My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

[Kid Buu]

You spoiled me with the once a week pacing of the 22nd Budokai, next thing I know you'll start doing 5 minute recaps to stall more time.

[Herms]

Anybody who has a problem with Oolong's narration box would probably drop dead if they ever tried picking up a volume of Hunter x Hunter.

[DBZAOTA482]

I find that to be a stretch, not that Piccolo's the first strong being he's had a chance to talk to

Actually, he is. In fact he's the first being Cell has ever talked to.

[ABED]

I find that to be a stretch, not that Piccolo's the first strong being he's had a chance to talk to

Actually, he is. In fact he's the first being Cell has ever talked to.

I think you misread my statement, that wasn't my issue, but in any case, he had plenty of opportunity to tell his human victims.

In any case, Gaffer did a great job of explaining my beef with the Cell scene in contrast with the Oolong scene. Both weren't great ways of giving exposition, but I take more issue with Cell for the reasons stated.

[DBZAOTA482]

I find that to be a stretch, not that Piccolo's the first strong being he's had a chance to talk to

Actually, he is. In fact he's the first being Cell has ever talked to.

I think you misread my statement, that wasn't my issue, but in any case, he had plenty of opportunity to tell his human victims.

Excuse me but didn't you specifically say strong victims and emphasis on "strong"? I doubt Cell would consider any of his human victims "strong".

Either way, I agree with it being bad storytelling having Cell going into lengthy detail about his backstory not just because it destroyed much of the mystery aspect to him but it made the already convoluted time travel plot point even more confusing to the audience. Rather than having him basically explaining his entire reason of existence, have him throw hints instead. It's more in-character and adds to the mystery aspect as well as making him look less like an idiot.

[ABED]

No, I was indicating what the pronoun "that" was referring to in the sentence because it was vague without it. I'm aware that Piccolo is the first strong being that he's come across, but he's not the first person he's come across. I found it a stretch that he'd care enough to tell Piccolo his entire life story. I understand taunting but the sheer amount of useless information from a creature that was clever and slippery felt at odds with his character and the mystery surrounding that season.

convoluted time travel

To be fair, time travel stories are pretty much always convoluted, even the great ones. For instance, Kyle Reese being John Connor's father. Sarah Connor was right, you could drive yourself crazy thinking about it.

[DBZAOTA482]

To be fair, time travel stories are pretty much always convoluted, even the great ones. For instance, Kyle Reese being John Connor's father. Sarah Connor was right, you could drive yourself crazy thinking about it.

Well, the convolution isn't a problem to me ... just stuff about it that simply make no sense at all that confused things.

[ABED]

To be fair, time travel stories are pretty much always convoluted, even the great ones. For instance, Kyle Reese being John Connor's father. Sarah Connor was right, you could drive yourself crazy thinking about it.

Well, the convolution isn't a problem to me ... just stuff about it that simply make no sense at all that confused things.

Such as?

[DBZAOTA482]

To be fair, time travel stories are pretty much always convoluted, even the great ones. For instance, Kyle Reese being John Connor's father. Sarah Connor was right, you could drive yourself crazy thinking about it.

Well, the convolution isn't a problem to me ... just stuff about it that simply make no sense at all that confused things.

Such as?

Just about everyone revolving around Cell. The stuff before then made perfect sense.

[ABED]

I'm still not sure how that makes any less sense than other time travel stories.

[Fionordequester]

Well boys, I had just about had it. I was cold, and alone, and afraid. I was in a land that said it was Dragon Ball, but was something very much something else. I felt cold, lurid sweat across my brow as I floated through the vast oblivion, swimming.

Yes, I found myself SWIMMING through a sea of wangs...an ocean of butts...an army of perverted old men...people speaking gibberish...Goku killing basically EVERYTHING...no blaring orchestral/rock/techno music playing every single second in every single episode...And most of all, a flooding of laugh-out loud comedy that was completely different from the testosterone inducing footage of bubble gum creatures, robots, and muscly, screaming men in speedos that I had come to call "Dragon Ball Z"...and then, a light shone out in the darkness. A sign that I was, indeed, watching a Dragon Ball property, because, as we all know, no matter what era of Dragon Ball we watch, no matter how different the tone, no matter how much ANYTHING is different, there is always, always one constant that one can always count on...

Yamcha Failing...hard.

Yeah NOW I know I'm watching Dragon Ball!!!...ok, so obviously there are some things I'm playing up for comedy effect. And of course I've still been having fun since this thread has started. And I don't know for certain whether or not Yamcha fails just as hard as he does in Dragon Ball Z, but if he does...well...then it's amazing how some things never change, isn't it?

