Western Preference for Android/Cell Saga

[Nikkolas]

This is something a guy on another site recently inquired about. If it's valid or not, I have no idea.

I've noticed a trend where when people think Dragon Ball, they think the Android Saga specifically. When they think transformations, they think Gohan's SSJ 2. When they think villains, they think Cell. When they think awesome attacks, it's Final Flash or Big Bang Attack. Everyone's favorite fight is Piccolo vs Android 17, and everyone's favorite character is Future Trunks. On the negative side, the show gets a bad rap for being solely about transforming into more powerful forms of Super Saiyan to combat enemies who, themselves, transform into more powerful forms to combat those Super Saiyan forms - something that was only a trend in the Android Saga.

The Android Saga seems to have overshadowed the entire rest of the DBZ canon in Western perception. Was it rerun more frequently than the rest of the series?

My response for my best guesses as to why this could be:

Well, in addition to its inherent greatness, Funi got a lot better at their job in the Android/Cell Saga.

Even if we were all too young and stupid to realize just how bad the voices were at the time (and they were pretty bad), I think everyone appreciated the new cast we got in the Android/Cell Saga. Eric Vale as Future Trunks, Chuck Huber as Android 17, Meredith McCoy as Android 18 and last but certainly not least, Dameon Clarke as Cell. I will defend Funi's Z dub for the most part but I cannot deny that Linda Young did not help Freeza at all. Freeza looks girly, he acts girly and he has a rather bad female voice on top of all that holding him back.

By comparison....This is how our new main villain sounded.

Furthermore, there is a reason JRPGs and most anime focus on teenagers and young adults. People always complain about it on forums and stuff because they're tired of ordinary high school students accomplishing everything ever but the reasoning is very simple and it's one that is just as true for Western media - shows and books intended for younger audiences have younger protagonists. It goes over well with these audiences. We were all about Gohan's age (well, in the Funi dub, in reality he was like 9 in the Cell Games I think but Funi had him about 11) so naturally he was a hero we could get behind. None of us had the vaguest clue Goku had once been a child hero himself.

On a similar note, I was a HUGE Vegeta fanboy at the time. I was always rooting for him in the Namek Saga over those toody-two shoes heroes. That same sort of "edgier" attitude was seen in SSJ2 Gohan and the way he just insisted on torturing Cell. That could very well have been a factor for why I prefrred his transformation as well.

Finally, dat music. The Android and Cell Saga are probably when Faulconer Production's score truly made its unforgettable mark for many

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VefKtyZs2w

That song is so awesome and that commercial as a whole is comparable to the fantastic Gundam Wing promos Toonami made. (Gundam Wing being Toonami's other super mega ultra hit. Coincidence?) Is it any surprise people gravitated towards Future Trunks? Then you throw in Cell's Theme, Gohan Angers, SSJ Vegeta's Theme, all of which play at extremely iconic moments like Gohan becoming SSJ2, Vegeta usign Final Flash, etc., and you have an added ingredient for success.

[rereboy]

Its funny because I think its where Dragon Ball was at its weakest.

Anyway, I don't know if it was rerun more often, but I guess the western audience simply responded better to the "serious business" of that arc.

[Gaffer Tape]

It certainly couldn't have been re-run more often than the first two seasons back when the show was in limbo.

[shinmaru]

Its funny because I think its where Dragon Ball was at its weakest.

Anyway, I don't know if it was rerun more often, but I guess the western audience simply responded better to the "serious business" of that arc.

For me, it's the golden age of Z (Japanese). love the drama and mistery In that arc, and there is so much happinening In that arc.
Goku get's sick and get a beatdown from 19, We get new characters like Trunks and Satan, The Z warriors all die In Trunks future.
We get to see adult Gohan, The androids that are a threat to the Z warriors are now in danger them self.
Best Movies and merchandise came out In that era.

[Kid Buu]

I remember when Shonen Jump first came to the US, and they started with the Cell Arc for DBZ. I wonder if the Western Popularity for it was the reason?

As for my opinions, I always preferred the two arcs that surround it. However, the Cell Arc isn't my least favorite arc in the entire series (Daimao/23rd Budokai is).

