Who is the stronger Fusion: Vegetto or Gogeta?

Panda · Post by **Panda** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:45 pm

Hmmm...

I've always been under the impression that dominant traits in characters are what show up in their fused forms. This applies to both characters of course...

Because Vegeta's character is known for his arrogance and cocky attitude it's only natural for it to show up in the fusion. I believe we see more of Vegeta's nature than Goku's simply because their wasn't enough time to show Goku's dominant personality traits (Vegetto may be a doofus and we just never got to see it...)

That's all very vague speculation of course... I believe that these fusions are pretty much 50/50 (with obvious exception, the Kai's as mentioned) but certain aspects of characters stick out.

Eclipse · Post by **Eclipse** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:23 am

For the fusion dance to work out, the stronger one has to lower their power level to that of the weaker one. For Goku, he has to lower his power down to the SSJ2 level, where Vegeta is. Considering he was at SSJ3 power, this is a huge power drop. (Consider the fight with Goku and Majin Buu. Goku claimed he could defeat Majin Buu. Vegeta had a lot of trouble. But whatever).

Potara, on the other hand, requires no such thing. As such, it can be SSJ3 power + Vegeta's SSJ2 power (Plus the fact he's dead. Which makes him a bit tougher in terms of defense)

SSJ4 Gogeta's strength level is supposedly FAR stronger than that last Dragon in GT, which both SSJ4 Goku and Vegeta had a lot of trouble. However, don't forget that at that point they were somewhat evenly powered, unlike Gogeta.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:48 am

Eclipse wrote:For the fusion dance to work out, the stronger one has to lower their power level to that of the weaker one. For Goku, he has to lower his power down to the SSJ2 level, where Vegeta is. Considering he was at SSJ3 power, this is a huge power drop.

Wha? No, this would only apply if they were trying to fuse while Super Saiyan 2/3. If they're fusing in their base forms, then it's their base form's power that's is put in the 'equation' for fusion. And Vegeta's probably the stronger one at base.

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:23 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:I'm simply pointing out that Gokû does get cocky, sometimes.

There's no need to point it out when everybody knows that. You were probably the only person who took what I said and understood it as "Goku is never cocky". Read slower next time.

Olivier Hague wrote:And really, even if you make Gokû not so cocky, and Vegeta quite cocky, well, yeah, I guess a fusion of the two is going to be more cocky than Gokû. What does that tell us? Not much, really. Unless we can get our hands on an arrogance-o-meter to see exactly how cocky Vegetto is, compared to Vegeta. And even then, we'd also have to consider everything else, aside from the arrogance... 'Sounds like fun.

Yes... arrogance-o-meter... you really know how to liven the forum don't you..

The examples are there.

Olivier Hague wrote:But they're based on pretty subjective opinions and observations, not on actual statements in the series, guides, etc. That's about as reliable as "a Super Saiyan 3 looks twice as shiny as a Super Saiyan 2, so I guess it's twice as powerful."
Speculations like that are nice and all, but in the end, they're just that. You can't just flat out say that "Vegetto is more based on Vegeta".

I don't know what to say; unless Toriyama walks up to you and tells you everything that needs to be said about DragonBall, you'd probably still deny it. Threads like this are based on subjective opinions and observations. We didn't make the story, we just talk about it because we enjoy it. There's just a select few who get off on interacting in a pessimistic point of view... yeah who am I kidding , I'm just talking about you.

To be honest, I've never seen you back up anything you've ever said in this forum
Olivier Hague wrote:What can I say? I guess you didn't pay enough attention...
I guess I just have to read in between the lines of you saying "What","Proof", and "not true" in most of your posts.

I wish I could say the same for your disregard for almost every post you come across..

Olivier Hague wrote:Yeah, "almost every post". Sure. I'm all over the board. Always. And in every topic.
*sigh*
Give me a break, will you?

Yup. That's exactly what I meant: You are all over the board and you post in just about every topic...

For the record, you never answered my question..Are these kinds of discussions what you actually live for

...? You earn your break once you answer that one.

-rick

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:51 pm

Uh, oh. Here we go again...

Post by **desirecampbell** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:00 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:Uh, oh. Here we go again...

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that it wasn't me this time.

[size=0]Sorry, Mr.Piccolo - you're on you own :'([/size]

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:04 pm

desirecampbell wrote:I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that it wasn't me this time.

And you're pointing that out because...? Because that must mean I'm the one who has a problem, naturally. After all, you just can't get into arguments with more than one person unless you're the guilty party, right? Right.
Making such "innocent" comments is an interesting way to show that you're not the type to start fights...

Mr.Piccolo wrote:unless Toriyama walks up to you and tells you everything that needs to be said about DragonBall, you'd probably still deny it.

Deny what? Deny that Vegetto is more based on Vegeta?
I wouldn't call that "denying", as that was never established. And that would be my point.

Are these kinds of discussions what you actually live for ...? You earn your break once you answer that one.

No, they're not. But I can see why you'd think that: my disagreeing with people obviously means that I might be an idiotic freak.
Are we done, here?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:28 pm

I'm kinda on Hague's side here. There is no good evidence for Vegetto being based on Vegeta.

I mean, the "evidence" is basically two things:

1. Vegetto acts cocky like Vegeta.

That just doesn't cut it. Goku acts cocky sometimes too, and Vegeta's personality is part of Vegetto, so we're gonna see simularities.

