Why is Gogeta super sayain?

[JAKEMAN]

Why is Gogeta super sayain when Goku and Vegeta fuse? I mean shouldn't he be in a normal state?

[Tyro]

He transformed right after he was made. If you watch closely, you can see the aura being wide and sort of "engulf" him and then narrow down. But it only lasts a second.

Edit: I took some pictures. No idea how to post them though.

[supersaiyanguru]

I always figured that goku and vegeta fusing would create too high a base powerlevel to allow him to be in base form. All that power would cause him to explode so he was forced into supersaiyan.

[Son_GokouSSJ4]

I guess that wouldn’t make much sense showing them in normal state.
I mean...their power levels were just huge, and it was first showed in a movie (the Gogeta fusion), so why bother and show the audience normal stage when they could just start in super saiyan and kick Janemba's butt right away?
I guess they showed in the series with Vegetto, that they can start off with regular saiyan.

[supersaiyanguru]

But wasn't that part filler? At least 1 episode had them fighting as normal stage veggeto. "veggerot" is already a supersayian in the manga right?

[Duo]

I always figured that goku and vegeta fusing would create too high a base powerlevel to allow him to be in base form. All that power would cause him to explode so he was forced into supersaiyan.

That doesn't make any sense...did you forget Vegetto? Filler or otherwise, he was shown in his base level for a few seconds (or an episode) before transforming and he wasn't so overflowing with Ki that he was on the verge of exploding.

The (in-universe) explanation is that Goku and Vegeta both had a good feel and measure of Janemba's strength, and the instant they fused they realized they needed more so they/he went Super Saiyan instantly to save time and get it over with.

The (outside the box) explanation is that Toei animation didn't see a point in showing a base Gogeta.

[Tyro]

Your "outside the box" answer makes much more sense then your "inside the box" answer. There should be no reason Base Gogeta shouldn't be able to destroy Jenemba. Jenemba (fighter form) being just below Shin Boo in power, and Gogeta not being a lot different in power than Vegetto. If Base Vegetto could destroy Shin Buu, Base Gogeta should be able to destroy Jenemba (fighter form).

[Duo]

Your "outside the box" answer makes much more sense then your "inside the box" answer. There should be no reason Base Gogeta shouldn't be able to destroy Jenemba. Jenemba (fighter form) being just below Shin Boo in power, and Gogeta not being a lot different in power than Vegetto. If Base Vegetto could destroy Shin Buu, Base Gogeta should be able to destroy Jenemba (fighter form).

I don't believe so, but thats mainly because I believe the Potara fusion yields a far more complete and powerful fusion than the Metamorese dance, and this really isn't the place for that...

I chose to include a "in universe" explanation because members sometimes complain when I explain it from the "out universe / outside the box" POV.

[Xyex]

Your "outside the box" answer makes much more sense then your "inside the box" answer. There should be no reason Base Gogeta shouldn't be able to destroy Jenemba. Jenemba (fighter form) being just below Shin Boo in power, and Gogeta not being a lot different in power than Vegetto. If Base Vegetto could destroy Shin Buu, Base Gogeta should be able to destroy Jenemba (fighter form).

I don't believe so, but thats mainly because I believe the Potara fusion yields a far more complete and powerful fusion than the Metamorese dance, and this really isn't the place for that...

I'm with Duo here. The Potara fusion is just vastly superior to the dance and creates an even more powerful warrior than the dance. I don't think that 'base' Gogeta would have had all that much more strength than SSJ3 Goku did. He'd need SSJ to be able to fight. SSJ would put his power somewhere between Super Buu and Super Buu2, IMO. I doubt he'd be lucky to match base Vegetto's power.

But wasn't that part filler? At least 1 episode had them fighting as normal stage veggeto. "veggerot" is already a supersayian in the manga right?

I believe 'base' Vegetto was shown in the manga briefly, before transforming. Not sure. What I am sure about is that the Elder Kaioshin told them not need to be in Super Saiya-jin when they fused and said that he could transform afterwards, if he felt the need to, but they'd not have to as his base form would be strong enough on it's own.

[majinrod153]

Didn't Gotenks appear in ssj 3 after fusing a couple of times and not the base form?

So, I guess it is possible for Gogeta to do this.

[Son_GokouSSJ4]

I'm with Duo here. The Potara fusion is just vastly superior to the dance and creates an even more powerful warrior than the dance. I don't think that 'base' Gogeta would have had all that much more strength than SSJ3 Goku did. He'd need SSJ to be able to fight. SSJ would put his power somewhere between Super Buu and Super Buu2, IMO. I doubt he'd be lucky to match base Vegetto's power.

