Is Tenshinhan considered human? Tenshinhan vs Kuririn

Ricochet0082 · Post by **Ricochet0082** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:30 pm

Some characters shoot energy out of their hands. Some characters fly around freely. Some characters live past 300 years. These are characteristics that humans do not have but the ones in Dragon Ball do. It's just a fantasy story with characters with amazing abilities. Spitting arms out your sides and splitting into four individuals, they are all techniques learned by Tenshinhan. He could be experminting with the dark arts for all we know.

Drunken Master · Post by **Drunken Master** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:35 pm

I'm talking about humans in the Dragon Ball sense of course. Shooting energy and flying around are normal for those guys. But the Daizenshuu says his ancestors were not human, thus why that plus his unique abilities make me come to the conclusion that he is not considered human.

_Jrinu_ · Post by **_Jrinu_** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:50 pm

Drunken Master wrote:
don't resemble human abilities at all. Not even Piccolo could do those.

Actually Tenshinhan is not the only one ever shown who could grow these extra arms.

Here we see the young Goku, performing the exact same technique(with even more arms I might add)

Now at this point I am certian that the idea of saiya-jin's had not even been dreamed of yet, so at this point Goku is still seen as a human. Therefor making it a technique that human's can perform.

Drunken Master · Post by **Drunken Master** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:05 pm

That is not the same technique at all. Tenshinhan grew those arms from his back. All Goku is doing is moving his two arms really fast as an optical illusion.

DaemonCorps · Post by **DaemonCorps** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:15 pm

Drunken Master wrote:Tenshinhan's abilites however...

[...]

don't resemble human abilities at all. Not even Piccolo could do those.

Well actually, Piccolo was able to make copies of himself as seen during the training before the Saiyajinn arrive. Also, Cell was able to do the same technique during the Cell Game against Goku (the cells for that move wereapparently taken from Piccolo, since Cell doesn't mention that he took any Cells from humans).

However, both of these moments were from filler so...

Anyways, even if he was a descendant of some kind of non-human race, I'm sure that they "breeded" (for lack of a better word) with humans. So, even if Ten is some kind of alien, he's still more human.

Mr. Announcer · Post by **Mr. Announcer** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:19 pm

Look, Dragonball was a pretty weird series with dinosaurs and other such animals walking around in clothes so I don't really think Tenshinhan's level of weirdness is enough to kick him out of the human race. The only reason his techniques seemed so unusual is that he was from a different school of fighting than the majority of the Z fighters. We see too that Chaozu has a very unusual way of fighting and I think we still consider him human. I feel that any of the other fighters could have learned Tenshinhan's techniques just as easily as they learned the air dance and Taiyoken, but probably didn't see them as useful. Nothing inhuman about it, at least in DB terms.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:24 pm

Even if Tenshinhan isn't human, per-say, that doesn't make him an alien by default. After all Earth has plenty of non-human species, and they all come from Earth.

If anything, I believe Tenshinhan is just a unique individual. An earthling without an easily catergorized species. Him having a third eye could even be a peculiar racial trait (in the DragonBall world) like Kuririn's missing nose, or the radical height differences of some "human" characters.

Drunken Master · Post by **Drunken Master** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:15 pm

By all means, I don't considered him an alien, but I DO consider him not a pure human as his ancestors were stated not to be human. He could be pure decent from his ancestory, or he could be a half-breed or whatever. All I know is that he isn't 100% human. As for others learning those specific techniques Mr. Announcer, I very highly doubt it. They couldn't even learn the kikoho, and all of his techniques are awesome and highly-effective. Well, besides the 12-eyes technique, BUT it was good with his strategy against Goku before he found out the weakness. I mean, he almost beat Goku again. Also, are you Mr. Announcer from Pojo?