But yeah, this was a fun episode. It's weird watching Yamcha shouting about how he's gonna put his blade in the guts of anyone who doesn't give him money, but then, I'm assuming that's just something he's saying to appear threatening. I don't remember him actually being that bad of a guy in the manga, even in the very beginning, so it'd be weird seeing him just palling around with Bulma the way he does without ever actually having a heel realization or anything (which I don't remember him having). Kind of like the way Team Rocket tries to be all threatening and stuff, yet, you just know that they wouldn't actually feel that good about it if they actually SUCCEEDED at killing any one...or at least, it'd be strange that Puar was following him around when she seems like such a goody two-shoes compared to Oolong.

That really is an hilarious weakness he has btw...SHOOT! If only he had scouted the party out, and looked to see if there were any women there! If only there weren't any women at all. Why, then he would be the perfect bandit, why wouldn't he?

Speaking of women though...I really don't know how to feel about how Bulma's treating Oolong. If it were anyone else, I'd be absolutely despising her right now, but with Oolong? Well, he IS kind of a jerk, he IS kind of a pervert, and he HAS kind of been kidnapping and robbing people for a good long while. Not to mention, there's always the fact that, if they turn him loose, he'll probably just go and do it all again. I mean, heck, if anything, it may have been a good thing to give him that candy, so that Bulma might be able to say something along the lines of...

"Ok, I got the Dragon Balls, BUT, if I ever see you bullying anyone else again, well..."

"...you know what's gonna happen, don't you?"

"...Ulp..."

Anyways though, that's that. See you all next time!

[Kid Buu]

Yamcha accomplishes a few things in the first arc. Sadly, his big moment is actually this arc and he never really dont anything noticeable again until the Baba stuff starts.

[ABED]

Will you be reviewing the movies?

Just a suggestion, but you should put the title of the episode you are reviewing.

[Fionordequester]

Hello everyone, welcome to...

Dragon Ball Episode #6: Keep an Eye on the Balls!

Well...I had to get pretty creative with this one, considering that I didn't want to watch Bulma naked. But after I found a way to watch almost all of it while making sure I didn't suffer the same fate Yamcha did...holy jeez do I have mixed feelings about this one...

In fact, honestly, I was expecting to really hate this episode. Out of all the things that any of our protragonists have ever done...well, what Vegeta did was still more despicable, obviously, but Oolong isn't nearly as far off as he should be on that list. And the worst part is, his behavior was actually surprisingly realistic for someone with his motives. It's one thing to draw the exaggerated anime expressions, and make a situation where Oolong tries to feel up Bulma...but what makes it all worse is that, if you listen to what Oolong says, it's EXACTLY the kind of thing a real life sexual offender (not necessarily a rapist, but a sex offender nonetheless) would say to justify his/her behavior, and I say that as someone who's gotten very far into his Psychology major.

He spends nearly the entire episode insulting Bulma. Calling her stuck up, saying that she needs an attitude adjustment, expressing how much contempt he has for her, saying "I could say the same about you" when Bulma asks him what kind of childhood made him the way he is (so basically calling her a skank)...and then there's the overalls and white undershirt. Everything about him just reeks of the sort of "women should stay in the kitchen and do whatever you tell them too!" that you'd expect back in the days when the women's rights movement had yet to really pick up steam (anyone who lives in America will probably understand what I mean). This isn't even me trying to analyze things, this is stuff that was coming at me subconsciously. So, I hate this episode...or at least, I WOULD'VE hated this episode if it weren't for a few things...

1) Yeah, that disgust I had for Oolong? Turns out, the soundtrack actually agreed with me! Yeah, I was worried for a bit considering that the music was kind of whimsical for a bit, even AFTER Bulma drank the drugged drink, but, later on, when Oolong was sneaking around, and almost felt up Bulma? Yeah, I guess even the soundtrack wasn't so amused. Not only that, but...

2) Oolong...doesn't get screwed over SUPER hard...but he does end up going for a whole night without sleep, and probably ends up being fairly frightened of the possibility of Yamcha coming back. So in other words, he's not rewarded in any way, shape, or form.

So, yeah, oddly enough, I actually felt kind of good inside, just because this Episode affirmed to me that, even though Japan (in my opinion) goes too far with it's openness in sexuality...it still has STANDARDS at the very least. It's good to hear that, yeah, Japan isn't too keen on drugging teenage girls before fondling them either. It still has a feel for when enough is enough, which is, at the very least, more than I can say for a certain popular internet critic.......

(ACCCCHHOOOORedLetterMediaCOUGHCOUGH!!!)













