"Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others".

[VegettoEX]

TheGmGoken, if you've "quit power debates", why are you so seriously engaging in them? Your signature is needlessly antagonistic and extremely childish about it, and yet you're doing the very same thing you're not-so-subtly criticizing others for doing.

[TheGmGoken]

I've addressed all of this about 2 post above. Did you read it? (I have to say I'm doubtful considering you posting things already covered)

2 post above is this post

Goku beats a Buu stronger than Evil Buu - that's a fact as well. The Diaz just sates the obvious, everything else is just speculation on our part. I Know I read (and watched) Kaioshinn state that Pure Buu was stronger than Evil Buu, and I know I read (and watched) Goku suggest bringing Gohan AND Gotenks to fight him. Both of them.

Unless you mean this post:

No we don't agree. I just proved it twice and you continue to point out that I haven't shown you anything. You don't have to "Agree" with the Daizn at all, but it is more "fact" than your fan theory.

Neither of which covers power checkers. I used manga quotes to prove that characters are stronger than the other. Now are you saying Metrite post is more fact than the author?

TheGmGoken, if you've "quit power debates", why are you so seriously engaging in them? Your signature is needlessly antagonistic and extremely childish about it, and yet you're doing the very same thing you're not-so-subtly criticizing others for doing.

Because I'm changing my signature today to something I found funny on WrestlingFourm. Besides this is like my first debate in a month. I never criticized anyone who does it. I just not so positive about it. Doesn't mean I can't do them. Who said I was serious? Lastly you're the only one who thinks my Sig. is "Childish"

[Kakashi]

I've addressed all of this about 2 post above. Did you read it? (I have to say I'm doubtful considering you posting things already covered)

The only one who repeats the same debunked things is you, kakashiUzamaki. SSjin Gotenks > Fat Boo is stated thus destroying your pathetic argument

[TheGmGoken]

I've addressed all of this about 2 post above. Did you read it? (I have to say I'm doubtful considering you posting things already covered)

The only one who repeats the same debunked things is you, kakashiUzamaki. SSjin Gotenks > Fat Boo is stated thus destroying your pathetic argument

KakashiUzamaki? . Hey not to mini mod but don't called his argument pathetic. It's his opinion. IF others like myself or someone else decides to help and change it then it's a debate.

[Kakashi]

I've addressed all of this about 2 post above. Did you read it? (I have to say I'm doubtful considering you posting things already covered)

The only one who repeats the same debunked things is you, kakashiUzamaki. SSjin Gotenks > Fat Boo is stated thus destroying your pathetic argument

KakashiUzamaki? . Hey not to mini mod but don't called his argument pathetic. It's his opinion. IF others like myself or someone else decides to help and change it then it's a debate.

Facts are facts

[Zantetsuken]

Every time we get something new, it either hints at Goku being stronger or does nothing. These days, the old Buu debates almost feel like debates between whether things are how Toriyama and folks decided to make it in the end, or whether things are how many people wish they had chosen to make it in the end.

The old arguments about the manga and such are always the same and always go in the same circles. I think the following list somebody made a couple years ago pretty much sums up almost everything from both sides. With things like Battle of Gods now here, this is a little outdated. For fun I'll just add and mark one of the newer arguments that have come along since then.

List of the main arguments that Evil Majin Buu is stronger than Pure Majin Buu:
1. When inside Buu, Goku says that Buu is too strong and they would lose if they went out like they were. So he has to be weaker than Evil Majin Buu.
Argument against: Since Goku knew they were inside Buu, he knew they were smaller than normal (though not aware of the extent to which they had truly shrank, since he thought they were still big enough to inflict damage) and he knew that it would be unwise to go out with several unconscious people that rescuing was the whole point of them being in there. So he insisted on fusion because he didn't want to risk facing Buu under as big a handicapped.

2. Goku said he wasn't sure if he could beat Buu when they first fought but figured Goten and Trunks fusing would do and so must be weaker than Buu and Gotenks.
Argument against: Goku could have beaten that Buu but held back and bluffed about it because he wanted to entrust the world to the new generation. And he didn't know exactly how strong whatever Goten and Trunks become would be and so knew it was a gamble but acted confident to inspire them to do their best.