Plus, Vegetto was trying to get absorbed. He had to stretch out the battle, while appearing to be able to be caught off guard, so Buu would try to absorb him.

2. 'Veget' leads the name.

THis seems really shaky ground to base this on, but I think the best reference for this is the other Fusions.

Gogeta (12) - Doesn't really act like Goku. How many times does Goku go straight for the kill?

Gogeta (GT) - Also doesn't act like Goku. Goku doesn't fuck around like that during a battle, not since he was a kid. (Yes, I know he's a kid in GT, but he fused as Super Saiyan 4, and he didn't screw around in his SSj4 like he did as a kid)

Really, I don't see any reason to think that Vegetto is anything but an equal mixture of Goku and Vegeta. His being an asshole is something both character will do, and it was pretty much all a trick anyway.

Sebastian (SB) · Post by **Sebastian (SB)** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:29 pm

*yells in a Masako Nozawa voice* YARGGGGGGHHHHGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!.........continue (& please ignore this post) if you must.........

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:26 am

Conceptually speaking, the idea of Vegeto was a whole new character (unless I'm misinterpretting Goku's speach to Vegeta when trying to convince him to fuse). Vegeto had a mission that required that he acted like he did, so I'm going to have to go with "Whether or not a character is dominant... we can't tell.".

Really... I don't think of Gotenks as being dominantly Trunks or Goten so much as an entirely different character.
The only thing we have different is the Kaioshin fusing, but... hey... they're kaioshin... maybe that makes a difference? There's no way to tell.

And... I still can't find a link between Super Buu + everybodyheabsorbed and the power of Bebi Vegeta and the Evil Dragons. If we can't compare those enemies, we can't really compare the fusions that fought them.

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:55 am

According to Budokai 3's "Memories Of..." logic, I believe it's Gogeta who states the fusion dance outcome is clearly weaker to that of the Potara effect. And Old Kaioshin even states such in the anime as well. Is this still an issue? Vegetto is stronger than Gogeta (excluding his SSJ4 form).

My opinion on which personality dominates in which merging:
Vegetto - Vegeta
Gogeta - Goku/Kakarrot

Post by **desirecampbell** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:10 am

Conan the SSJ wrote:According to Budokai 3's "Memories Of..." logic, I believe it's Gogeta who states the fusion dance outcome is clearly weaker to that of the Potara effect. And Old Kaioshin even states such in the anime as well. Is this still an issue? Vegetto is stronger than Gogeta (excluding his SSJ4 form).

Because Roudaikaioshin doesn't specifically say that potara is stronger. He makes a vague reference to it being better than dance fusion but he only specifically talks about how it doesn't have a timelimit.

Without someone (credible) saying that the potara create a stronger fusion than the metemoru (sp?) dance, we should assume that (since they're both fusions) both types are exactly the same.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:04 am

desirecampbell wrote:Roudaikaioshin doesn't specifically say that potara is stronger. He makes a vague reference to it being better than dance fusion

He says it's far more effective... I guess he could simply be referring to the fact there's not time limit, but...

Without someone (credible) saying that the potara create a stronger fusion than the metemoru (sp?) dance

"Metamoru". As in "metamorphosis".

we should assume that (since they're both fusions) both types are exactly the same.

Differences of height and power don't matter, with the Potara.
And one could theorize that since the stronger one doesn't have to lower his power, the end result is more powerful... Would Gokû even consider performing the Fusion dance wih Mr. Satan, based on that difference?

Post by **desirecampbell** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:22 am

Rou dai kaioshin could be talking about a strength increase, but he doesn't say anything specific. I'm tempted to think he's talking about the fact that potara isn't "restricted" like the metamoru dance (physical size, ki, time) because he actually goes on to talk about that. Of course one could say he isn't talking about that because he talks about limits afterward so much (like, why would he reference the limits vaguely and then go into such detail?)

It's just that there's no evidence to support the idea that one type of fusion is any different than another.

BrollysKin · Post by **BrollysKin** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:24 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:
desirecampbell wrote:Roudaikaioshin doesn't specifically say that potara is stronger. He makes a vague reference to it being better than dance fusion
He says it's far more effective... I guess he could simply be referring to the fact there's not time limit, but...

Without someone (credible) saying that the potara create a stronger fusion than the metemoru (sp?) dance
"Metamoru". As in "metamorphosis".

we should assume that (since they're both fusions) both types are exactly the same.
Differences of height and power don't matter, with the Potara.
And one could theorize that since the stronger one doesn't have to lower his power, the end result is more powerful... Would Gokû even consider performing the Fusion dance wih Mr. Satan, based on that difference?

What point are you arguing?! You have just switched arguements so you could battle with your long time nemesis desirecampbell. Take a side and then stay on it. Fuck!

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:10 pm

BrollysKin wrote:What point are you arguing?! You have just switched arguements so you could battle with your long time nemesis desirecampbell. Take a side and then stay on it. Fuck!

1) Calm down.

2) I don't believe I've "switched arguments".
I, for one, think Vegetto is stronger than Gogeta (what did I just type? oh, the embarrassment), and I don't remember saying otherwise in this topic.
(and I'm not saying I'm sure of it either, it's just my personal impression)

3) I was just discussing with desirecampbell. Surely you've seen us fight, right?

4) Long-time nemesis? Please.

Kanzenshuu

Who is the stronger Fusion: Vegetto or Gogeta?

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