Unpopular DB opinions

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
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thatdbzguy
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by thatdbzguy » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:06 am

Saiga wrote:Bullshit. First of all, plenty of people do think DBZ is good, with me among them (talking about the Raditz-Boo part of the manga, not the Z anime). And I like it for far more than just the fighting - but you know, it's perfectly fine to like it purely for that reason if you're so inclined. People who think that they objectively know what a good story is don't know the first thing about story quality.
Except DBZ doesn't have much story quality to begin with.

It's embarrassing how a single song animation from My Little Pony shows more symbolism and complexity than all of DBZ.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Metalwario64 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:15 am

thatdbzguy wrote:It's embarrassing how a single song animation from My Little Pony shows more symbolism and complexity than all of DBZ.
Dear lord, no...
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Ajay » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:20 am

thatdbzguy wrote:It's embarrassing how a single song animation from My Little Pony shows more symbolism and complexity than all of DBZ.
You should make a post concisely explaining why exactly you find the show to be so poor. I had a look through your post history and most of it is just blanket negative statements with little to no reasoning to back it up. This isn't an attack, I'm just genuinely curious as to what you consider so awful about a show you say you enjoy.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:32 am

I agree. What is the song? What symbolism? Is it a part of the actual episode from the show you're referring to, or is it a separate production? Why is that important, and how is that relevant to Dragon Ball?

For example, what about the symbolism of the imagery (the line/snap, the bird) and the music (specifically the religious references) in Gohan's SSJ2 transformation scene? I think that's pretty fair game for comparison here. I don't know if you're just not aware of that scene, or think it has no relevance.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by thatdbzguy » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:47 pm

AjayLikesGaming wrote:
thatdbzguy wrote:It's embarrassing how a single song animation from My Little Pony shows more symbolism and complexity than all of DBZ.
You should make a post concisely explaining why exactly you find the show to be so poor. I had a look through your post history and most of it is just blanket negative statements with little to no reasoning to back it up. This isn't an attack, I'm just genuinely curious as to what you consider so awful about a show you say you enjoy.
A repetitive, overly-simplistic story.

One-dimensional characters.

Making everyone who wasn't a Saiyan useless, which is completely inexcusable.

Plot holes and inconsistencies.

Far too heavy of a reliance on characters making stupid decisions just to move the plot forward.

Lack of any cohesion whatsoever.
Khalid Shahin wrote:
Dragon Soul Funimation Lyrics wrote:Nothing ever dies; we will rise again!
Yeah, pretty much sums the show up right there.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:49 pm

thatdbzguy wrote:A repetitive, overly-simplistic story.

One-dimensional characters.

Making everyone who wasn't a Saiyan useless, which is completely inexcusable.

Plot holes and inconsistencies.

Far too heavy of a reliance on characters making stupid decisions just to move the plot forward.

Lack of any cohesion whatsoever.
And yet, it's entertaining.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by thatdbzguy » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:50 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
thatdbzguy wrote:A repetitive, overly-simplistic story.

One-dimensional characters.

Making everyone who wasn't a Saiyan useless, which is completely inexcusable.

Plot holes and inconsistencies.

Far too heavy of a reliance on characters making stupid decisions just to move the plot forward.

Lack of any cohesion whatsoever.
And yet, it's entertaining.
Regardless, it's terrible. It's what would happen if Micheal Bay made an anime/manga.
Khalid Shahin wrote:
Dragon Soul Funimation Lyrics wrote:Nothing ever dies; we will rise again!
Yeah, pretty much sums the show up right there.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:53 pm

So basically what you're saying is "Regardless of whether you like it or not, it's bad. If you disagree, you're objectively wrong. It's bad, and if you like it, then like me, you should feel bad." Is that about right?
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Ajay » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:57 pm

thatdbzguy wrote: A repetitive, overly-simplistic story.

One-dimensional characters.

Making everyone who wasn't a Saiyan useless, which is completely inexcusable.

Plot holes and inconsistencies.

Far too heavy of a reliance on characters making stupid decisions just to move the plot forward.

Lack of any cohesion whatsoever.
These are just more blanket statements.

What makes it repetitive and simplistic? Why is that inexcusable? What plotholes, inconsistencies and decisions? Where is this lack of cohesion?