3. When Pure Majin buu first appears, Goku and Vegeta looked puzzled for a second and then Vegeta notes that he shrank quite a bit to which Goku says this looks like something they can handle. This must mean this Buu was weaker than any other because even Vegeta was confident in his ability to take this one on.
Argument against: They couldn't really tell how strong this Buu was from him just standing there and so were underestimating him and so were surprised when he yelled and launched an attack neither of them could stop.

List of the arguments that Pure Majin Buu is stronger than Evil Majin Buu:
1. After Buu changed back to his original form, Kaioushin said, "It was through absorption that his heart changed, which even went so far as to reduce his power... but now it has returned to its original state..." He said that Buu's heart, which had reduced his power, changed back. Whose heart changed back to its original state? Evil Majin Buu. So who had reduced power? Evil Majin Buu. That explains why Evil Majin Buu panicked and said he wouldn't be himself any longer if the other Buu was removed. His many characteristics from his love of food to his ability to interact with others all resulted from his heart changing via absorption, a side effect of that being that he lost power.
Argument against: Since that does not agree with Evil Majin Buu being stronger than Pure Majin Buu, it is better to dismiss Kaioushin's line and make up one's own assumptions about why Buu became stronger or weaker.

2. After Gohan started losing to Majin Buu with Gotenks absorbed, Rou Kaioushin offered his life to Goku to send him back to help. Goku accepted the offer with the impression that he was to go fight Buu himself without fusing. This is shown by the fact that we next see Goku with his fingers to his head saying that he's off. Rou Kaioushin then stops him and states his doubts to which Goku ponders for a moment and then says that if him and Gohan do fusion they could definitely win, which leads to Rou Kaioushin offering the potaras as a better way to fuse. This means that when Goku had his fingers up to his head, he was about to teleport to the battlefield and fight Buu himself without fusion. This shows that Goku was not afraid to fight Evil Majin Buu under normal circumstances. And he had to have thought he was capable of at least achieving something against Majin Buu with Gotenks absorbed, otherwise he should have rejected the offer for revival with the excuse that he could accomplish nothing.
Argument against: Goku was just acting hastily without thought.

3. After the wish to revive everybody, Goku was wondering what plan Vegeta could be thinking of and guesses that he must have revived Gohan and Gotenks to come fight with them. The fact that Goku mentioned both Gohan and Gotenks suggests that the only thing he could think of doing was have everybody gang up on Buu, which would not make sense if Gohan could effortlessly win alone.
Argument against: Goku thought bringing them both would be better because they had both lost before and deserved a chance for payback.

4. Goku was initially against the idea of using the Genki Dama and said that taking a little energy from everybody wouldn't be enough. Vegeta then says that instead of taking a little they'll be taking it down to the threshold. After that Goku and everybody else from Gohan to Piccolo all act like it was the best idea. This must mean that the Genki Dama was a better choice over bringing Gohan. Gohan was also the first person to donate to the Genki Dama and Goku said that it still wouldn't be enough to destroy Buu. This shows that Gohan was not far too much, if any, stronger than Buu, otherwise his energy alone should have been more than enough.
Argument against: Everybody acted like it was a good idea so that Vegeta wouldn't look stupid. And Gohan held back most of his energy because him providing too much would make the people of Earth seem useless.

5.After Buu was beaten, Vegeta insisted in destroying Good Majin Buu because it would be the end of everything if that devastating Buu were to ever appear again. Goku says that he'll keep training so that if this ever does happen again he'll be ready to fight and not lose. Since Goku said it would be himself improving to make sure they don't lose next time, it suggests that none of them were truly capable of beating him individually.
Arguments against: Goku is a glory hog.

6. The big form that Buu turned into which when he absorbed the south Kaioushin was mentioned as being stronger than Evil Majin Buu. Since Kaioushin was so amazed by Gohan's strength that he thought he could do what no Kaioushin could, it shows the saiya-jins were already far stronger than the Kaiouishins were. The big form that Buu took on after absorbing one therefore couldn't be too noticibly stronger than Buu's original form.
Argument against: The south Kaioushin was an exceptional one that was even stronger than Buu, but he never bothered to try pulling the Z sword because he figured that if nobody else could then he may not either. And it had been so long that Kaioushin had forgotten how strong his friend really was.