I really would like to understand why people keep putting the potara fusion above the metamor dance...I mean...it's a fusion! With the two same guys!
The only advantage I see, has to be the 'easiness' and quickness the potara fusion provides, and obviously not having the thirty minute limit, but apart from that...
Anyways... I don’t want to get off-topic here, and re-instating what I said earlier and also agreeing with Duo, is that his 'outside the box' explanation says it all.
Why bother showing base Gogeta? If they go Super Saiyan its obvious they have a base form!

[Dayspring]

Didn't Gotenks appear in ssj 3 after fusing a couple of times and not the base form?

So, I guess it is possible for Gogeta to do this.

Good point. I just assumed it was a time saving thing, but it happened in the manga too. Perhaps it's a trait of the fusion dance? It may even be possible to do it at will, and Vegetto simply chose not to when he was debuted. There's nothing to prove or disprove that possibility.

[Onikage725]

I really would like to understand why people keep putting the potara fusion above the metamor dance...I mean...it's a fusion! With the two same guys!
The only advantage I see, has to be the 'easiness' and quickness the potara fusion provides, and obviously not having the thirty minute limit, but apart from that...

I agree on that point. Rou Kaioshin says something to the effect of the Potarra being 100 times better than the dance, but I generally took that as an expression. People use that saying all the time, and generally just means "I like A more than B." People tend to react to that as if Potarra increased the power 100 times more than the dance. I think that by "better" it's just referring to the lack of a time limit, no energy drain concerns, no need for a cheesy dance...it's, as Rou puts it, "proper fusion." All of those illustrate why the Potarra is better, but nothing would explain why the fusion of the same two guys would somehow be so stronger in one version. I've heard the "rivalry" thing and I again say it's the same guys (and thus same rivalry). If the Potarra was 100 x better on a raw power scale, then why wouldn't Kaiobitto have been a viable ally in the fight?

[Sebastian (SB)]

I really would like to understand why people keep putting the potara fusion above the metamor dance...I mean...it's a fusion! With the two same guys!
The only advantage I see, has to be the 'easiness' and quickness the potara fusion provides, and obviously not having the thirty minute limit, but apart from that...

I agree on that point. Rou Kaioshin says something to the effect of the Potarra being 100 times better than the dance, but I generally took that as an expression. People use that saying all the time, and generally just means "I like A more than B." People tend to react to that as if Potarra increased the power 100 times more than the dance. I think that by "better" it's just referring to the lack of a time limit, no energy drain concerns, no need for a cheesy dance...it's, as Rou puts it, "proper fusion." All of those illustrate why the Potarra is better, but nothing would explain why the fusion of the same two guys would somehow be so stronger in one version. I've heard the "rivalry" thing and I again say it's the same guys (and thus same rivalry). If the Potarra was 100 x better on a raw power scale, then why wouldn't Kaiobitto have been a viable ally in the fight?

....Because Kaioshin & Kabito weren't that powerful in comparision to the Saiya-jins (whom had quite a struggle with Buu to boot) in the first place?

[t0ffe3m4n]

When you really think about it though, if we were to actually take Old Kaioshin's words literally, then Kibitoshin would have been uber.. right? So why was he never willing to fight if that were the case?

[Super Sonic]

When you really think about it though, if we were to actually take Old Kaioshin's words literally, then Kibitoshin would have been uber.. right? So why was he never willing to fight if that were the case?

I think in the manga at least (Don't own the ep) the old Kaioshin said he was still no match for Buu.

[Tyro]

I'm with Duo here. The Potara fusion is just vastly superior to the dance and creates an even more powerful warrior than the dance. I don't think that 'base' Gogeta would have had all that much more strength than SSJ3 Goku did. He'd need SSJ to be able to fight. SSJ would put his power somewhere between Super Buu and Super Buu2, IMO. I doubt he'd be lucky to match base Vegetto's power.

I don't really believe the potara fusion is vastly more powerful than the fusion dance. I know that there is a nice gap in power there, but nothing extreme. IMO, Super Gogeta is more powerful than Ultimate Gohan, but just by a bit.

[BrollysKin]

This topic is not the place for this. Read all about the fusion debate here:

http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.php?t=3457

[desirecampbell]

This topic is not the place for this. Read all about the fusion debate here:

http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.php?t=3457

I was in that debate - nothing was proven. Xyex said he had some theory... but that never went anywhere. No one could give any proof, or reason, why one fusion would create a stronger warrior.


The question here is 'why was Gogeta a Super Saiyan?'. The answer is 'because they're cool'. We don't know if he needed to use Super Saiyan to defeat Janemba.

[Xyex]

This topic is not the place for this. Read all about the fusion debate here:

http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.php?t=3457

I was in that debate - nothing was proven. Xyex said he had some theory... but that never went anywhere. No one could give any proof, or reason, why one fusion would create a stronger warrior.

I gave plenty of reason, you're just unreasonable.