DragonBall Unknowns (Vol.1)

[Mr.Piccolo]

So, in the 6 days that Piccolo was on Kaio-sama's world, the Lord of Worlds saw fit not to teach a lofty character like Piccolo those techniques, but focus simply on making him stronger.

Piccolo and the other definately had to be with kaiosama longer than six days. Or are you keeping in mind the time it took to reach him or his means of testing(i.e. catching bubbles or telling a joke)?

I really like the evil spirit bomb reflection theory. I never thought of it like that. That would be a cool easter egg in a Budokai or something.

[Duo]

Piccolo and the other definately had to be with kaiosama longer than six days. Or are you keeping in mind the time it took to reach him or his means of testing(i.e. catching bubbles or telling a joke)?

Yamcha was there for 136 days and Tenshinhan/Chaozu were there for 266 days. Piccolo was only there for 6 days.

Why?

Because they all show up on Kaio's world not too long before Kaio-sama contacts Goku during his training on his way to Namek, which was the first or second day of him doing such. Goku gets to Namek in 6 days, and Piccolo gets wished back to life and to Namek later that day.

6 days. Maybe less.

But they did get to Kaio-sama much faster. Less than a couple of weeks. Goku took 6 months his first time.

...and now I can't stop thinking of some random scenario in which GT Cell makes a Genki-dama, throws it at Goku, misses, and then Freeza bounces it back...

[Mr.Piccolo]

I see... when it comes to Kaioken, would it make sense for the Kaioshin to know the kaioken technique? I mean, doesn't translate to the fist of the lord of the worlds, so I think someone of a higher rank would know at least that or something better.

[MartianOddity]

I see... when it comes to Kaioken, would it make sense for the Kaioshin to know the kaioken technique? I mean, doesn't translate to the fist of the lord of the worlds, so I think someone of a higher rank would know at least that or something better.

Kaio-Ken means litterally "Kaio-Attack". Kaio in it's turn means "Lord of the Worlds". This makes Kaio-Ken mean "Lord of the Worlds-Attack". At least that's what I recall.
Appareantly he knew how to perform the technique but hadn't managed to pull it off himself, probably because he was too weak to be able to do so.

[Olivier Hague]

Many people feel this is another error in the Daizenshuu.

Er... I beg your pardon? An error?
What kind of "error" would that be? We're not talking about a typo, here! ^_^;

He is more likely based off of a 'Journey to the West' character (can't remember his name, some god with a third eye) like most other DragonBall characters.

Like Gokû. Who is an alien. So I don't see your point.

[Swift]

Kaio-Ken means litterally "Kaio-Attack". Kaio in it's turn means "Lord of the Worlds". This makes Kaio-Ken mean "Lord of the Worlds-Attack". At least that's what I recall.

Yes, basically. Technically, "ken" literally means "fist", but is usually used as an ending for an attack, so in that context it can also be translated as "attack".

Appareantly he knew how to perform the technique but hadn't managed to pull it off himself, probably because he was too weak to be able to do so.

He's talking about Kaioshin though. Why wouldn't Kaioshin be strong enough to use Kaio-ken if Goku could in the Saiyan saga? Surely Kaioshin is stronger then Freeza, at the very least. I never thought about this, actually. When you think about it, he really should have been able to use Kaio-ken... Why wouldn't he have used it against Buu?

[Kaboom]

Kaio-Ken means litterally "Kaio-Attack". Kaio in it's turn means "Lord of the Worlds". This makes Kaio-Ken mean "Lord of the Worlds-Attack". At least that's what I recall.

Erm, close, but not quite.

"Kaio" weans "world(s)."
"Ken" means "fist," and is often used for attack names and stuff.
"Sama" is a high-level honorific, meaning "Lord," or "Master," and junk of that sort.
Sooo...

"Kaio-Ken" = "Fist of Worlds"
"Kaio-Sama" = "Lord of Worlds."

Yay! I know stuff!

[Swift]

Correction: Kai means world, and the o (technically ou or ô) literally means king. Kaiô on it's own means "World King" or "Lord of Worlds". The "-sama", as you said, is an honorific ending showing great respect. It doesn't literally mean Lord or Master, but that's usually how it ends up being translated in English as there's no really another way to say it. Thus, Kaiô-ken means "Lord of Worlds Fist". Notice Piccolo just says "Kaiô", without the -sama.

[Kaboom]

Ooh, touché.

Fascinating nonetheless...

[desirecampbell]

Many people feel this is another error in the Daizenshuu.

Er... I beg your pardon? An error?
What kind of "error" would that be? We're not talking about a typo, here! ^_^;

He is more likely based off of a 'Journey to the West' character (can't remember his name, some god with a third eye) like most other DragonBall characters.

Like Gokû. Who is an alien. So I don't see your point.

Well, Goku's alien heritage is "touched on" durring the course of the series (if I recal correctly). Ten, on the other hand, is never even hinted at being an alien.

It's just so random to say he's an alien. It seems like they were simply trying to explain his third eye.

[Rocketman]

If Cell didn't use any of his techniques, then everything is fine. If he used at least the Death Beam, then there's something wrong here. In that case, Duo would be right to state that cells bring battle technique information in them in the Dragonball universe.

Indeed, Cell uses it when he's trying to enrage Gohan. Since Freeza never used that technique during his visit on Earth, the only explanation is that his cells carried the information...