[EXBadguy]

Man, that's a lie, and the guy knows that! If that was true, why are there many western cultural references on the Saiyan-Frieza saga era(KND, Billy and Mandy, MAD), there's a few references of the Cell saga, but I still think it's a lie. I thought 55-65% of the whole fanbase thought DBZ went downhill after Frieza, even if they saw the Cell saga first. And I've seen some comments from people from the US say they watched the other sagas before and they STILL prefer the Cell saga. It may not have the same DB feeling(which, to me, it's good), but it definitely had a badass "Save the world" tone, which the Buu saga tried to copy, and for ONCE had sense of loss! Speaking of sense of loss, I wish Toriyama did the Shadow Dragon Saga, and you all know why.

On the negative side, the show gets a bad rap for being solely about transforming into more powerful forms of Super Saiyan to combat enemies who, themselves, transform into more powerful forms to combat those Super Saiyan forms - something that was only a trend in the Android Saga.

Maybe, but I think the Frieza saga gave the show a more bad rep than the Cell saga, basically because of the final fight. If it wasn't like that, there wouldn't be jokes about how many episodes does it take for Goku to beat this guy. After all, Toonami started airing DBZ around 1998-1999, which was at Frieza, NOT Cell.

Its funny because I think its where Dragon Ball was at its weakest.

While I think that's where DB was at its strongest now. I used to think it was at its strongest at the Frieza saga, but after re-watching the saga in Kai a couple of times (on national TV..Nicktoons), not anymore. Maybe if Dr Gero didn't have a major character/saga connection with the Z warriors, then I'd agree with you or still disagree, by saying "DBZ was at its best at the Saiyan Saga" instead.

[Gaffer Tape]

If we do assume that the Western audience in particular has a particular affinity for this part of the story, my guess would be due to the fact that we were stuck in the Freeza arc for so long with no new episodes. Seeing the blue skies of earth was a nice change to the boring landscape of Namek. Seeing everyone together again after working for those Dragon Balls for so long. In short, it was a refreshing change. Something altogether new.

[Kid Buu]

Generally when I meet people who say Cell arc is their favorite they tell me it is because they are big Gohan fans.

[garnetjester]

I'm a Gohan fan so I'm biased, but I think some of his best moments as a character were on the Freeza arc, his adventures with Kuririn were great, they made a good team. The android/Cell saga was of course great for Gohan, but he only showed up for the final fight, so I wish he would've been around more (I mean in the manga, the anime filler episodes were nice).

What I like about the Cell Saga is that there is a sense of loss (which is never there in the Buu saga, for example), and that for the first time things seemed really dark. Freeza was a psychopath, but you had the Ginyu force and other breather moments, but the Cell saga was bleak, especially considering Future Trunks' timetravelling and his alternate future where everyone was dead and there was no hope. And then you have ill Goku, androids that kicked everyone's butts, then everyone making really terrible decisions and actually paying for it (notably, Vegeta letting Cell become perfect or well, Kuririn leaving 18 alive, Goku sending Gohan to fight without telling him anything beforehand, Gohan deciding to get in touch with his inner sadist instead of finishing Cell off...), then Ultimate Warrior Undefeatable Goku admits that he's weaker than Cell and sends Gohan to fight instead but Gohan just wants to be a scholar and he doesn't want to fight, so everyone gets beaten and it gets pretty bad until Gohan becomes SSJ, but then he's kind of an ass so Goku ends up dying. Afterwards it's like ANGST/ I'M THE WORST MY DAD DIED BECAUSE I'M AN IDIOT (which is very sad) and Cell coming back... It gets me every time. Especially that picture of Gohan in his mourning suit. Goddammit Toriyama, this was a gag manga.

In Colombia everyone is all about the Freeza saga, because it was aired like a million times and because SSJ Goku was very impressive to everyone.

[Hellspawn28]

I think the Android/Cell saga gets a lot of love from the Western fanbase for it's more darker story. Trunks future is more darker with everyone dead and you did get the sense of loss from Trunks. The build up for #17 and #18 was also great since it give you a lot of imagination on what they could look like and how evil they can be. Cell is also a cool villain since the idea of being the ultimate perfect god is awesome and most people didn't expect him to reach his Perfect form. We also see Goku die again and find out it was worth for nothing.

[IDreamtIWasABee]

It was the purest example of the Z formula, and since Toonami aired the entire fucking saga without interruption, it was very satisfying to take in at once. Contrast with the torturous splitting up of the Freeza saga and the aimlessness of the early Boo saga (which was split up just as it was beginning to gather momentum).

