Who took the worst beating?

[TKA]

I'd say the fact that Videl's beating sticks out is because she's nowhere near as tough as the characters we're used to seeing getting their butts kicked. If that was Yamcha or Krillin in her place it wouldn't have been nearly as memorable.

[Cursed Lemon]

And if it was Yamcha/Krillin, there's a distinct possibility that it comes across as comical.

[RandomGuy96]

I'd say the fact that Videl's beating sticks out is because she's nowhere near as tough as the characters we're used to seeing getting their butts kicked. If that was Yamcha or Krillin in her place it wouldn't have been nearly as memorable.

She's no weaker than Spopovich, her opponent.

[rereboy]

I...really don't think the in-universe justification of WHY she got the shit kicked out of her is particularly relevant.

She got the shit kicked out of her - to a degree and in a manner exceeding that of almost all other beatdowns in the series except for things like Vegeta and Freeza.

What? She didn't even have any limb broken, or any limb ripped out or any hole in her body or any apparent permanent injury and she wasn't even stated to be close to death or anything to that effect.

How about Nail versus Freeza? Nail was WAY weaker than Freeza, couldn't do anything, got his arm ripped out right off the bat, and then was beat up to a pulp and received enough damage to die from it despite his regeneration (he stated to Piccolo that he was going to die).

How is Videl worse than that?

Or how about Goku Versus Piccolo Jr? Both of them were wrecked, Goku had all of his limbs broken and a giant hole in his chest. Piccolo was also beat up to the point of eventually dying from it if not treated.

Gohan versus Reccome?

Goku versus Vegeta?

Goku versus Piccolo Daimao?

Heck, even Yamcha versus Cell Jr is probably a worse beat down than Videl since he was totally beat up and had his arm broken.

I don't deny that Videl received a brutal beating, but the series shows us a lot worse many times and a lot of more uneven fights. The only difference is that she was a woman and that we weren't used to seeing that character or any women get beat up so much. That's it.

[Cursed Lemon]

As I said before, it's because we don't look at Videl as being a "real" fighter.

If you put Mr. Satan in the exact same position and replaced all of the comic relief with legitimate anguish, you would get the exact same reaction. That's a character that has no business being involved in such a graphically violent fight.

Look at the difference between that fight and other lopsided fights. We don't get analytical commentary about the battle from the peanut gallery, we don't get Videl's internal monologue, we don't get a lesson in fighting strategy. It feels utterly gut-wrenching and hopeless because that's the way the directing was supposed to make us feel; it is an entirely different take on a DBZ fight. We're not supposed to feel bad about Goku's legs getting stomped on by Oozaru Vegeta because we were constantly fed cinematic hints as to how Goku was going to get out of the situation.

It's not a normal DBZ fight. It was meant to showcase someone being brutalized without ulterior context.

[rereboy]

As I said before, it's because we don't look at Videl as being a "real" fighter.

She was shown to be able to handle lots of muscular guys, even guys with weapons, and always being able to handle herself and take them, and even being able to fly. The series makes it abundantly clear that she is pretty strong and a real fighter. Its obvious that there are characters much stronger than her like Gohan and the gang, but her opponent on the tournament wasn't out of her league in terms of power at all. So it has nothing to do with that.

Look at the difference between that fight and other lopsided fights. We don't get analytical commentary about the battle from the peanut gallery, we don't get Videl's internal monologue, we don't get a lesson in fighting strategy. It feels utterly gut-wrenching and hopeless because that's the way the directing was supposed to make us feel; it is an entirely different take on a DBZ fight. We're not supposed to feel bad about Goku's legs getting stomped on by Oozaru Vegeta because we were constantly fed cinematic hints as to how Goku was going to get out of the situation.

It's not a normal DBZ fight. It was meant to showcase someone being brutalized without ulterior context.

Now you are talking about the focus of the action, not about the person. You are saying that its harder for the viewer because there's no distractions. With that I can agree that its a factor that makes it harder for the viewer, but I don't agree that its the deciding factor for fans giving so much importance to that beat down. If it was Mr. Satan being beat up, we would still feel it was a brutal beating, but I'm pretty sure it would impress the fans much less.

