Dragon Box GT HQ-Pics

narth3x · Post by **narth3x** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:54 am

Hey there,
can someone post some original Dragon Box gt screencaps of the first episode?
I really want to see the difference between the funi and toei dvds.
thanks

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:12 am

This isnt the place.

Saiyan · Post by **Saiyan** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:49 am

Actually, there was a thread a long while ago, comparing DBGT intro images from both the Funimation DVDs and the GT Dragonbox.

I did some searching for ya, and luckily, I found some images that Tsukento posted from his own Dragonbox DVDs and Funimation DVDs (props to him).

Funimation - GT Dragonbox

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:15 am

Very interesting indeed, looks like all of the babble that Funimation unloads about carefully treating their episodes isn't just word of mouth.

Then again, I wouldn't be caught dead buying that dub.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:35 am

Blade wrote:Very interesting indeed, looks like all of the babble that Funimation unloads about carefully treating their episodes isn't just word of mouth.

If you can call running their masters through a cheap color saturation increase filter and various sharpening masks 'carefully treating', then sure.

If you watch the discs back to back (I have, I still have a couple of Majin Buu and movie discs) with their DragonBox counterparts on a reference calibrated display...it hurts. The colors are literally so retina burning and the macroblocking is so bad that it hurts my eyes.

-Corey

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:06 pm

There should be a joke thread speculating on how FUNi treats their GT masters.

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:16 pm

Sure, the red contrast is high and is not always pleasant on the eyes. But the Dragonbox version looks dull, and not just in comparison.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:09 pm

Blade wrote:Sure, the red contrast is high and is not always pleasant on the eyes. But the Dragonbox version looks dull, and not just in comparison.

Ah, so you've viewed both on a reference calibrated display side-by-side? Okay, you win then.

Oh, wait. I actually have done that. So...yeah.

-Corey

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:33 pm

Your self dignified displays do not amuse me. Cut the sarcasm and cut your self loving, seemingly divinely vindicated remarks.

This dispute requires opinions, so don’t relay your own as fact and dismiss others in the same light. Debate for sure, but “Okay, you win then.”? It’s not a competition to start with, it can’t even be counted as humerous. You look an intelligent person, I wont underestimate you in that respect but maybe you should stop acting so cut throat.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:51 pm

Blade wrote:Your self dignified displays do not amuse me. Cut the sarcasm and cut your self loving, seemingly divinely vindicated remarks.

This dispute requires opinions, so don’t relay your own as fact and dismiss others in the same light. Debate for sure, but “Okay, you win then.”? It’s not a competition to start with, it can’t even be counted as humerous. You look an intelligent person, I wont underestimate you in that respect but maybe you should stop acting so cut throat.

Eh, it doesn't require opinions so much as unbias materials to draw comparision off of. Keep in mind since these first came out in '03 I've had to hear people ramble about how the image quality differs. The exchanges typically go:

Person X - "LOL DRAGONBOX IS the SUX! FUNI IS MAD MORE COLOR AND BRIGHT YO! AND NO SUBS? WTF!!1"

Me - "So, you have seen the Japanese discs on a television?"

Person X - "NOPE, JAPAN IS the GHEY!"

Me - "So...you're drawing your comparision off of JPEGs which are lossy, and as such can result in loss of detail, contrast, brightness and color?"

Person X - "...WHO'D WIN, GOKOU OR SUPERMAN?!"

Me - "..."

-----

Truth is, the FUNi discs when viewed on a properly calibrated display are painful to watch. The grain is very evident, any high movement scenes look like marcoblock heaven, and the colors such as Goku's gi and Piccolo's skin literally make me worry my plasma is going to get damaged.

Is this opinion? Yes. Do I have knowledge of these things however? Yes. Can I prove superiority via facts? Sure. The Japanese discs are progressive and higher bitrate. That makes them technically superior. That's not even counting the whole "new master from original cels" point.

My advice? See both in motion on a display that's calibrated to reference levels. I have because I've owned lots of FUNi discs and own all the DragonBoxes. Here's my setup, to avoid any confusion:

43" Pioneer Pro910-HD
OPPO DV971H DVD Player over HDMI, set to 720p upconvert

All calibrated with GetGray and DVE with THX color gels.

Sorry for sounding like a dick, but...come on. 3 years of this will drive anyone up a wall.

-Corey

P.S. - And may I predict that this will be closed because we're debating the DragonBall commercial releases on a DragonBall forum ;p

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:43 pm

I have friends who don't know anything about video quality and they can even tell how bad FUNi's GT is.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:03 pm

Corey, step back and read your remarks from Blade's perspective. THAT'S why the thread would/will end up getting closed.

Anyway, yes, FUNi's GT discs look like ass. No AVS script can save them

.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:43 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Corey, step back and read your remarks from Blade's perspective. THAT'S why the thread would/will end up getting closed.

Sorry, it just gets old. I'm tempted to put up a VOB file with 2 minutes of a high action scene from both FUNi and Toei's releases to make people stop this arguement finally.