7. Pure Majin Buu must have been significantly stronger than Gohan, or else Goku should not have cared about Buu being reborn. And he especially should not have had any reason to train the reborn Buu. The nature of the saiya-jin has always been, "The stronger the opponent the better". If Gohan was far stronger than Pure Majin Buu, then Goku could just seek occasional fights from Gohan who was already trained and far stronger. The fact that he chose to leave his family yet again in order to train Uub shows that Goku expects Uub to be the strongest challenger available.
Argument against: Goku doesn't like fighting people stronger than himself and so wanted Uub as an opponent that he knew he could beat.

8. In the final chapter of the Neko Majin manga where Goku appears, Goku claims there is somebody that him, Gohan, Uub, Pan, and Goten can't handle. With a shocked look his feline student says, "Even master, even Uub...?!" That fact that he singles them out suggests they the strongest amongst the people Goku mentioned, which included Gohan. So apparently that suggests Goku and Uub were both stronger than Gohan.
Argument against: Other manga shouldn't be used for clues as to how things were or how things were meant to be because it's not a direct part of DB.

*9. In Battle of Gods, when when Vegeta is being told about Birusu he doesn't seem too concerned until he's told that Goku was beaten. Instead of scoffing and saying, "It took him two blows to beat Kakarot? Pathetic. Gohan could beat him just by breathng on him," he freaks out and becomes so desperate to avoid conflict with Birusu that he goes as far as to dance his pride away. This suggests Goku was the strongest amongst them meaning that if he couldn't win then none of them could.
Argument against: Vegeta had forgotten how amazingly powerful Gohan and Gotenks are.

Personally, I always thought of point 1 on the latter side to be the main thing that convinced me that Pure Buu was at least meant to be stronger than Evil Buu. I see no reason whatsoever to have included that detail about his reduced power coming from a changed heart to be included unless it was to simply tell the children, "That's right, kids! This Buu is even stronger! What can they do now? Find out in the next chapter of Dragon Ball!" Either it's purpose was simply that, or else it was put there to deceive the readers into thinking something that was never meant to be.

Posted for you again! (I miss counted how many post we made before )

[Herms]

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P3.4-6
Context: after Boo reverts to his pure form
Vegeta: “……Heh…Heheheh…Look! He’s shrunk down quite a bit!”
Goku: “We did it! This way, we might be able to manage something.”
Note: "He’s shrunk" is chidzimu, which typically refers to physical shrinking (like with Bulma's Micro Band) and throughout DB is never used to refer to ki diminishing. So Vegeta's probably talking about how Boo’s body has shrunk. That doesn't mean Boo's ki didn't go down too, but it's not what Vegeta's talking about here.

Goku talking about how Boo power dropped so they can manage something.

The quote is talking about how Boo's body shrunk and says nothing about his ki at all. That's what the "Note" there is trying to explain, but apparently I didn't word it clearly enough.

The only one who repeats the same debunked things is you, kakashiUzamaki. SSjin Gotenks > Fat Boo is stated thus destroying your pathetic argument

Please behave yourself. This sort of nonsense is getting very tiring.

[TheGmGoken]

1. When inside Buu, Goku says that Buu is too strong and they would lose if they went out like they were. So he has to be weaker than Evil Majin Buu.
Argument against: Since Goku knew they were inside Buu, he knew they were smaller than normal (though not aware of the extent to which they had truly shrank, since he thought they were still big enough to inflict damage) and he knew that it would be unwise to go out with several unconscious people that rescuing was the whole point of them being in there. So he insisted on fusion because he didn't want to risk facing Buu under as big a handicapped.

Goku didn't know size reduce his ki. If I recall it was Boo who told them.

Goku could have beaten that Buu but held back and bluffed about it because he wanted to entrust the world to the new generation. And he didn't know exactly how strong whatever Goten and Trunks become would be and so knew it was a gamble but acted confident to inspire them to do their best.

We later found out that Gotenks indeed did surpass Goku. By beating up Super to which Goku(Who didn't know about the size issue) said he could't beat.