[Cursed Lemon]

Just because that is the in-universe reality doesn't mean that we don't scoff at the idea of Videl being a legitimate fighter. You're ignoring my analogy.

[rereboy]

Just because that is the in-universe reality doesn't mean that we don't scoff at the idea of Videl being a legitimate fighter. You're ignoring my analogy.

No, I'm not. There's a difference between ignoring and not agreeing. I can tell you right now that I'm imagining Mr. Satan being beat up instead of Videl in the same situation like you said and, while I still feel it would be a brutal beating, it would be much less impressive than Videl.

The out-of-universe reality is simply that a woman, even a powerful one, appeals to us more as a victim than a man as a victim, just like a child appeals to us more than an adult. That's simply how our preconceptions are wired.

My whole point is that, rationally and realistically, there's no real reason to give so much importance to the Videl beat down as far as Dragon Ball beat downs go. But our preconceptions get in the way, and make it more impressive. And also, the fact that there's no distraction in the action and focus like you said helps making it more impressive.

[Cursed Lemon]

I'm not disagreeing with you when you say that female victims instinctually invoke more sympathy from us.

I'm saying that the beatdown that Videl received at the hands of Spopovich and the beatdown that Goku received at the hands of Vegeta are very different, and Videl's thrashing would've invoked roughly the same feelings if Videl would've been a male.

To the exact same extent? Maybe not. But while Videl's brutalization might be slightly gender-skewed, it is NOT gender-exclusive.

[Fionordequester]

I'm picturing Mr. Satan being brutalized right now, and my reaction is about the same. In fact, in a way, it's even MORE horrifying because I know that at least Videl is probably made of sterner stuff than Mr. Satan.

Also, she was NOT as mentally strong as the other DBZ characters, as you say rereboy. She was actually crying at the end of that fight because the pain was so extreme. I mean, we've seen something like two other DBZ characters cry (Vegeta against Frieza and Gohan against Cell), but that was because of emotional heartache, which, while sad, isn't as horrifying as crying because that's how badly you're being brutalized by some psychopath.

[Cipher]

Videl stands out to me as well (though she may not be the single worst example) much, much less because she's a woman, but because she's more or less a "normal" fighter at that point in the series, who suddenly has the absolute snot beat out of her by a "super-powered" fighter. There's no ki, no super-sonic action, just an increasingly sadistic beat-down she has little chance against and is utterly unprepared to handle.

It's also dishonest to ignore that the series takes on a much more horror-tinged tone and a much more serious portrayal of violence for those scenes. It lingers on it in a way it doesn't in more even-sided combat, even when the injuries are more serious on paper. It's not the same as say, were even 18 to be beaten up, and indeed she is against both Cell and Trunks in his future. It's much less the gender, and much more the type of fighter involved and the tone of the scenes.

In short, I'm a huge supporter of feminist readings of everything, but I agree with Cursed Lemon above. Our reactions may be slightly gender-skewed, but it's not gender-exclusive.

Other things, though? I'll give mention to the Kaioshin's brief attempt to escape from Majin Boo after he's first released, which always makes me cringe a bit. He gets his head clapped, then Majin Boo drops himself on his back, and once again it has this tone of real horror and violence and he's a shaking, bloody wreck afterward. It's a really awful moment.

[RandomGuy96]

Oh yeah, Fat Buu is nearly as sadistic as his two 'brothers'. While he doesn't do anything like force himself down your throat until you explode, or shrink you and stomp on you while you're still aware (or at least that's implied), he's still damn brutal. Something he likes to pull (he did it against Dabra and Vegeta) is inflict injuries on his enemies that make them cry blood, which always makes me cringe.

[flashback0180]

I...really don't think the in-universe justification of WHY she got the shit kicked out of her is particularly relevant.

She got the shit kicked out of her - to ............


Heck, even Yamcha versus Cell Jr is probably a worse beat down than Videl since he was totally beat up and had his arm broken.

I don't deny that Videl received a brutal beating, but the series shows us a lot worse many times and a lot of more uneven fights. The only difference is that she was a woman and that we weren't used to seeing that character or any women get beat up so much. That's it.