Mr. Announcer · Post by **Mr. Announcer** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:29 pm

Yeah, before that board went to hell. Anyway what I was saying is that Tenshinhan's attacks are far more a matter of style than of ability. I don't see why you would doubt that other humans could perform those techniques when Gokuh and Kuririn learned the taiyoken and air dance without having to try all that hard. Granted, I'm sure he uses his ki in a very different way and his techniques would be difficult for fighters outside the school to master but I don't think it's a result of him being of a different species. As to why they the others didn't try to learn the kikouhou etc... I'm sure there's a measure of honor involved in avoiding another fighter's signature techniques, that and it might not be something easily learned just by witnessing it. I'm just going to stick with the general idea that he's from a unique human race. Don't you think a bigger point would have been made out him not being human?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:38 pm

Mr. Announcer wrote:I'm just going to stick with the general idea that he's from a unique human race.

Tien: Homo Sapiens Superior

Post by **desirecampbell** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:21 am

Okay, I still haven't seen any real proof that Tien is 'un-human'. The techniques? Nothing more extravagant than other seemingly human characters. Remember, at this time Goku was considered 'human' yet could turn into a giant Monkey. Third eye? Pfft, he could simply be based off of Erlang Shen, besides that other characters have other oddities too.

DaemonCorps · Post by **DaemonCorps** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:38 am

Well, after reading all of your concrete evidence, it seems that you've already reached a conclusion yourself that Tenshinhan isn't fully human and you're just looking for others to confirm this. (Sorry if I'm sounding like an ass.)

Anyways, if you just take the manga and various guides (Daizenshuu, Forever, Landmark, Densetsu, etc.), it seems that you evidence is completely correct and you assumptions make perfect sense.

Just as a side note: Goku has been best frinds with Kuririns since he was 12, so it would make sense (as a friend and not a fighter) for Goku to care for Kuririns's safety and take someone else who stands a better chance against the androids.

One more thing: Toriyama is known for forgetting about some minor things that don't really donate to his story at that point; his focus on the main story may lead to some small inconsistencies. For example, when Tenshinhan arrives to try and hold down Boo, he's in his complete outfit, whereas when he and Chauzu were dodging Boo's "human extinction" (sorry for the dub usage) technique, he's in his training tank top. Now, why would Ten put back all of his clothes on right before a fight?

From his point of view, Ten's only seen the visions that Babbidi transmitted to the earth's populus. So, I'd assume that he'd be pretty anxious to help as much as he can and wouldn't get all dressed. Also, Toriyama never even explained where Chauzu was. I'm guessing that Ten, once again, left him behind, since Ten also doesn't know how dire the situation is (Boo's killed nearly the entire population!).

Drunken Master · Post by **Drunken Master** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:03 am

@Mr. Announcer
Yeah, that forum did became pretty dull. I really don't see anyone else learning to grow two extra arms and multiplying, it just seems unique to Tenshinhan. The reactions of others kinda shows it.

@desirecampbell
Well, the daizenshuu of course says his ancestors were not human. Isn't that evidence? Goku wasn't considered human, none of the supporting cast could tell what he was, and always wondered what he was. They knew he was different, especially after he transformed into Oozaru the first time. They were always like "that kid is different" and "what the hell is he!?"

@DaemonCorps
No, you don't sound like an ass. I just really wanted to see if anyone could debate with Kuririn being the strongest, so I could add some more, or maybe they could have brought something up that I missed. I wanted to see if anyone could add to my debate, and etc. Also, I just wanted to read people's opinions and maybe try to convince some people that Tenshinhan was stronger of course. As for his clothes, during Goku's SSj3 transformation it shows Tenshinhan with his typical outfit - the green pants, white tanktop, but with a cape covering it all up. Later after Buu's genocide attack, he has his cape off, revealing the old school getup. Then he changes in completely new clothes to go help or see what's happening. So maybe he just wanted fresh threads? His other clothes are his training clothes, so maybe they stunk with sweat and he wanted to smell good for Buu...? As for Chaozu, he left him behind because he's already been revived twice by the Dragon Balls. That's why he basically left him behind in the Android saga as well.

omae no kaasan · Post by **omae no kaasan** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:02 pm

Some Facts:

Tenshinhan is listed as 'Alien' in Daiz 7

Toriyama did not write the Daiz

Toriyama endorsed the Daiz and praised his staff's work on them (see cover flap comment of 7)

Toriyama confirmed Krillin is the strongest 'Earthling' in Tenkaichi Densetsu.