...Oh, shoot, did I sneeze? I meant to say RedLetterMedia. Yeah, mix the disturbing rapist/psychotic breakdown sequences in his Star Wars reviews, and add on him greatly exaggerating the faults of the Star Wars Prequels (except for Episode 2 I guess...his complaints were pretty on-point for that one), and you've got someone who's success, I just don't understand.

So onto more pleasant topics, I'll tell you another reason why this episode worked, and that's that it's fricken FUNNY! Yeah, I know I said that for the previous episodes, but I said that more logically. I didn't really LAUGH that much, watching them, but I praised them anyways, because I felt that I knew where the jokes worked, and plus, I was nervous because we kind of got the thread off on the wrong foot, and I didn't want to scare anyone else away anymore than I already had (I mean...I'm human too you know ...).

But this time? I mean it wholeheartedly. I mean really, when you had already seen Yamcha flip his stuff the first two times with Bulma, and you saw every little step that would culminate in Yamcha learning everything about Bulma that he never WANTED to know...you just knew, "ok, this is NOT gonna be pleasant for him !"). And it's also just really hilarious, watching someone go through two completely opposite ends of the spectrum on how he feels about women. He WANTS to be with a woman, he DOESN'T want to be with a woman, he WANTS to be intimidating, but only when there's no woman around...he's basically the Jack Spicer, or the Dr. Drakken of Dragon Ball right now. He wants to be a villain, but he fails at it because he's a walking mass of complexes...

That said, if there's one weakness I believe this episode had, it's that I really think we're spending too much time with Pilaf and the gang. I remember one bit of wisdom my Grandpa said, about how you never want to be following around too many people in any kind of animated work or movie, and I think now that we have Yamcha's shenanigans, that Pilaf and co. are starting to be somewhat extraneous. Right now they're under the Team Rocket problem of showing up in so many episodes, that watching them do the exact same schtick they've done in every other episode before, starts to get old really fast...

But, that's one thing. And frankly, I'm surprised it's ONLY that one thing. I was already playing out this whole bit in my head about how "Akira Toriyama went too far this time", or "thank GOODNESS DBZ came out first, otherwise, I'dve quit right here!", or...well, various things like that. But, turns out, that's not the case. Because as it turns out, Akira Toriyama IS willing to show restraint even in his perverted tendencies, which, I...really appreciate.

EDIT: Oh yes, and Yamcha's voice actor...well, ok, gather around guys. You listening? You positive you are? Ok then...

I think, if Yamcha's VA keeps turning in performances like this...I might actually like him better than Chris Sabat....yeah, I'm serious! Mr. Hardcore, dub loving, Team Faulconer guy...just said he might start liking Japanese Yamcha better than English Yamcha! Mainly, what's impressing me thus far is his range, from really firm, but smooth as his regular voice, to SHRIEKING LIKE A BANSHEE when he's angry or scared, to babbling like he had a lobotomy when he accidently stumbled onto Bulma, to having this really blockish, meek voice when he was pretending to apologize to the gang...

You can just tell that whoever voiced Yamcha had a ton of fun playing the character. So, that's my review for Episode 6. Have a nice night, and God Bless you all!

[Kid Buu]

Yeah, episode 6 made it hard to root for Oolong. Thankfully Yamcha saved the day there....one of his few accomplishments in the series and he doesn't even realize it!

[Fionordequester]

...Ah, shoot, you reminded me of something I wanted to put in the review, but forgot! Read the edited post above to see.

[Kid Buu]

That's the legendary Tōru Furuya who voices him. He also voices Tuxedo Mask in Sailor Moon, Pegasus Seiya in Saint Seiya, and Amuro Ray in Mobile Suit Gundam.

[ABED]

You are reading WAY too much into Oolong and Bulma yelling at each other to the point where you draw a parallel to the women's rights movement. It's not like it's Gohan saying those things, it's Oolong for crying out loud.

How dare you, sir. There's no such thing as too much Pilaf.

you never want to be following around too many people in any kind of animated work or movie

You think that's too many characters?

[Fionordequester]

Dragon Ball Episode #7: Ox King on Fire Mountain

... ... ... ... ... ....

So is Ox King supposed to be a horrible human being? Or is it just me? I mean, he...

1) Tries to kill a 12 year old boy who clearly didn't have a clue what was going on (however strong he may have been).

2) Sends his 12 year old daughter way the heck out into the wilderness, in a bra and lingerie, with absolutely nothing to help her find Master Roshi, nor any way of crossing the ocean even if she DID know where he was. So basically, either something going to happen to her, or she's going to kill a dozen other people by mistaking them for bad guys like she did with Yamcha.

3) Ox King does this without having any way of locating Chi Chi if she gets lost. I mean, they don't have cell phones or the like, so if something happens to her, his chances of finding her are slim indeed.

