Hello. What is the meaning of the "canon"?

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:45 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:Well, overall, I guess they did as good a job as they could with it, and there are some pretty good parts. But whatever.

Super Sonic wrote: Back on topic of canon, I'm assuming Toriyama's opinion on GT isn't like how supposedly Mr. Watsuki hates Samurai X Reflection.
Interesting (RK Fan, right here). Isn't that the third OVA where Kenshin dies, or something?

I thought there were only two OVAs including that and Trust and Betrayal. Or was "The Motion Picture" actually an OVA as well?

Aoi · Post by **Aoi** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:18 pm

Jerseymilk wrote:
Aoi wrote: This was great to read and I agree with you 100%. There is no "real" version or official of the dragon ball universe. The manga is not superior to the anime or the other way around.
I just went to a dragon ball site that showed all the super saiyan transformations and on top of super saiyan 4 it said "not canon/never existed"
For something that is not at all official and is measured by the taste of every fan, saying that something is "not canon" as if it was the end of the discussion seems very arrogant and ignorant to me. (It makes it as if one persons taste is superior to another person's taste)

I was reading the other fight about canon and I think the idea for canon should not go past just discussion and individual taste, it should never be spoken as "the real universe".
I quoted all this Aoi because I think it's the best post I've seen made here by anyone in a long time. You rock.

Well it looks like many people here were thinking the same thing. I only just wrote it. But thank you guys.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:19 pm

Super Sonic wrote:I thought there were only two OVAs

There are only two OVA series ("Tsuioku Hen" and "Seisô Hen"), indeed.

was "The Motion Picture" actually an OVA as well?

"Ishin Shishi e no Requiem" was a movie.

Pedro The Hutt · Post by **Pedro The Hutt** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:54 am

Either way, Watsuki-san is no fan of Seisouhan because it changed the ending he had made for the manga. (And it was a happy end, dammit, none of that angsty stuff you see in Seisouhen)

And he probably also has some qualms about that they went ahead and made Seisouhen without as much as his permission. (Ah the life of a Shounen Jump mangaka, before you know it you're no longer in charge over your own characters)

SaiyaMel · Post by **SaiyaMel** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:17 pm

Aoi wrote:
Jerseymilk wrote:
Aoi wrote: This was great to read and I agree with you 100%. There is no "real" version or official of the dragon ball universe. The manga is not superior to the anime or the other way around.
I just went to a dragon ball site that showed all the super saiyan transformations and on top of super saiyan 4 it said "not canon/never existed"
For something that is not at all official and is measured by the taste of every fan, saying that something is "not canon" as if it was the end of the discussion seems very arrogant and ignorant to me. (It makes it as if one persons taste is superior to another person's taste)

I was reading the other fight about canon and I think the idea for canon should not go past just discussion and individual taste, it should never be spoken as "the real universe".
I quoted all this Aoi because I think it's the best post I've seen made here by anyone in a long time. You rock.
Well it looks like many people here were thinking the same thing. I only just wrote it. But thank you guys.

I for one don't look at it that way..

no offense...if that's your logic - than the so-called Dragonball AF art with its SSJ5 to 100, and doujinshi, might aswell be included.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:44 pm

SaiyaMel wrote: I for one don't look at it that way.. no offense...if that's your logic - than the so-called Dragonball AF art with its SSJ5 to 100, and doujinshi, might aswell be included.

Well, there are limits, of course.

param · Post by **param** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:12 am

Steven Perry wrote:
SSj Kaboom wrote:
Jerseymilk wrote: I quoted all this Aoi because I think it's the best post I've seen made here by anyone in a long time. You rock.
I'll second that. Long live SSj4!
I'll third that.

It's my belief that all Dragonball episodes should be considered canon.* Saying that an episode is just 'fiiler' is a lazy-ass way of answering a question (if the question involves an episode done by Toei).

* Well, disregarding GT of course. And the movies. And the Garlic Junior saga.

I'll fourth it.

Aoi just layed it straight, let each medium be recognised in its own medium. Why even bother to compare the anime with the manga, wouldn't it be easier if you just stuck with the manga alone? That way you not only get rid of fillers, but small contradictions anime seems to make still.
And then regard anime in its own. Pikkon does not exist in the Manga Dragonball, but did that stop several DBZ fans from chosing him as one among their favourite DBZ characters? heck, guys over at Atari forums were signing petitions to have Pikkon finally included in Dragonball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 2 just out today.
Its like the first line here,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Ball_GT

Sequel to the anime. Toei and Toriyama are like the two different tales of Dragonball.

And its not like Toriyama would be against this notion, he did develop several non-canon characters, including some stuff in GT I hear.

SaiyaMel · Post by **SaiyaMel** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:36 am

Why even bother to compare the anime with the manga, wouldn't it be easier if you just stuck with the manga alone?

That's usually what i do.

johnny139 · Post by **johnny139** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:21 pm

(I don't this is Necro-Posting, since it's only a week or so old, but if it is I'm quite sorry.)

Well, I think the Manga is top dog. Then, whatever could fit into the Manga without contradicting it (I mean big contradictions, not the Bardock in space thing. That's minor.) is canon.

Movie 9 is canon, because it could fit into the Manga. Ditto for the Bardock special. However, GT itself isn't canon because it contradicts the Manga at times, and even the things that fit in arn't canon because they are linked to non-canon. For example, if Movie 10 fit in without any hitches (I know it doesn't, this is just an example), it still wouldn't be canon because it's linked to the other Broli movies, which are not canon. And... that's pretty much it. Any questions?

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:15 pm

I like to think like Aoi does; that the anime and the manga should be considered as two different stories, on the same theme. Obviously the anime is derived from the manga, but that doesn't mean they need to be the same, or for one to override another...except when the anime goes off and drives the story into a ditch that is.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:19 pm

Deus ex Machina wrote:I like to think like Aoi does; that the anime and the manga should be considered as two different stories, on the same theme. Obviously the anime is derived from the manga, but that doesn't mean they need to be the same, or for one to override another...except when the anime goes off and drives the story into a ditch that is.

I agree. It's one thing to weight each piece of a metaseries and try and figure out how they all interact with each other - but the bottom line is they're all different things. It's just that the 'canon' thing comes up a lot when talking about DragonBall, which is weird considering how closely the anime follows the manga compared to lots of other anime.

Ironically, my favourite bit of 'filler' is when they literally drive into a ditch

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:56 pm

I see canon as: Anything Toriyama made and anything that doesn't clash with something Toriyama made. Obviously excluding some of the little mistakes Toriyama has made (will add examples later).

-Rick