The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

[Mystic Buu]

Cell Saga isn't bad.But I also don't find it good.

[penguintruth]

How is the Cell arc the best story-wise or character-wise? As AttitudeFan said, the characters act selfishly OOC just to get the plot going

Nobody acts OoC in the Cell arc. Many of them act foolishly, but not out of character.

Acting foolishly is not necessarily being out of character if a character is prone to foolishness.

The closest I can think of is SSJ2 Gohan wanting Cell to suffer instead of finishing him quickly, but that's out of pure rage.

[TheUltimateVegito]

How is the Cell arc the best story-wise or character-wise? As AttitudeFan said, the characters act selfishly OOC just to get the plot going, there's no real consequences to anything that happens, and the villains don't have any mental effect on the heroes.

Where do I start...

The saga really is the ultimate/final saga of Dragonball's continuation. Dragonball progressed from grunts to essentially the most powerful beings in the universe. So where do we go after that? Not a saga based on some random alien or an ancient god of some sorts but a saga in which past events lay the foundations of it and every event after that leading up to this particular saga. That, my friends, is the Android Saga.

We have Trunks and Cell, who are basically the pioneers of the events of the saga and we get to see their back stories and how their actions intertwine with one another (Further emphasized by facts like Trunks killing Cell twice and vice versa, both Cell and Trunk's time machine labeled with "hope" etc.) We have Time Machines and Time Travelling, which was revealed to be alternate dimensions stemmed from paradoxes.

We have a saga which is essentially Goku's fault and the plot revolving around him yet he barely does anything. Goku never won a fight, heck even Vegeta saves him! This paved the way for other characters like Trunks, Piccolo, Vegeta and Gohan to have their own chance to shine and to be temporary VIPs. There's also the theme of passing the torch and past actions having consequences. Goku is the reason behind many villains coming to earth (Saiyans, Frieza, Androids) and like he said in the English Dub, it was almost as if he was unintentionally carrying out the mission he was sent to earth in the first place for - Destroying it. Which is why he choose to stay dead and pass the torch unto his son.

We have Dr.Gero, a mad genius scientist, bent on revenge ever since Goku destroyed the Red Ribbon army as a child, studies him, analysis him via data extracted from spy robots and creates Androids to exceed the powers he calculated for Goku and the others to achieve. This is a fantastic way of creating villains directly from earth as it dates back to events of the original Dragonball. If this saga took place in say the Supreme Kai's land, will the events be as tangible? Nope. Dragonball started on earth and it is fitting for what essentially should have been the final saga to take place entirely on earth, especially after coming out of the Namek saga.

We have the Time Chamber, Super Saiyans, Ascended Saiyans and the limitations of them, Piccolo reuniting with Kami, Cell Games, Gohan's character being fully developed, Goku staying dead and passing the torch, Vegeta and Trunks' relationship, and even some of the humans having their moments (Krillin vs Imperfect Cell and Tien's Neo Tri Beam). We have a villain that is truly fit to be the final villain, Cell is a bio-organism created from the cells of the most powerful beings in the universe, including Frieza (which made Frieza's arrival have more of a reason than showing Trunks' badassery and giving Goku more reason to stay dead) he has ambition, he's diverse (all his forms bring different personalities) he went from a calculated predator, to a cool guy who wanted to test his limits and prove his perfection via Cells Games (which was also a nice throwback to the original DB Tenkaichi Budokais, and was perfect for Gohan)

There's also the fact that 17 and 18 were fail safes and Cell was a fail safe for the fail safes. Genius.

And I honestly don't believe they were OOC moments, the only one I would sorta agree with is Piccolo allowing Imperfect Cell to trick him.

We knew Krillin wanted to have a wife/girlfriend for a while now, and he developed a crush for 18. He also believed that she didn't deserve the fate of being shut down after Dr.Gero forced her to be an Android. Krillin not shutting down 18 can be considered stupid on Krillin's part but it's understandable and not OOC.

Vegeta let Cell achieve perfection because Cell manipulated Vegeta's desire to fight strong opponents, if anything it stands testament to Cell's character and his knowledge of the Z-fighters.

Gohan was not OOC in the Cell Games because, like many others said, he never was in this kind of situation before. Gohan only fights when necessary and believed the Cell Games was pointless. Plus, it's not like Gohan didn't want to fight during the Cell Jrs attacks, heck he even tried charging at Cell but Cell stopped him. He also mentioned how he wanted the power to fight Cell and save his friends (which is why he fights in the first place, for his friends) also Gohan matured more and became more aware of his potential (no doubt the results of training in the ROSAT and becoming a Super Saiyan).

As for flaws... I honestly don't see much from this saga. Don't get me wrong, there are some flaws but they're pretty minor and aren't something that would ruin the story.

For example, Cell's regeneration is infamous but I honestly think it was a smart way to bring him back as it was a testament to his perfect design.
Cell never said he needed his head to regenerate, only the nucleus inside his head. If he needed his head then he definitely shouldn't have regenerated from self destructing as well as Goku's IT kamehameha.
Cell's Zenkai Boost was simply a combination of Zenkai and SSJ2, you can tell that by just looking at him!
Cell learning IT just shows how intelligent Cell was, it's kinda like Tien mastering the Mafuba.