They couldn't really tell how strong this Buu was from him just standing there and so were underestimating him and so were surprised when he yelled and launched an attack neither of them could stop.

They wasn't exactly underestimating Pure Boo...well Vegeta was. They was shocked because Boo randomly destroyed Earth. Hell I think even Vegetto would be shocked by that.

Argument against: Vegeta had forgotten how amazingly powerful Gohan and Gotenks are.

To be fair. I know this is "In universe" but i is possible that Goten and Trunks got weaker, Everyone looks up to Goku, Gotenks and Gohan are not as good as a fighter, and the fact that originally Gohan was a SSJ.

Argument against: Goku doesn't like fighting people stronger than himself and so wanted Uub as an opponent that he knew he could beat.

The real argument against should be that Goten,Trunks, and Gohan don't like fighting.


If only most power debates was like this

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P3.4-6
Context: after Boo reverts to his pure form
Vegeta: “……Heh…Heheheh…Look! He’s shrunk down quite a bit!”
Goku: “We did it! This way, we might be able to manage something.”
Note: "He’s shrunk" is chidzimu, which typically refers to physical shrinking (like with Bulma's Micro Band) and throughout DB is never used to refer to ki diminishing. So Vegeta's probably talking about how Boo’s body has shrunk. That doesn't mean Boo's ki didn't go down too, but it's not what Vegeta's talking about here.

Goku talking about how Boo power dropped so they can manage something.

The quote is talking about how Boo's body shrunk and says nothing about his ki at all. That's what the "Note" there is trying to explain, but apparently I didn't word it clearly enough.

Don't worry Herms I understood the note completely. I just thought the note was about Vegeta only. Not Goku and Vegeta.

[Zantetsuken]

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P3.4-6
Context: after Boo reverts to his pure form
Vegeta: “……Heh…Heheheh…Look! He’s shrunk down quite a bit!”
Goku: “We did it! This way, we might be able to manage something.”
Note: "He’s shrunk" is chidzimu, which typically refers to physical shrinking (like with Bulma's Micro Band) and throughout DB is never used to refer to ki diminishing. So Vegeta's probably talking about how Boo’s body has shrunk. That doesn't mean Boo's ki didn't go down too, but it's not what Vegeta's talking about here.

Goku talking about how Boo power dropped so they can manage something.

The quote is talking about how Boo's body shrunk and says nothing about his ki at all. That's what the "Note" there is trying to explain, but apparently I didn't word it clearly enough.

The only one who repeats the same debunked things is you, kakashiUzamaki. SSjin Gotenks > Fat Boo is stated thus destroying your pathetic argument

Please behave yourself. This sort of nonsense is getting very tiring.

And I have no idea why he started calling me Kakashi/speaking in 3rd person....

[Zantetsuken]

Don't worry Herms I understood the note completely. I just thought the note was about Vegeta only. Not Goku and Vegeta.

1. We don't know that Goku didn't understand that - I'm under the impression that he didn't know exactly how small they were (until Buu told them, which is why that information was stated for the reader)
2. Again, I'm under the impression that the Buu Goku fought was stronger than the Buu Gohan and Gotenks fought. If your statement were true, the daizenshuu (which this conversation is really about) would have stated Gotenks surpassed Goku and the others, right?
3. Randomly Destroying Earth? There was nothing Random about it, SuperGohan buu tried to do it twice and was stopped both times. Kid Buu succeeded because they couldn't stop him.
4. I don't understand that answer - so in order for your theory to work, we have to assume that Gohan, Goten and Truck all got weaker for no reason, and this NOT be revealed to the reader? OR we can just assume this Buu which was stated to be stronger than the rest, would require everyone's assistance.
5. We see the end of Z Goku sparring with Goten, and honestly why are we assuming that Gohan wouldn't be training with his father? Why would Goku ignore his who family and supposedly stronger opponents to fight someone who was supposedly weaker? That doesn't sound like Goku at all.

[TheGmGoken]

1. We don't know that Goku didn't understand that - I'm under the impression that he didn't know exactly how small they were (until Buu told them, which is why that information was stated for the reader)

Goku doesn't know that size would caused them to lose power though. Not how small they were. He doesn't know how Boo's body work. Until Boo tells him.

