T-Timelines?

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

There's a chart in Dragon Ball Forever that shows what happens in each of the timelines (not to be confused with the one in the Daizenshuu that shows a fourth timeline with an unknown outcome). Can someone scan it...?

[DaemonCorps]

There has to be four, bare minimum: the main one, the one Mirai Trunks comes from, the one Cell comes from, and the one visited by the Mirai who is killed by Cell. There can be more, depending on your personal theory, but there cannot be less.

Well, according to Akira's timelne chart, the Trunks that came into the anime timeline shares the same timeline as the one that Imperfect Cell comes from. However, an alternate timeline was made when Mirai no Trunks comes back after the Cell Games and kills Imperfect Cell instead of Cell killing him.

EDIT: And yes, I'd like some official scans just to try to put this thing to rest.

[Thanos6]

If this had come up two days ago before my old computer exploded...I had a scan on that hard drive.

[Swift]

There has to be four, bare minimum: the main one, the one Mirai Trunks comes from, the one Cell comes from, and the one visited by the Mirai who is killed by Cell. There can be more, depending on your personal theory, but there cannot be less.

Well, according to Akira's timelne chart, the Trunks that came into the anime timeline shares the same timeline as the one that Imperfect Cell comes from. However, an alternate timeline was made when Mirai no Trunks comes back after the Cell Games and kills Imperfect Cell instead of Cell killing him.

EDIT: And yes, I'd like some official scans just to try to put this thing to rest.

That doesn't make much sense though... If the Trunks who died truly did share the same timeline and experience the same events as the one who lived, how could he possibly lose to Imperfect Cell when he came back, or not expect him to be there? Cell would've had no chance if the Trunks-who-dies experienced the same events as the Trunks-who-lives, since the Trunks-who-dies would've been USSJ2, which would destroy Second-Form Cell, and Cell was in his First-Form only. It's an interesting idea, but I just can't accept that Trunks could've possibly lost that fight and still be the same one, until the point he lives or dies, as the one we know. The existence of a fourth timeline that the Trunks-who-died went to would make more sense.

Moving on to something else... I know this is going to make things even more complicated, but I thought I'd mention it.. Didn't the Daizenshuu list there being four timelines, and, confusingly enough, said that the fourth timeline's events were the same, that they had another Cell Games, but the outcome was different/unknown? That makes no sense, as it doesn't explain where another alternate-universe Cell could come from in order to have the Cell Games. But I'm just gonna cross that off as a mistake/noncanon. It's ridiculous, and would require five timelines, which doesnt make sense. I'm gonna go with the fourth timeline that the Trunks-who-dies visisted as being one where Cell never came, but the Androids got destroyed somehow (by Piccolo, by the remote, or whatever).

[Olivier Hague]

yes, I'd like some official scans just to try to put this thing to rest.

Don't count on it: the Daizenshû and "Dragon Ball Forever" give different explanations (and they both fail to satisfy me).

[veshira]

Well, if you imagine four parrallel universes that have identical pasts, but different points at which they were altered off of a previous timeline, it would look something like this chart I made awhile back. Hopefully this will help a little bit.

http://www.dragonballtoys.com/forums/at ... entid=1258

I like your chart best. It's not confusing.

[tarsonis]

Well, if you imagine four parrallel universes that have identical pasts, but different points at which they were altered off of a previous timeline, it would look something like this chart I made awhile back. Hopefully this will help a little bit.

http://www.dragonballtoys.com/forums/at ... entid=1258

I'm confused. The blue line is the Trunks who came back from the past and was powerful enough to destroy the androids and Cell. The Trunks on the yellow line is killed and Cell steals his time machine. Where did the Trunks that destroys Mecha-Freeza originate?

I'm gonna have to rewatch the Cell saga.

[DaemonCorps]

Well, according to Akira's timelne chart, the Trunks that came into the anime timeline shares the same timeline as the one that Imperfect Cell comes from. However, an alternate timeline was made when Mirai no Trunks comes back after the Cell Games and kills Imperfect Cell instead of Cell killing him.

EDIT: And yes, I'd like some official scans just to try to put this thing to rest.