Yes, it was never stated exactly how Dr.Gero built the Androids and how Bulma created the Time Machine. But that's like asking why Frieza and his henchmen were so strong and how were scouters created. It's Toriyama's style.

So yeah, all this and more makes for best saga of the entire series in my book.

[Kid Buu]

You could argue the Cell Saga starts off with an out-of-character shenanigan with the whole Yamcha/Bulma/Vegeta scenario.

[TheSonofKakarrot]

Am I the only one that thought this thread was gonna be about TV ratings?

Nope. I did too.

I thought I read that the Cell episodes were the highest rated eps of any season. Or at least the highest rated episode in the franchise was from this saga [in Japan].

[DBZAOTA482]

You could argue the Cell Saga starts off with an out-of-character shenanigan with the whole Yamcha/Bulma/Vegeta scenario.

I'm inclined to agree with this. First, she lets a mass-murdering sociopath crash at her place (whom she was afraid of) then drops Yamcha like a bad habit and fucks said sociopath responsible for his first death. What's worse is that she talks shit about the deceased Yamcha to his son. That's shady even by Bulma standards.

[B]

The closest I can think of is SSJ2 Gohan wanting Cell to suffer instead of finishing him quickly, but that's out of pure rage.

And that's a beautiful moment. It's intentionally out of character because of the circumstances surrounding it. When this happens and you think "GOHAN YOU FUCKING IDIOT WHAT ARE YOU DOING," that's, to my perception, the intended response.

It's kind of the same thing with SSJ2 being triggered by 16. Of course Gohan is not specifically attached to 16. It's the complete senselessness of Cell's violent act. He didn't have to die like that and was already decapitated. Cell threw salt in a wound for shits and giggles, and anyone of reasonable decency would hate him for it.

[Attitudefan]

Is it okay with you if I link people to this comment whenever people ask why the Cell arc sucks?

You can, but don't misinterpret it by saying I hate it or that the arc itself is poorly written; it is sub-par compared to lots of story writing inside and outside of Dragonball. It starts off well with some great ideas but never capitalizes on it enough to warrant praise. There are certain reactions to actions but never capitalizes on that where it jumps out at the viewer, ala the Cyborgs. 17 was mishandled where he essentially does nothing but serve as fodder for Cell and the plot despite what he was shown to be capable of (destroying our heroes who just took out Freeza, Cold, Gero and 19).

I don't hate the arc, but I find it severely lacks in a coherent story and bounces around GREAT ideas in which those ideas, sadly, go nowhere.

Also, can we stop using the word "saga", it is being used incorrectly. The proper term is "arc" such as a "story arc". In English, people do not say "story saga", a "saga" is more or less a complete story or myth. Arcs are mini-stories within a grander tale.

[ABED]

How is it incoherent?

Saga can just mean long story, I think the Cell arc qualifies.

[Attitudefan]

How is it incoherent?

Saga can just mean long story, I think the Cell arc qualifies.

Incoherent might not be the right word (oh the irony of me complaining about words lol), but I find that the arc doesn't know what tone it wants to set, who are the villains, the lore gets an overhaul regarding Super Saiyans which makes a lot of the talk of the Super Saiyan in the Freeza arc is nullified by the time the next arc comes along. At first, with Trunks, it wsa a neat mystery, but by the time the Cyborgs are mentioned, everything starts to fall apart, including the intergalactic villains who were supposed to have technology and power way beyond Earth; yet, here we are, with Earth technology surpassing legend. Then we get the grades of Super Saiyan.

The characters have really irrational decisions and character development. Why is Vegeta with the Earthlings and why do they accept him? How is it possible for Bulma to like Vegeta at all? If she loves him for being alien and badass, she would've ended up with Piccolo already since he qualifies under those prerequisites. How can Yamcha agree to live with Vegeta? Why does Krillin develop a love interest over a murderous machine (who actually murders no one in the present timeline)? How come Tenshinhan is powerful enough to hold back Cell yet is still considered weak and unable to keep up with the rest of the cast? He trained in death for two or three years under 10x Earth's gravity (a feat in itself) and amounts to NOTHING! What was the point to have them at Kaio's planet if it does nothing for the plot?

Who is the true villain as well? Cell? The Cyborgs? Vegeta? Gero? Who is the hero? Trunks? Goku? Gohan? It isn't clear unlike what we had previously. It doesn't know who it wants to be the antagonist and who wants to be the protagonist. It reminds me of the Star Wars prequels. It wants to be dark and does things to say "hey look, it's a dark story!! oooooohhhh" but has many moments and actions by characters that contradict that. 2nd form Cell comes to mind despite him blowing up islands filled with life. He's a goof. The Cyborgs are all scary, until they dick around and do nothing.

[ABED]

Cell is clearly the main villain, it's all leading to him. I'm not sure how that's unclear.