I want to know in detail what you think. Nothing you've said has added any bit of credibility to what you said before.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by thatdbzguy » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:10 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:So basically what you're saying is "Regardless of whether you like it or not, it's bad. If you disagree, you're objectively wrong. It's bad, and if you like it, then like me, you should feel bad." Is that about right?
Not so much the last part, but yeah, that's basically what it boils down to.
Khalid Shahin wrote:
Dragon Soul Funimation Lyrics wrote:Nothing ever dies; we will rise again!
Yeah, pretty much sums the show up right there.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by thatdbzguy » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:12 pm

AjayLikesGaming wrote:
thatdbzguy wrote: A repetitive, overly-simplistic story.

One-dimensional characters.

Making everyone who wasn't a Saiyan useless, which is completely inexcusable.

Plot holes and inconsistencies.

Far too heavy of a reliance on characters making stupid decisions just to move the plot forward.

Lack of any cohesion whatsoever.
These are just more blanket statements.

What makes it repetitive and simplistic? Why is that inexcusable? What plotholes, inconsistencies and decisions? Where is this lack of cohesion?

I want to know in detail what you think. Nothing you've said has added any bit of credibility to what you said before.
If I explained every single one of those in great detail, I'd end up making an essay that no one wants to read.

Besides, I'm sure you already know some details yourself.
Khalid Shahin wrote:
Dragon Soul Funimation Lyrics wrote:Nothing ever dies; we will rise again!
Yeah, pretty much sums the show up right there.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:44 pm

thatdbzguy wrote:
AjayLikesGaming wrote:
thatdbzguy wrote:It's embarrassing how a single song animation from My Little Pony shows more symbolism and complexity than all of DBZ.
You should make a post concisely explaining why exactly you find the show to be so poor. I had a look through your post history and most of it is just blanket negative statements with little to no reasoning to back it up. This isn't an attack, I'm just genuinely curious as to what you consider so awful about a show you say you enjoy.
A repetitive, overly-simplistic story.

One-dimensional characters.

Making everyone who wasn't a Saiyan useless, which is completely inexcusable.

Plot holes and inconsistencies.

Far too heavy of a reliance on characters making stupid decisions just to move the plot forward.

Lack of any cohesion whatsoever.
Shows... what you know. I honestly think DBZ has a great story behind it. Granted, the quality of the story does worsen for the Artificial Human/Cell Sagas and becomes ridiculous by the Majin Boo Saga (though it still managed to be enjoyable it sort of had a self-aware quality to it) but it still managed to captivate from beginning to end.

Besides when was plot, story or continuity ever the big lure for fighting type shonen anime/manga?
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DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:46 pm

thatdbzguy wrote:If I explained every single one of those in great detail, I'd end up making an essay that no one wants to read.

Besides, I'm sure you already know some details yourself.
Well, you've provided NO detail, and have in turn DEFINITELY provided something no-one wants to read... because there's nothing of any substance here to read. See, if you don't write anything, there's nothing interesting to read!

So yes. Provide in-depth thoughts. People are asking for your in-depth thoughts, and if you're not willing to provide them, please don't bother tossing out blanket statements and then immediate turn and run away. We ask all of our members to make engaging, thoughtful, awesome contributions when they post here. If you're not willing to do that, then I'm not entirely sure why you registered in the first place.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by thatdbzguy » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:26 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote: Shows... what you know. I honestly think DBZ has a great story behind it. Granted, the quality of the story does worsen for the Artificial Human/Cell Sagas and becomes ridiculous by the Majin Boo Saga (though it still managed to be enjoyable it sort of had a self-aware quality to it) but it still managed to captivate from beginning to end.

Besides when was plot, story or continuity ever the big lure for fighting type shonen anime/manga?
DBZ's story was painfully mediocre from Saiyan to Freeza, and utterly abysmal from Cyborg to Buu.

Plot, story, and continuity should always be major factors in a series, regardless of whether it's a fighting series or not.
Khalid Shahin wrote:
Dragon Soul Funimation Lyrics wrote:Nothing ever dies; we will rise again!
Yeah, pretty much sums the show up right there.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by thatdbzguy » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:27 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
thatdbzguy wrote:If I explained every single one of those in great detail, I'd end up making an essay that no one wants to read.

Besides, I'm sure you already know some details yourself.
Well, you've provided NO detail, and have in turn DEFINITELY provided something no-one wants to read... because there's nothing of any substance here to read. See, if you don't write anything, there's nothing interesting to read!