That doesn't make much sense though... If the Trunks who died truly did share the same timeline and experience the same events as the one who lived, how could he possibly lose to Imperfect Cell when he came back, or not expect him to be there? Cell would've had no chance if the Trunks-who-dies experienced the same events as the Trunks-who-lives, since the Trunks-who-dies would've been USSJ2, which would destroy Second-Form Cell, and Cell was in his First-Form only. It's an interesting idea, but I just can't accept that Trunks could've possibly lost that fight and still be the same one, until the point he lives or dies, as the one we know. The existence of a fourth timeline that the Trunks-who-died went to would make more sense.

[...]

I'm gonna go with the fourth timeline that the Trunks-who-dies visisted as being one where Cell never came, but the Androids got destroyed somehow (by Piccolo, by the remote, or whatever).

Damn. Well, I like your idea of the Trunks that died having his own separate timeline from the Trunks we see. However, now we have to think of how that timeline came to be.

Here's yet another question to (perhaps) add more confusion: was it ever mentioned that there is an unseen timeline in which the Z Warriors won? Couldn't those fighters have survived from 19 and 20, but died from 17 and 18, creating a third messed up future in which that current Trunks grows up with Bulma, who makes a time machine and sends him to the past, but is killed by Imperfect Cell who steals the time machine.

So, referring to Akira's timeline, the grey line is Imperfect Cell's timeline, and the blue timeline doesn't exist, but its events are instead part of the main timeline (yellow).

Whew, so now I'm pretty sure that everything makes sense now, since Cell never spoke of Mirai Trunks being the one from the yellow timeline. And.. here's the biggie: all of the altered timelines (so, that excludes the yellow line) are made by having someone from an a different timeline coming over there to change its events. Going deeper into this explanation, that means that Trunks coming back to his own timeline to kill Imperfect Cell does not make another alternate timeline. If this were false, than that means that a new timeline would be made whenever Trunks went back to his own timeline (including when he went back after killing Freeza and King Cold).

Of course, now I've kinda drawn myself into a corner: Going by my logic that only someone from a separate timeline can make a new timeline if they went into the past, that means that Trunks would have made not one, but two alternate timelines (one when he kills Freeza and King Cold, and and another timeline when he comes back to the anime timeline three years later.

Ugh... no wonder Robert Zemeckis took the easy route and made the changes to the past eliminate the future and make a different future when he was making Back to the Future . Well, I've tried my hardest to make some sense of this, but I think that no matter what's done, people are just gonna make new plotholes ...

[desirecampbell]

Okay, newb question: do we know that Trunks went back to the future between fighting King Kold and the Androids? And if he did return, how long did he spend in the future before returning to the past? Is there any evidence to suggest that the 'future' timeline continues while he's in the past?

'Cause if he doesn't go back to the future, and time continues while he's in the past, I might be able to explain the timelines

[desirecampbell]

Okay, newb question: do we know that Trunks went back to the future between fighting King Kold and the Androids? And if he did return, how long did he spend in the future before returning to the past? Is there any evidence to suggest that the 'future' timeline continues while he's in the past?

'Cause if he does go back to the future, and time continues while he's in the past, I might be able to explain the timelines

[tarsonis]

Of course, now I've kinda drawn myself into a corner: Going by my logic that only someone from a separate timeline can make a new timeline if they went into the past, that means that Trunks would have made not one, but two alternate timelines (one when he kills Freeza and King Cold, and and another timeline when he comes back to the anime timeline three years later.

Correct, because according to DBZ theory, anytime you travel back into the past a new timeline is created (like Back to the Future), but when upon returning to the future, you return to the same timeline you left, and not the future of the timeline you just changed.

[Duo]

Okay, newb question: do we know that Trunks went back to the future between fighting King Kold and the Androids? And if he did return, how long did he spend in the future before returning to the past? Is there any evidence to suggest that the 'future' timeline continues while he's in the past?

'Cause if he doesn't go back to the future, and time continues while he's in the past, I might be able to explain the timelines

The time machine can only hold enough power for one round trip. Trunks would have been stranded had he not gone back and recharged. This is pointed out a couple of times in the story.