My level of DB knowledge and care is nowhere near what it used to be so I cannot and will not argue the fine points or nitpick the details but based on those it seems pretty clear.

Drunken Master · Post by **Drunken Master** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:05 pm

Yeah, seems that way. Is anyone hear really familiar with legit AT interviews? Because I read an interview, which seemed very legit. The setup, the questions, the answers....everything. But anyhow, the interviewer asked AT if Tenshinhan was considered human, along with a second part question...He answered the other question, but totally ignored the Tenshinhan/human one.

Mr. Announcer · Post by **Mr. Announcer** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:08 pm

interviews can be pretty fast pace since the interviewer has a set amount of questions they need to get through and it is very common for parts of questions to go unanswered either because the guest forgets part of the question or spent too much time on another part. I don't think Toriyama was dodging the question or anything but depending on when the interview took place he might not have even known the answer himself.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:18 pm

I don't know what to say. I personally saw the power levels in the French-translated version of the books. It cleary read under Raditz' huge picture that he was 1,200.

Uh, first of all, there is no picture of Raditz in the PL section of the Daizenshuu. Secondly, I have no clue what you were looking at, but it was obviously not the French translated Daizenshuu as it shows 1500 for Raditz. The proof is in the scan.

Anyway, going on to the matter at hand. Tien's Human. The 3rd is a sign of enlightenment. The limb growth and splitting into 4 people are merely techniques he developed. If he'd taught them to anyone else we could have seen someone else do them in the manga instead of just the anime. But he didn't teach anyone so they never learned them cause none of them ever cared to try and learn them themselves. 4 arms wasn't useful and Multi Form is more a detriment than a help against a stong opponent since you're dividing your power.

Drunken Master · Post by **Drunken Master** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:59 pm

Then it seems it was the original Daizenshuu, because I don't recognize that page at all. I've seen most of both of them, but I can't remember that page. The french translated ones changed pictures and a bit of information around from what I read anyhow. As for the techniques...I still don't think anyone else could have learned them. Especially since how the others react to them. It just doesn't seem possible. As for the eye, it isn't his enlightenment, it was a physical feature of his ancestors, so says the Daizenshuu.

Oh yeah, I remember one thing...the power level page I noticed stated powers with a decimal. Like: 1.200

Also, you do notice that there is infact a picture of Raditz in that scan, right...?

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:20 pm

Er, typo. Meant no LARGE picture of Raditz (and damnit, that always looks like Vegeta down there).

And ya, the second page does that. 180.000, 3.000.000, etc. But the Japanese Daizenshu doesn't do that, it uses Kanji (I think, well, Japanese writing at any rate). I don't have the scan of the JP version anymore but I'm pretty sure someone around here does. Either way, it's the same page. Pictures are the same and so are the PL listings.

I still don't think anyone else could have learned them. Especially since how the others react to them.

Everyone had the exact same reaction to the Kamehameha, flying, the Tri-Beam, after image, and so on. Of course they're going to be shocked, it's something they've never seen before.

Drunken Master · Post by **Drunken Master** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:17 am

Okay, right now I'm drunk as hell. (still have good grammar, right?)

But I'm gonna scan the reactions. They aren't the same as when people saw the kamehameha or anything. It's more like they freaked out, especially with the two arms thing. Damnit, I can't see straight. Ha ha. Oh man. Give me some time. But yeah, if someone has the original daizenshuu power level of Raditz, then...post it of course!

Kanzenshuu

Is Tenshinhan considered human? Tenshinhan vs Kuririn

Re: Is Tenshinhan considered human? Tenshinhan vs Kuririn

Re: Is Tenshinhan considered human? Tenshinhan vs Kuririn