2. Again, I'm under the impression that the Buu Goku fought was stronger than the Buu Gohan and Gotenks fought. If your statement were true, the daizenshuu (which this conversation is really about) would have stated Gotenks surpassed Goku and the others, right?

Daizenshuu ain't the holy book of DBZ. I only take stuff contradicted by manga. It is possible they was talking about people who are alive. Since Vegeta is the last strong fighter alive.

3. Randomly Destroying Earth? There was nothing Random about it, SuperGohan buu tried to do it twice and was stopped both times. Kid Buu succeeded because they couldn't stop him.

That was filler. Never have an enemy a Z fighter fought just randomly blows up a planet as their first attack. Hell SSJ Goku most likely could have stopped Freeza's planet destroyer but was to shocked.

4. I don't understand that answer - so in order for your theory to work, we have to assume that Gohan, Goten and Truck all got weaker for no reason, and this NOT be revealed to the reader? OR we can just assume this Buu which was stated to be stronger than the rest, would require everyone's assistance.

Truck!? Who's Truck . In BoG everyone looks up to Goku and Goku is the BEST fighter. Gotenks plays around to much and Gohan...for some reason can never finish anyone off . Goku is the only one who can get the job done.

5. We see the end of Z Goku sparring with Goten, and honestly why are we assuming that Gohan wouldn't be training with his father? Why would Goku ignore his who family and supposedly stronger opponents to fight someone who was supposedly weaker? That doesn't sound like Goku at all.

Goten was entering the Tenkaichi Budokai. Goku was most likely getting him back in shape. Gohan would't train cause there is no need to and the fact he has a life now. We clearly see how Gohan acts when he doesn't need to train and the fact Goten and Trunks are more into girls than fighting. Goku left so he can fight someone strong. Even though he has Vegeta and Gohan(Gotenks is a fusion..so don't know if Goku want to fight for 30 minutes).....Gohan doesn't like fighting and VEgeta...I don't know why he didn't pick Vegeta.

[Darkprince410]

Don't worry Herms I understood the note completely. I just thought the note was about Vegeta only. Not Goku and Vegeta.

1. We don't know that Goku didn't understand that - I'm under the impression that he didn't know exactly how small they were (until Buu told them, which is why that information was stated for the reader)

He insisted that fusion between him and Vegeta was the only way for them to defeat Evil Buu, and went so far as to berate Vegeta multiple times for having destroyed his Potara. Since he knows the Potaras don't work inside Buu's body due to the atmosphere within him, that means that he felt fusion was the only way they could defeat Evil Buu after they left his body and regained their normal size. Since you've been one to support the anime's views as well as the manga's, Goku establishes in the anime quite clearly that he believes they'd regain their size upon leaving Buu's body, which means that any notion of Goku's comment about not being able to defeat Evil Buu after they left his body being related to his small size is incorrect.

To summarize:

Goku and Vegeta would lose if they fought normal Evil Buu as he is now
Goku establishes that fusion is their only way to win, bringing up the Potaras as well
Potaras don't work inside Buu, so Goku's first comment is about them leaving Buu's body
Anime establishes that Goku knows that when they leave Buu's body, they'll regain their size
As such, Goku and Vegeta with their bodies and ki restored to normal would lose against normal Evil Buu.

[Zantetsuken]

1. We don't know that Goku didn't understand that - I'm under the impression that he didn't know exactly how small they were (until Buu told them, which is why that information was stated for the reader)

Goku doesn't know that size would caused them to lose power though. Not how small they were. He doesn't know how Boo's body work. Until Boo tells him.

I think Goku would realize he's pretty small, considering he's inside of Buu. Like I said, this one is open to what you want to believe, but I think this portion is later clarified with Buu's statements and with Goku fighting Kidbuu later on.

2. Again, I'm under the impression that the Buu Goku fought was stronger than the Buu Gohan and Gotenks fought. If your statement were true, the daizenshuu (which this conversation is really about) would have stated Gotenks surpassed Goku and the others, right?