4) And why does he do all this? Well, as far as I can tell, it's because.

I mean, I know, I know, I'm thinking harder than I was probably intended to. But how am I supposed to connect with any story where I have to forcefully shut off my brain? And I dunno, maybe Chi Chi attacked Yamcha because...well, he looked like a bandit or something. I mean, he wears a patch on his chest with some Japanese writing on it, so for all I know, that Japanese symbol means "bandit" or "ne'er-do-well" or something like that...but as for the rest...

Well...yeah, thank goodness a 12 year old boy came along, just HAPPENED to be super strong, just HAPPENED to have a flying cloud, just HAPPENED to be willing to help the man who tried to kill him, just HAPPENED to know where Master Roshi was, and...well jeez, just about everyone used to be much more of a jerk in Dragon Ball, didn't they? It's honestly kind of funny that way, and more than a bit cool to know that all of these guys become better people as time went on. I guess if there's one good thing I can say about the jerkwaddery of Bulma, Oolong, Krillin, and everyone else, it's that it makes me appreciate their Z-selves all that much more !!

That aside...this episode was weeiiiiiird. I honestly felt like the characters were thinking along an entirely different plane than I was. I don't understand why Yamcha felt that saying he was in love with Chi Chi was the most convincing thing he could come up with. I'm not sure what Ox King was filling Chi Chi's head with to make her react to Goku's actions the way she did, or for that matter, to make her react to Yamcha the way she did. And Oolong...well, unless the show's trying to imply that he truly does not have any standards, I don't get his fixation on both older women AND 12 year old girls. And if that IS what the show's implying...yeah, that's getting a little creepy ...

That and...apparently, Goku is the fricken Beastmaster?



Honestly, that was actually kind of hilarious just for how random it was, but...really? I mean, I know he did that with a Pterodactyl all the way back in Episode 1, but, that was different. I mean, it's kind of a thing in JRPG's that animals that are either really old, really powerful, or a mix of the two (like Dragons) tend to be able to talk, since those are somewhat mythical in nature. So it's weird when even common day animals are also, apparently able to talk...

And before you ask, yes, I get why the show is playing fast and loose with the rules. It's because it's focused on comedy more than it is on making sense. But my problem is that there's not enough logic to what the characters have to do to get to those jokes, which weakens the joke. I mean, part of what made Episode 6 work so brilliantly is that it worked in all those hilarious jokes with Yamcha while still working within the bounds of what a normal person (relatively speaking of course) would do to make those situations possible. I felt like I was in on the joke right along with them, and in fact, the joke worked so much better because of the fact that I could anticipate the pay-off at every step, thinking "oh man, Yamcha is SOOOOO going to get owned !!"...

Not here though. Here I just felt like I was totally out of the loop for most of it, aside from the gag with Pilaf and his gang. That's one joke at least where I could follow along with the logic. But when I can't follow along...well, at best, it means the punchline of the jokes is lost on me, and at worst, it makes me think that Akira's just being plain lazy with how he's setting up his jokes. He can't think of a logical set up, so, he just doesn't try...at least, that's how I feel. In fact, that's also the reason I didn't enjoy the Episode with Launch, back when I had decided to skip this series of episodes altogether.

Oh well, not all of them can be home runs I guess!

[ABED]

I guess if there's one good thing I can say about the jerkwaddery of Bulma, Oolong, Krillin, and everyone else, it's that it makes me appreciate their Z-selves all that much more !!

It doesn't take them that long to change. It doesn't take them until Z to change. Okay, Bulma's change is more gradual.

That aside...this episode was weeiiiiiird. I honestly felt like the characters were thinking along an entirely different plane than I was. I don't understand why Yamcha felt that saying he was in love with Chi Chi was the most convincing thing he could come up with. I'm not sure what Ox King was filling Chi Chi's head with to make her react to Goku's actions the way she did, or for that matter, to make her react to Yamcha the way she did. And Oolong...well, unless the show's trying to imply that he truly does not have any standards, I don't get his fixation on both older women AND 12 year old girls. And if that IS what the show's implying...yeah, that's getting a little creepy ...

He came up with it because it's funny. Chichi's ideas of romance and marriage came a little bit from her father, but most likely magazines and TV. You act like Yamcha and Bulma are so much older than the others. They aren't. They're only 16 at this point. It's not that weird, when you were 12, didn't you have crushes on girls that were several grades ahead of you? Why is it creepy that Oolong likes girls and older women? Again, Bulma's sixteen.

And before you ask, yes, I get why the show is playing fast and loose with the rules.

What rules? Most of the animals are anthropomorphic. The world is still setting up its rules. A pig and a cat can talk, but you have issues with a dolphin?