Plus, I think trying to search for intelligence on GameFAQs has taken it's toll on me ;p

-Corey
ZOMG ONLY 18 CHARS?! LOL THIS the SUX!1 MORE LEIK SUPER DRAGON STREET BALL FIGHTER, ROFL!

BoxerGloves · Post by **BoxerGloves** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:28 pm

Sorry, it just gets old. I'm tempted to put up a VOB file with 2 minutes of a high action scene from both FUNi and Toei's releases to make people stop this arguement finally.

I don't think that there's even a need for that, just comparing screenshots from the DBGT Dragon Box and FUNi DVDs is more than enough to convince anyone how garbage picture quality is on FUNi DVDs. Not only that, but also on FUNi DB and DBZ DVDs the "grainyness" sometimes gets so bad, if you pause the picture, you can actually count the grain with a naked eye. Ugh!!

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:59 pm

MajinVejitaXV wrote:Me - "So...you're drawing your comparision off of JPEGs which are lossy, and as such can result in loss of detail, contrast, brightness and color?"

Considering I saved the screenshots with Photoshop 7.0 at Maximum, 100% quality, there's hardly anything really lost there.

I compared between PNG and JPG and there really wasn't any changes aside from file sizes.

If you would like more screenshots, feel free to ask. I've got the Dragon Ball GT Dragon Box and the first two FUNi DVD boxsets (Baby and Super #17) which I could do comparison shots with.

(At the time I took those screenshots, I did not have the Dragon Box handy so I had to use screenshots elsewhere; hence why I did not attempt removing their label on the Dragon Box screens)

Oh yeah, almost forgot. I also took these a while back.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:17 pm

I have to agree with Blade; I have never seen the GT DragonBox, and I've never done a tech comparison of the two (if I even knew how to do that), but by looking at these screen captures alone, in many cases the Funimation screens look better.

I'm certain the differences become much more clear when the two videos are played side by side, but I can see how people could come to that conclusion when all tehy have to go off are screen shots.

And say Tsukento, how about you sell me those DragonBoxes?

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:44 pm

That's fine. I'm kind of reminded of TV store displays though, how they crank color saturation and contrast (particularly red, to emphasize flesh tones) to try and make certain TV's "stand out". It's obviously what FUNi is doing here to try and give the show a newer look (when, in all honesty, a higher bitrate alone would make the show look so much better), and if you pay attention you'll see the colors detract from the overall image detail. Lots of blooming. See how you can't even read the Toei logo on the 'Proliferation: Episode 27" shot with SSJ 4 Goku?

One other thing that I never noticed (I never picked up GT by FUNi, personally) is that FUNi's version can't even stay consistent it would seem. Whereas the DragonBox remains the same, FUNi's is all over the place while they play with the saturation and other settings. That'd drive me nuts.

Still, if you think it looks better, your call. As for JPEG's and 100% settings, my point was that JPEG by definition is lossy. Just as a 320kbps mp3 may have little or no percieved difference in quality to a CD, a JPEG may have little or no percieved difference in quality to the original MPEG-2 stream...but it's the nature of the format to lose information from the original file

-Corey

Sebastian (SB) · Post by **Sebastian (SB)** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:50 pm

(Sneaks in)........All in All, I still find the Dragon Box qualities for all the respective series' the best.......(Sneaks out)

Post by **desirecampbell** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:42 pm

Considering I saved the screenshots with Photoshop 7.0 at Maximum, 100% quality, there's hardly anything really lost there. Razz I compared between PNG and JPG and there really wasn't any changes aside from file sizes.

As I've said before: JPEG can save losslessly - exact pixels. You can tell a JPEG is lossless by looking at the distortion around high contrast areas.

Anyway, just to say 'one looks better than the other' is purely opinion. That has to be excepted. Now, Funi's colors are saturated and they've cranked up the sharpness and the macro-block... uh...

But the Dragonbox is rather undersaturated.

But other than that, the rest is opinion. If you like sharpness and saturation - then the Funi discs are for you - if you don't mind the desturation then the Dragonbox is for you.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:24 pm

desirecampbell wrote:As I've said before: JPEG can save losslessly - exact pixels. You can tell a JPEG is lossless by looking at the distortion around high contrast areas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lossy_compression

Perhaps my explanation of lossy vs. lossless was inadequate. Please read these, and you'll understand that, by it's very definition, it's impossible for JPEG to be lossless. It can be very, very close, maybe even indistinguishable, but it can NEVER be an exactly copy of the source being compressed. Hence the name, "lossy compression".

But the Dragonbox is rather undersaturated.

But other than that, the rest is opinion. If you like sharpness and saturation - then the Funi discs are for you - if you don't mind the desturation then the Dragonbox is for you.

Eh, the DragonBox represents the actual colors that were intended by the animation studio. Since FUNi decides to change scripts, music and everything else, it's no wonder they decide to change the actual color and brightness intended by Toei's animators ;p

And anyone with any measure of experience with photo or video manipulation knows that sharpness isn't always a good thing, especially with videos that have inadequate bitrates >_>;;

-Corey