[desirecampbell]

Okay, newb question: do we know that Trunks went back to the future between fighting King Kold and the Androids? And if he did return, how long did he spend in the future before returning to the past? Is there any evidence to suggest that the 'future' timeline continues while he's in the past?

'Cause if he doesn't go back to the future, and time continues while he's in the past, I might be able to explain the timelines

The time machine can only hold enough power for one round trip. Trunks would have been stranded had he not gone back and recharged. This is pointed out a couple of times in the story.

Is there any mention of how long he spent in the future?

[Duo]

Okay, newb question: do we know that Trunks went back to the future between fighting King Kold and the Androids? And if he did return, how long did he spend in the future before returning to the past? Is there any evidence to suggest that the 'future' timeline continues while he's in the past?

'Cause if he doesn't go back to the future, and time continues while he's in the past, I might be able to explain the timelines

The time machine can only hold enough power for one round trip. Trunks would have been stranded had he not gone back and recharged. This is pointed out a couple of times in the story.

Is there any mention of how long he spent in the future?

It is stated that the time machine takes 8 months to charge...but, it was also stated, at one point, that it takes 3 years to charge...

Plothole - though I think the correct one is "Eight Months" based on Trunks' aging on his second trip to the past.

[veshira]

It is stated that the time machine takes 8 months to charge...but, it was also stated, at one point, that it takes 3 years to charge...

Plothole - though I think the correct one is "Eight Months" based on Trunks' aging on his second trip to the past.

Perhaps it first took 3 years to charge, but then Bulma made changes, and it only took 8 months after that? Or perhaps Toriyama changed his mind or forgot about it.

[desirecampbell]

It is stated that the time machine takes 8 months to charge...but, it was also stated, at one point, that it takes 3 years to charge...

Plothole - though I think the correct one is "Eight Months" based on Trunks' aging on his second trip to the past.

If it's eight months, my theory's blown, I might've had a nice one if it was three years...

[Super Sonic]

Of course, now I've kinda drawn myself into a corner: Going by my logic that only someone from a separate timeline can make a new timeline if they went into the past, that means that Trunks would have made not one, but two alternate timelines (one when he kills Freeza and King Cold, and and another timeline when he comes back to the anime timeline three years later.

Correct, because according to DBZ theory, anytime you travel back into the past a new timeline is created (like Back to the Future), but when upon returning to the future, you return to the same timeline you left, and not the future of the timeline you just changed.

With Trunks though it's more similar to "Days of Future Past". It didn't change anything in Kate Pryde's world, but it kept the Marvel Universe from going down that path.

[Thanos6]

Yep. DBZ and Marvel seem to use the same time travel ideas.

*looks at Cable and Nate Grey on one hand, Mirai and Trunks on the other*

[Duo]

Having peaked through the Manga a bit, it seems that 8 months is more likely because Bulma specifically says that number in the "Trunks: The Story" chapter.

However, it is pointed out that Trunks had to wait 3 years after returning (when he killed #17 and #18) before he could leave again (this is also why he looks so much older when he fights Cell...or should I say, in the Manga. The Anime doesn't seem to show it that well because that episode got the poor end of the animation stick).

Confusing...

[desirecampbell]

Well, I've got a half-decent theory (and I made a video to explain it).
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lljzwN1dlD0

I think the video explains it best, but to sum up (for the dialup stricken):

Everytime you go back in time you create another 'timeline'. This new timeline does not immediatly have an 'end' so to speak - this timeline's future 'hasn't happened yet', like your timeline's has. The new timeline's future "doesn't exist".

Secondly, your timeline keeps going forward in time as you're in the past.

Thirdly, if you try to return to the future you have to try the timeline you're in first. That is, if the time that you're trying to reach "doesn't exist" in your timeline you are forced back to the last timeline you've branched off from (the one you changed when you came from the future) and try there.
(This is rather confusing, the video seems to explain better)


Anyay, I can't really explain it with words (that's what the video's for )


There are some major holes in my theory. One, I assume Trunks waits three years to return to the past (which is probably false) and secondly, I'm missing a Cell (though I could just assume that he died, or wasn't strong enough with so few people to absorb.


And looking it over again, I don't think the theory holds much water. I can't explain why Trunks returned to the same alternate timeline instead of just making a new timeliine branching off of his own.