I can't believe I'm defending the prequels, but the films get progressively darker. There's always going to be moments of levity.

Kuririn - she's not a murderer, but at first it starts as a crush on a beautiful mysterious woman.

As for Super Saiyan, I don't think the Saiyans had the gravity rooms like Dr. Brief made.

[Attitudefan]

Cell is clearly the main villain, it's all leading to him. I'm not sure how that's unclear.

I can't believe I'm defending the prequels, but the films get progressively darker. There's always going to be moments of levity.

Kuririn - she's not a murderer, but at first it starts as a crush on a beautiful mysterious woman.

As for Super Saiyan, I don't think the Saiyans had the gravity rooms like Dr. Brief made.

Maybe I'm grasping at staws here to try to say stuff that I haven't already said. I admit, it is a weak argument. However, my argument on action vs consequence, I feel, still holds up well enough.

[ABED]

Cell is clearly the main villain, it's all leading to him. I'm not sure how that's unclear.

I can't believe I'm defending the prequels, but the films get progressively darker. There's always going to be moments of levity.

Kuririn - she's not a murderer, but at first it starts as a crush on a beautiful mysterious woman.

As for Super Saiyan, I don't think the Saiyans had the gravity rooms like Dr. Brief made.

Maybe I'm grasping at staws here to try to say stuff that I haven't already said. I admit, it is a weak argument. However, my argument on action vs consequence, I feel, still holds up well enough.

No, I agree with a number of your points, I think it could've been a better written story.

[thatdbzguy]

Nobody acts OoC in the Cell arc. Many of them act foolishly, but not out of character.

Vegeta being willing to stay with Bulma is OOC.

Yamcha suddenly becoming a cheater is OOC.

Bulma suddenly, with absolutely no build-up whatsoever, having a thing for the guy who killed her friends is OOC.

Krillin choosing to save a cyborg he barely even knew over saving the entire world is OOC.

Gohan asking Cell to stop fighting even though he knew Cell would refuse (and also taking into account that he never asked a villain to stop fighting before) is OOC.

I think it could've been a better written story.

Understatement of the century right here.

[Kid Buu]

I have to admit one characterization thing that always bothered me is that Piccolo was mad that Goku was making Gohan fight Cell despite Piccolo doing the same thing in the Nappa battle? I know he had fused with Nail and Kami, but its said that the Namek fusion wont alter personality.

In-fact I think its mostly this moment where the "Piccolo is Gohan's real dad" stuff comes from.

[chaosyoshimage]

Krillin choosing to save a cyborg he barely even knew over saving the entire world is OOC.

I try to stay out of these threads, but this one seems really, really shortsighted. From Kuririn's (And our own) point of view, 18 has done no wrong. A character with a good nature like Kuririn not wanting to kill an innocent person is about as far from being "out of character" as can be. Him killing her would have been a betrayal of his character (And a far less interesting story). It's not even like this plot thread comes out of nowhere, it's telegraphed from early on with Kuririn straight up asking (Multiple times, I think, but it might've been once) if the Artificial Humans in this timeline are really as bad as the ones in Trunks' timeline.

[B]

Yamcha suddenly becoming a cheater is OOC.

You know, this is something that stems from the fact Toriyama doesn't dwell on the details of these guys' everyday lives, and I think that's a good thing. It leaves a little mystery. The interesting thing about Yamcha is that he's the type of pretty boy character who, in any other story, would be the heroic lead and get the girl and blah blah blah(A bit of meta to this is Tohru Furuya's role as Saint Seiya's titular character). But this is Dragon Ball, where first appearances and expectations be damned, and Yamcha is actually a bit of a loser. But if you stop and think about the ordeal of getting over his fear of women, a guy as conventionally attractive as Yamcha, combined with Bulma's shrillness, might be tempted to make up for lost time. I don't think there's anything "sudden" about it, when you consider the gaps in time DB has. Bulma and Yamcha are dating on and off for around thirteen years.

[penguintruth]

Vegeta being willing to stay with Bulma is OOC.

Yamcha suddenly becoming a cheater is OOC.

Bulma suddenly, with absolutely no build-up whatsoever, having a thing for the guy who killed her friends is OOC.

Krillin choosing to save a cyborg he barely even knew over saving the entire world is OOC.

Gohan asking Cell to stop fighting even though he knew Cell would refuse (and also taking into account that he never asked a villain to stop fighting before) is OOC.

NONE OF THOSE THINGS ARE OUT OF CHARACTER. They're just things you didn't like. Even if a few of those things seem hastily dropped in, they do not specifically contradict previously established character depiction, because there are certain elements of the characters' personalities and lives the writer never revealed, as they were never relevant. You could just as easily say Goku getting married and having a child is out of character.

FFS, this argument is absolutely tumor-inducing. I'm making an appointment to get a head scan.

[Kid Buu]

Yamcha was out-of-character in the RRA arc because he actually won a fight.

[mAcChaos]

Bulma was already drooling when she saw Zarbon.