So yes. Provide in-depth thoughts. People are asking for your in-depth thoughts, and if you're not willing to provide them, please don't bother tossing out blanket statements and then immediate turn and run away. We ask all of our members to make engaging, thoughtful, awesome contributions when they post here. If you're not willing to do that, then I'm not entirely sure why you registered in the first place.
I'm too stupid to properly lay out my complete thoughts on the matter. There are just some things I'm not good at explaining, especially in text form.
Khalid Shahin wrote:
Dragon Soul Funimation Lyrics wrote:Nothing ever dies; we will rise again!
Yeah, pretty much sums the show up right there.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Hellspawn28 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:40 pm

thatdbzguy wrote: Regardless, it's terrible. It's what would happen if Micheal Bay made an anime/manga.
AT is a much better story teller then Micheal Bay. Dragon Ball may not have the greatest written story ever but the characters are likeable and the series is a great read for the fight sequences and humor alone. Micheal Bay's humor is made for kids that find peeing and taking a shit funny and all of the characters in his movie are bland as crap. Directors like Micheal Bay and Roland Emmerich are Hollywood Trash.

Saying that DBZ doesn't have much story quality to begin with for having a bad story in a video game is a terrible excuse for the developers for being lazy.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Gaffer Tape » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:52 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:Micheal Bay's humor is made for kids that find peeing and taking a shit funny
Not that I dislike Dragon Ball, and not that I like any of Michael Bay's movies, but, um, this is different from Toriyama's brand of humor, how?

To be honest, while I'm not as self-loathing about it as thatdbzguy seems to be, I can't really disagree with some of the points he's made. Even though I like it all, I can't deny that, especially in the later arcs of the series, the plots become increasingly repetitive; nearly ALL of the characters serve no greater purpose than to fail miserably, thereby raising the tension but in a very cheap way (Piccolo arc, Freeza arc, and especially the Boo arc); the lack of planning really begins to show its seams, resulting in major plot developments coming out of nowhere or being discarded out of nowhere with absolutely no foreshadowing or thematic significance (such as Gohan in the Cell arc); Toriyama writing himself into corners due to his lack of planning resulting in characters having to make stupid decisions to move the plot forward (the first half of the Cell arc). Honestly, I get the impression that Toriyama was attempting to write more sophisticated stories but lacked the ability and/or discipline to do so. What was charming when given a humorous tone became harder to spackle over when expected to be taken seriously.

I still love it, but some parts really do not hold up under any kind of scrutiny.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by thatdbzguy » Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:12 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote: the series is a great read for the fight sequences and humor alone.
And nothing else.
Khalid Shahin wrote:
Dragon Soul Funimation Lyrics wrote:Nothing ever dies; we will rise again!
Yeah, pretty much sums the show up right there.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Hades » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:05 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:
thatdbzguy wrote: Regardless, it's terrible. It's what would happen if Micheal Bay made an anime/manga.
AT is a much better story teller then Micheal Bay. Dragon Ball may not have the greatest written story ever but the characters are likeable and the series is a great read for the fight sequences and humor alone. Micheal Bay's humor is made for kids that find peeing and taking a shit funny and all of the characters in his movie are bland as crap. Directors like Micheal Bay and Roland Emmerich are Hollywood Trash.

Saying that DBZ doesn't have much story quality to begin with for having a bad story in a video game is a terrible excuse for the developers for being lazy.
TBH I don't really see much humour in depicting the likes of Jimmy Savile as light-hearted comedy.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Hellspawn28 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:14 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:Micheal Bay's humor is made for kids that find peeing and taking a shit funny
Not that I dislike Dragon Ball, and not that I like any of Michael Bay's movies, but, um, this is different from Toriyama's brand of humor, how.
The Transformers movies have racist characters, dog fucking, Bumblebee taking a piss on the head of Sector 7, Sam's mom getting high from weed brownies, a random shot of Devastator's balls, and the list goes on. Dragon Ball never had that level of stupid humor. It's the type of humor that a three year old would find funny. The closet thing to Bay has done on making a decent movie was The Rock and the first Bad Boys movies. Him and Roland Emmerich just make stupid and mindless action movies.

With Dragon Ball, you care on what happens to the characters. In Transformers, I was like "Get on the Robots already!". Same with Roland Emmerich where I was hoping everyone would get killed off in Day After Tomorrow since that movie was so stupid or Matthew Broderick gets eaten in Godzilla.
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