posting bullshit. "Principles of sonic boom" Christ almighty...

Bohoo, cry me a fucking river, dumbass. Sonic Boom theory is applied even by DC comics for the reason why Flash and Superman never go lightpseed in earth atmosphere.
Stop trying to act like a fucking god with me.

Why? Goku wouldn't have had to travel faster than sound to perform the After Image technique, and that's only 350 m/s (and the speed of light is 300,000,000 m/s).
Unless you're going to say something as asinine as "SSj3 is a million times as powerful...

Goku was perfroming afterimage as a little boy. And afterimage may just be levels beyond the speed of sound. The user leaves temporary vibrating images of himself around the opponent. Most of the time, the opponent strikes the image which makes the sound, and misses, then he realises by the the time the sound has been made the person has gone further and strikes the images after it. This has been CLEARLY shown in the 21-22 Budokai's and mid DB.

why is SSj3 a "million" times faster? That must've been in the manga, or the anime, or the daizenshuu - hopefully you didn't just pull that number out of your ass.

I haven't been keeping up with powerlevel figures lately but the last time i checked, Ssj3 Goku was surely million times stronger than when he was just freakin' boy.

And, for the record, it's the air rushing behind them that causes the collateral damage, not the speed itself.

Duh! I thought that was common sense. A smartass who preaches, how wonderful!

Wow, the dub and video games? We should totally believe those impeccable sources. Because obviously Goku spent a year training with Kaio in the next dimension and Budokai 3 proves that Krillin can defeat SSj4 Goku. Rolling Eyes

huh? Who asked you to believe them? Those are understood non-canon sources, congratulation for enitrely missing the context i was speaking on.
What i meant was the speed show in DBZ was so obvious to be super speed that even videogames had animations and title depicting the same believe. Go get a mind relaxing therapy or something, you're spending too much time on the internet.

No, that's not what would happen. While it's true that the faster you go the more friction you build up in the air and thus create heat - we never see anyone suffer from such damage. Either because they are strong enough to not notice it, or they actively put up some kind of barrier (perhaps that aura we see over all the characters when they fly really fast...)
But that has nothing to do wit the 'breaking mountains' thing - that's just "I'm strong enough to break this mountain".

ugh, no. Ask the residents living nearby the Air Force centres. Ask them what happens when a jet takes off.
Bringing it to you here, windows shatter. Why? I prefer to call it sonic boom and you're welcome to google it to feed some knowledge to your thick head anytime.
Those jets supposedly aren't even supersonic when taking off, if something did go at the speed of light, it would shatter the entire city to pieces, or so by physics lessons taught me. And feel to free to ask about this anytime from DC fans, just ask them why Flash never travels at SoL on planet earth.

Um, what? I don't have to prove he isn't going faster than light, it's up to you to prove he is.

Myself and some equal majority to believe DBZ's surpass lightspeed.

And i just proved it with the sonic boom theory which is easily applicable and makes sense in DBZ. If Flash ever decided to run lightspeed across well crowded city without Speed Force coverup, you'd have people laying in a pool of blood, because they've all just been beheaded.


Now it makes sense why do mountains and land below breaks up with fight in DBZ take super speed and the fighters are simply shown as shockwaves?? Good.
Also, Goku's travels at mach17 when coming back from the Snakeway. By Ssj3 he's had his speed upgraded to a million times more, again taking it beyond lightspeed.



And btw, i've argued a 100 times about this on 100 other forums, you sure have been the oddest one, This forum could certainly do with a better idol to worship. I'm surprised even the mods take your senseless blabbering to newcomers trying to express their opinion in the humblest manner possbile to mankind.