Daizenshuu ain't the holy book of DBZ. I only take stuff contradicted by manga. It is possible they was talking about people who are alive. Since Vegeta is the last strong fighter alive.

Well...it's the assisting Guide. Are we going to pick and choose what we want to believe because it doesn't tell the story WE want it to tell? It's not contridicting the manga at all, it's clarifing it.

3. Randomly Destroying Earth? There was nothing Random about it, SuperGohan buu tried to do it twice and was stopped both times. Kid Buu succeeded because they couldn't stop him.

That was filler. Never have an enemy a Z fighter fought just randomly blows up a planet as their first attack. Hell SSJ Goku most likely could have stopped Freeza's planet destroyer but was to shocked.

It wasn't filler. Buu threaten to destory the Earth as GotenksBuu, Goku arrived and cut him in half. He did the same thing again after absorbing Veggetto. I have the Managa and I've watched the anime, that part is in both of them.

4. I don't understand that answer - so in order for your theory to work, we have to assume that Gohan, Goten and Truck all got weaker for no reason, and this NOT be revealed to the reader? OR we can just assume this Buu which was stated to be stronger than the rest, would require everyone's assistance.

Truck!? Who's Truck . In BoG everyone looks up to Goku and Goku is the BEST fighter. Gotenks plays around to much and Gohan...for some reason can never finish anyone off . Goku is the only one who can get the job done.

Because he's the strongest.

5. We see the end of Z Goku sparring with Goten, and honestly why are we assuming that Gohan wouldn't be training with his father? Why would Goku ignore his who family and supposedly stronger opponents to fight someone who was supposedly weaker? That doesn't sound like Goku at all.

Goten was entering the Tenkaichi Budokai. Goku was most likely getting him back in shape. Gohan would't train cause there is no need to and the fact he has a life now. We clearly see how Gohan acts when he doesn't need to train and the fact Goten and Trunks are more into girls than fighting. Goku left so he can fight someone strong. Even though he has Vegeta and Gohan(Gotenks is a fusion..so don't know if Goku want to fight for 30 minutes).....Gohan doesn't like fighting and VEgeta...I don't know why he didn't pick Vegeta.

Again, this doesn't explain Goku's excitment to fight someone new and strong. We don't know if Gohan's been training or not - but you are Assuming (a big stretch at this point) that Goku doesn't want to fight someone that strong? Come on.

Haha, I feel like we have everyone watching this topic right now.

[Zantetsuken]

Don't worry Herms I understood the note completely. I just thought the note was about Vegeta only. Not Goku and Vegeta.

1. We don't know that Goku didn't understand that - I'm under the impression that he didn't know exactly how small they were (until Buu told them, which is why that information was stated for the reader)

He insisted that fusion between him and Vegeta was the only way for them to defeat Evil Buu, and went so far as to berate Vegeta multiple times for having destroyed his Potara. Since he knows the Potaras don't work inside Buu's body due to the atmosphere within him, that means that he felt fusion was the only way they could defeat Evil Buu after they left his body and regained their normal size. Since you've been one to support the anime's views as well as the manga's, Goku establishes in the anime quite clearly that he believes they'd regain their size upon leaving Buu's body, which means that any notion of Goku's comment about not being able to defeat Evil Buu after they left his body being related to his small size is incorrect.

To summarize:

Goku and Vegeta would lose if they fought normal Evil Buu as he is now
Goku establishes that fusion is their only way to win, bringing up the Potaras as well
Potaras don't work inside Buu, so Goku's first comment is about them leaving Buu's body
Anime establishes that Goku knows that when they leave Buu's body, they'll regain their size
As such, Goku and Vegeta with their bodies and ki restored to normal would lose against normal Evil Buu.

The grand Kai also insisted on fusion in beating Purebuu - and in the anime the call him the strongest of Buus many times.

[TheGmGoken]

The grand Kai also insisted on fusion in beating Purebuu - and in the anime the call him the strongest of Buus many times.

I don't think we should use the anime. Seeing as the anime allowed Dead people in hell to keep their bodies

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

And Goku doesn't feel it'd be fair to use fusion against Kid Boo because he's "no longer merged" and fighting with his own power.