But, Freeza was part mechanical when he was on Earth. Maybe the smpler bug got the info on the Death Beam from whatever computer systems Freeza had.

[SaiyaMel]

Hasn't Mr Toriyama stated that Ten is human?

[Duo]

If Cell didn't use any of his techniques, then everything is fine. If he used at least the Death Beam, then there's something wrong here. In that case, Duo would be right to state that cells bring battle technique information in them in the Dragonball universe.

Indeed, Cell uses it when he's trying to enrage Gohan. Since Freeza never used that technique during his visit on Earth, the only explanation is that his cells carried the information...

But, Freeza was part mechanical when he was on Earth. Maybe the smpler bug got the info on the Death Beam from whatever computer systems Freeza had.

Now you're just splitting hairs. For that to be true, we have to assume the bug had enough time to somehow scrape this information up before Freeza died, that the information was there at all in the first place or that his brain was "part mechincal" and various other things.

[Godo]

Many people feel this is another error in the Daizenshuu.

Er... I beg your pardon? An error?
What kind of "error" would that be? We're not talking about a typo, here! ^_^;

He is more likely based off of a 'Journey to the West' character (can't remember his name, some god with a third eye) like most other DragonBall characters.

Like Gokû. Who is an alien. So I don't see your point.

Well, Goku's alien heritage is "touched on" durring the course of the series (if I recal correctly). Ten, on the other hand, is never even hinted at being an alien.

It's just so random to say he's an alien. It seems like they were simply trying to explain his third eye.

So true, so true.

If Tienshinhan is an alien, then Kuririn is too. Kuririn doesn't have a nose, and Tienshinhan has a third eye.´
Saying that he is an alien is like saying that Yamcha's scars is a part of an alien transformation. It's all natural stuff, mutations (for Yamcha battle scars).
It's not like that all foxes and bears in the Dragonball series are aliens...

[Mr.Piccolo]

So true, so true.

If Tienshinhan is an alien, then Kuririn is too. Kuririn doesn't have a nose, and Tienshinhan has a third eye.´
Saying that he is an alien is like saying that Yamcha's scars is a part of an alien transformation. It's all natural stuff, mutations (for Yamcha battle scars).
It's not like that all foxes and bears in the Dragonball series are aliens...

For the most part I agree with what Godo says, but I think people keep on insisting that Ten is an alien because supposedly the daizenshuu suggests it and many people hold it at high regard, like a bible of sorts with a fraction of its prints.

I say that the only dragonball(not z/gt) aliens were Kami, Piccolo (If he had his own arc that definately counts as another example) and Goku.

[Duo]

As far as I'm concerned, if the Manga and story in general said absolutely nothing at any point to even come close to implying Tenshinhan was of alien origin, then there's no reason to believe so. I don't have a Daizenshuu, I can't read Japanese, but it sounds like if it is in there, some random staffer was just being an idiot and no one cross-checked it or something.

[Rocketman]

Indeed, Cell uses it when he's trying to enrage Gohan. Since Freeza never used that technique during his visit on Earth, the only explanation is that his cells carried the information...

But, Freeza was part mechanical when he was on Earth. Maybe the smpler bug got the info on the Death Beam from whatever computer systems Freeza had.

Now you're just splitting hairs. For that to be true, we have to assume the bug had enough time to somehow scrape this information up before Freeza died, that the information was there at all in the first place or that his brain was "part mechincal" and various other things.

Freeza's brain was part mechanical.

[Duo]

Freeza's brain was part mechanical.

How so? All we see in the Manga is that his face had to be reconstructed a bit. Who's to say that all just wasn't to hold it in a certain figure? It was never stated that it had to support or become one with his brain at all.

[kinoko]

There's a page in one of the Daizenshuu that states he's an alien, descended from the "three eyed tribe". Other than that - there's no reason to think he's anything but a human. Nothing about him being an alin is ever hinted at in the manga or anime. Many people feel this is another error in the Daizenshuu.
He is more likely based off of a 'Journey to the West' character (can't remember his name, some god with a third eye) like most other DragonBall characters.

Hey, would you happen to know which Daizenshuu? I'm curious myself for the sake of some controversy (...?) >< ...and some website stuff... XD

5-Who is the strongest human by the end of Z? I think it's Ten because he is consistantly training throughout the series. And even though Krillin receives a power-up from the Eldest Namekian, he settles down to raise a family, so this argument would be in Ten's favor.

Wow! It's been a long time since I've encountered this question (maybe I'm just out of the loop a bit..) The points you've made are ones that are touched upon frequently in the argument, but are fair points. The debate is so complicated, and in my experience, things have gotten very heated. People throw in Juuhachigou sometimes, and that just opens up a whole can of worms so to speak. >< Because... can we count her since she's a android/cyborg? There seems to be a counter-argument for everything!

My extreme bias toward Ten leads me to believe that he is indeed the strongest human. But... that's just me. If there's a line in the Daizenshuu or something that explicitly supports Ten, or states the contrary, that'll be enough for me. ^^;;

[Anonymous Friend]

With regard to Cell's usage of Freeza's Death beam, who's to say that it's not a techinque but rather a special/natural ability in the lines of Cyclop's Optic blast or something.

And thinking a little more on the matter, Cell does have a tail, so if he was to be out during a full moon would he turn Ozaru??