[Dbzfan94]

There's not much of DB or DBZ I actually dislike, so the Cell Saga is no different. I prefer the Buu Saga because of my bias as it's what got me in into the series when I was a kid, but I still love the Cell Saga

[Nikkolas]

It was the purest example of the Z formula, and since Toonami aired the entire fucking saga without interruption, it was very satisfying to take in at once. Contrast with the torturous splitting up of the Freeza saga and the aimlessness of the early Boo saga (which was split up just as it was beginning to gather momentum).

I'll never forget that, for a few years there, I thought DBZ ended with Vegeta blowing himself up against Buu. I mean, it felt like an ending and the next episode I'm pretty sure was a rerun so...

[Kid Buu]

Yeah, and Toonami also recycled Raditz to Recoome a lot.

[EXBadguy]

Goddammit Toriyama, this was a gag manga.

I think Toriyama was going back and fourth. In part 1(DB), it stopped being a gag manga when it got to the King Piccolo saga(which is where I actually started liking DB), then later in Z it went back to its gag roots when it got to the Frieza saga(Namek arc mostly), then back to being dark when Dr Gero stepped in, then back to being gag when Babidi came.


Anyway, I'm glad to see the credit the Cell saga deserves, even if yall don't think it's the best. Like wow, I thought it was only the Buu saga that got shit, but here yall give the Cell saga shit too for not being comedy gag, thought not as much as the Buu saga. Anyway, my new saga ranking, Cell>Saiyan>Frieza=Buu(both of them are enjoyable, but bad and overlong)

[Nikkolas]

I just want to point out that even with the silliest part of the Namek Saga, the Ginyu Force, we still had a bit where a 4-year-old boy got his neck broken.

Yeah, it stopped being a true gag series long before Androids showed up, even if the Cell Saga is the darkest part of the series.

[Herms]

Is there any actual hard data on Western fan preferences? It's easy to say "well, it sure seems to be everyone's favorite", but that's not terribly meaningful. I do vaguely recall hearing that the Cell Games got the highest Toonami ratings, but (assuming that's true) it might not necessarily translate into long-term preferences. Before discussing explanations for the thing, it'd be nice to have, like, a poll at the very least to demonstrate that the thing really is a thing.

I remember when Shonen Jump first came to the US, and they started with the Cell Arc for DBZ. I wonder if the Western Popularity for it was the reason?

Probably not; that's simply where Viz was up to with their DBZ release at the time they launched US Shonen Jump. They'd already put out the Saiyan and Freeza arcs in both monthly comics format and collected GN editions, and it wouldn't have made much business sense for them to rerun those chapters in US Jump. Of course, the fact that they stopped running DBZ in US Jump after the Cell arc wrapped up and released the Boo arc directly as GNs might say something about that story arc's relative popularity (or at least Viz's perception of its relative popularity).

[TheKingOfKamehamehas]

Since I read the manga I would probably put it close to my least favorite. With the anime, I think its a little bit of a different matter.
>The filler tends to be decent to pretty good
> Dark Serious Sci-Fi tones which Americans enjoy like Akira and Ghost In The Shell
> Most importantly the fight scenes were pretty good and it didn't drag as much as Frieza especially plus Gohan being a bad ass (Reason why he used to be my favorite character).
>You also have to admit this was Faulconer at his best and I still listen to his tunes these days like Goahn's Theme and Cell's theme. (How the heck did I say Krillin's theme....)
>Toonami Pacing was there also.

[Kid Buu]

Is there any actual hard data on Western fan preferences? It's easy to say "well, it sure seems to be everyone's favorite", but that's not terribly meaningful. I do vaguely recall hearing that the Cell Games got the highest Toonami ratings, but (assuming that's true) it might not necessarily translate into long-term preferences. Before discussing explanations for the thing, it'd be nice to have, like, a poll at the very least to demonstrate that the thing really is a thing.

I haven't seen anything for the Cell arc, but I have seen producers talk about how Western fans enjoy GT in contrast to the Japanese. So maybe there is hard data for what parts of Z the casual audience seems to like.

[Attitudefan]

Somehow Goku's most generic outfit defined him up until the JSAT special in 2008!! From 1993 till about 2008, that was his default look! Plain, boring, no symbol, no flowing sash, nothing! Personally, I'm glad Toei is embracing his Kame gi and his Go gi. It gives his costume such a nice contrast.