So, Goku thinks it's more fair to fight one of the strongest forms of Boo without Potara, but would rather not chance fighting the weaker Super Boo without fusion. Yeah.

[TheGmGoken]

Again, this doesn't explain Goku's excitment to fight someone new and strong. We don't know if Gohan's been training or not - but you are Assuming (a big stretch at this point) that Goku doesn't want to fight someone that strong? Come on.

A big stretch? Maybe Goku wants to fight someone who actually likes to fight. Look how excited Oob is when Goku takes him away. Tell me when have Gohan showed that emotion for fighting. The real question is. Why the fuck did Goku just forget that Vegeta is his rival?

Because he's the strongest.

No. Everyone loves when Goku there because when Goku there nothing ever ends badly. However when Gohan is there we got Trunks dying and Goku dying

It wasn't filler. Buu threaten to destory the Earth as GotenksBuu, Goku arrived and cut him in half. He did the same thing again after absorbing Veggetto. I have the Managa and I've watched the anime, that part is in both of them.

GotenksBoo? You said GohanBoo. They aren't the same person. GohanBoo after eating Vegetto took off his clothes and mentioned that something wasn't right.

I think Goku would realize he's pretty small, considering he's inside of Buu. Like I said, this one is open to what you want to believe, but I think this portion is later clarified with Buu's statements and with Goku fighting Kidbuu later on.

As DarkPrince410 said:

He insisted that fusion between him and Vegeta was the only way for them to defeat Evil Buu, and went so far as to berate Vegeta multiple times for having destroyed his Potara. Since he knows the Potaras don't work inside Buu's body due to the atmosphere within him, that means that he felt fusion was the only way they could defeat Evil Buu after they left his body and regained their normal size. Since you've been one to support the anime's views as well as the manga's, Goku establishes in the anime quite clearly that he believes they'd regain their size upon leaving Buu's body, which means that any notion of Goku's comment about not being able to defeat Evil Buu after they left his body being related to his small size is incorrect.

To summarize:

Goku and Vegeta would lose if they fought normal Evil Buu as he is now
Goku establishes that fusion is their only way to win, bringing up the Potaras as well
Potaras don't work inside Buu, so Goku's first comment is about them leaving Buu's body
Anime establishes that Goku knows that when they leave Buu's body, they'll regain their size
As such, Goku and Vegeta with their bodies and ki restored to normal would lose against normal Evil Buu.

Well...it's the assisting Guide. Are we going to pick and choose what we want to believe because it doesn't tell the story WE want it to tell? It's not contridicting the manga at all, it's clarifing it.

There is also an assisting guide that said Boo Arc SSJ Goku is equal to SSJ Goku from Freeza arc. For the last time. If it was the story I wanted to tell then Vegeta would be the strongest. Anyways I take anything from Daizenshuu that DOESN'T contradict manga

[Zantetsuken]

The grand Kai also insisted on fusion in beating Purebuu - and in the anime the call him the strongest of Buus many times.

I don't think we should use the anime. Seeing as the anime allowed Dead people in hell to keep their bodies

Well, he was trying to make a point, but the anime is very blantant in saying that Purebuu is stronger than Superbuu. It's actually quite obvious as well.

[TheGmGoken]

The grand Kai also insisted on fusion in beating Purebuu - and in the anime the call him the strongest of Buus many times.

I don't think we should use the anime. Seeing as the anime allowed Dead people in hell to keep their bodies

Well, he was trying to make a point, but the anime is very blantant in saying that Purebuu is stronger than Superbuu. It's actually quite obvious as well.

If it wasn't obvious then people would't debate it now would they. .

[Zantetsuken]

And Goku doesn't feel it'd be fair to use fusion against Kid Boo because he's "no longer merged" and fighting with his own power.

So, Goku thinks it's more fair to fight one of the strongest forms of Boo without Potara, but would rather not chance fighting the weaker Super Boo without fusion. Yeah.

Who says PureBuu is weaker? Superbuu almost beggs for them not to revert him to KidBuu. At which point Kaioshinn points out that he's actually stronger than before because the lack of Kai influence. The guidebooks I think even allude to PureBuu being the strongest of all the Buus (exception of Gotenks/Gohan Buu of course)