That's what i think too, Some of the fights are so brutal.
comparing to that her fight looks normal.

[thekingfallsdown]

As far as brutality goes, I'd say this scene qualifies.



Led by this:



And to a lesser extent:



Okay maybe these are more grotesque than brutal, but they still always struck a chord with me.

[rereboy]

I'm picturing Mr. Satan being brutalized right now, and my reaction is about the same. In fact, in a way, it's even MORE horrifying because I know that at least Videl is probably made of sterner stuff than Mr. Satan.

Also, she was NOT as mentally strong as the other DBZ characters, as you say rereboy. She was actually crying at the end of that fight because the pain was so extreme. I mean, we've seen something like two other DBZ characters cry (Vegeta against Freeza and Gohan against Cell), but that was because of emotional heartache, which, while sad, isn't as horrifying as crying because that's how badly you're being brutalized by some psychopath.

Not really.

First, if you are going to picture Mr. Satatn then you have to assume the difference between him and the opponent would be exactly the same as between Videl and her opponent. So, it doesn't any sense to think that Mr. Satan would be weaker. That's not putting him in her place.

Second, if Videl wasn't mentally strong she would have given up. She never did. So, no. Her crying just means that she is more attuned to her feelings, like women generally are, not that she is mentally weaker.

[DBZAOTA482]

I'm picturing Mr. Satan being brutalized right now, and my reaction is about the same. In fact, in a way, it's even MORE horrifying because I know that at least Videl is probably made of sterner stuff than Mr. Satan.

Also, she was NOT as mentally strong as the other DBZ characters, as you say rereboy. She was actually crying at the end of that fight because the pain was so extreme. I mean, we've seen something like two other DBZ characters cry (Vegeta against Freeza and Gohan against Cell), but that was because of emotional heartache, which, while sad, isn't as horrifying as crying because that's how badly you're being brutalized by some psychopath.

Not really.

First, if you are going to picture Mr. Satatn then you have to assume the difference between him and the opponent would be exactly the same as between Videl and her opponent. So, it doesn't any sense to think that Mr. Satan would be weaker. That's not putting him in her place.

Second, if Videl wasn't mentally strong she would have given up. She never did. So, no. Her crying just means that she is more attuned to her feelings, like women generally are, not that she is mentally weaker.

Not to mention she wasn't really crying in the manga.

[rereboy]

Videl stands out to me as well (though she may not be the single worst example) much, much less because she's a woman, but because she's more or less a "normal" fighter at that point in the series, who suddenly has the absolute snot beat out of her by a "super-powered" fighter. There's no ki, no super-sonic action, just an increasingly sadistic beat-down she has little chance against and is utterly unprepared to handle.

She had every chance. She was arguably stronger than him and was even able to break his neck. Even with her inability to really hurt him, she could have figured out a way to force him out of bounds, but she simply didn't manage to. Her beat down only happened because she refused to give up even after her stamina was spent and because her opponent didn't want to end it by throwing her out of bounds. I fail to see how her being a normal fighter has any bearing in it being more impressive if her opponent is well within her range of power, if she had every chance because of it and if beat downs in the series usually involve a sadistic tone and a a good deal of hand to hand contact.

[soulnova]

I guess Vegeta took the most BEATINGS... I would argue some of them among the worst on the series:

Earthlings VS Vegeta

Zarbon VS Vegeta

Recoome VS Vegeta

Freeza VS Vegeta

18 VS Vegeta

Perfect Cell VS Vegeta

Buu VS Vegeta

Kid Buu VS Vegeta (several times?)



Goku vs King Piccolo
Goku vs Piccolo JR
Goku vs Raditz

Goku vs Freeza?

On most of the rest encounters, Goku seemed to have a fighting chance... and didn't get completely wrecked like Vegeta.

I would put Videl's beating up here too.

[KentalSSJ6]

Vegeta getting bent in half over 13's thigh is a scene I seem to think of a lot when I think of a beating.

[DBZAOTA482]

Vegeta getting bent in half over 13's thigh is a seen I seem to think of a lot when I think of a beating.

Well, shit. I never noticed that. This movie is funny for all the wrong reasons at several instances (when it actually tries to be funny, it's just not), it seems.