Torishima's thoughts on when the series should've ended

[Lord Beerus]

Well they got their info from Kotaku after all. Kotaku likes to make clickbait articles.

Yeah especially since they're so anti Japan

Um, since when?

[ShadowWolf87]

Well they got their info from Kotaku after all. Kotaku likes to make clickbait articles.

Yeah especially since they're so anti Japan

Um, since when?

Depends on whose writing and what the topic is, but some of their staff have been pretty openly critical of Japanese culture in regards to sexuality and sexism, especially anime.

Par for the course for pretty much any site owned by the scandal rag that is Gawker Media, but hey.

That said, what amuses me are the people who are using Torishima's comments to somehow add validity to the fake interview where Toriyama allegedly said that he would have outright ended the series at Freeza if not forced to continue. Never ceases to amaze me how a supposed interview about the manga was somehow pointing to an anime-only scene for its validity and no one made that connection. Then again, when the people agreeing the manga should have ended cite anime filler as a reason... speaks for itself, really.

[Deathbringer]

That said, what amuses me are the people who are using Torishima's comments to somehow add validity to the fake interview where Toriyama allegedly said that he would have outright ended the series at Freeza if not forced to continue. Never ceases to amaze me how a supposed interview about the manga was somehow pointing to an anime-only scene for its validity and no one made that connection. Then again, when the people agreeing the manga should have ended cite anime filler as a reason... speaks for itself, really.

What is this fake interview/rumour that some of you are mentioning, I had heard from somewhere that Toriyama was gonna end the manga at a few points, one of them being after the first arc, then after Piccolo Daimao, then after Freeza, then after cell, but are there a lot of misunderstandings about this subject on the internet then?

[Gaffer Tape]

Allow me to direct you to one of my favorite and most often referenced guides on Kanzenshuu:

The Intended Endings Guide

It covers pretty much all rumors related to the when the series was "supposed" to end and has information on the "Super Otaku Magazine" "interview" that spread through the Internet like wildfire.

[VegettoEX]

What is this fake interview/rumour that some of you are mentioning, I had heard from somewhere that Toriyama was gonna end the manga at a few points, one of them being after the first arc, then after Piccolo Daimao, then after Freeza, then after cell, but are there a lot of misunderstandings about this subject on the internet then?

The eye-roll-inducing "Super Otaku Magazine" interview by "Nirazaki Tihashiberi" (a fake magazine name from a name in Japanese that doesn't make much sense / doesn't really work with its syllables). Here's a link, I guess.

Its purpose originally seems to have been to fuel the "WHO'S STRONGER?!?!?!?" wars in favor of... Gotenks... I think...? I have no idea.

Every single last shred of actual information regarding who said what about wanting to / planning to / etc. ending the series is covered in our "Intended Endings Guide" right here on the site.

[Herms]

I suppose we'll have to update that thing now, if only to clarify that these new comments are from Torishima rather than Toriyama.

[VegettoEX]

I suppose we'll have to update that thing now, if only to clarify that these new comments are from Torishima rather than Toriyama.

Was thinking that myself. I guess we'll have to translate the whole whatever thingiemabob on our own.

Content conversations happening before your very eyes, people!

[Hujio]

I suppose we'll have to update that thing now, if only to clarify that these new comments are from Torishima rather than Toriyama.

Was thinking that myself. I guess we'll have to translate the whole whatever thingiemabob on our own.

Talked to Julian about it last night, actually. Things are in the works.

[Hellspawn28]

I think things won't be the same if the series ended with Freeza. DBZ popularity would be short lived here in the US if that happen and most of us would have never became fans. I'm one of those fans who is happy on how the series is today. Sure there's the first DB series, but most people did became fans of the series thanks to DBZ.

[LuckyCat]

It seems in hindsight, though, that Torishima was objectively wrong. Dragon Ball continued to be a success into Buu arc spawning a spin-off series (GT). And now there's enough demand for the series to go even further (Super), so Torishima hasn't a leg left to stand on with his comments.

[EXBadguy]

Android/Cell arc is at the very least as good if not better than Saiyan/Freea arc

This.

The Freeza saga has been overpraised for its own good, honestly. As I ask to the people who claim that Toriyama intended to end the series at Frieza, WHERE! IS. THE PROOF?!

[Cold Skin]

Well, it was the Cell saga that I discovered first and still my favorite nowadays, followed by the Majin Boo saga.
So I'm really glad it didn't stop there, because a LOT of major things that I like were introduced with Cell and Boo, that's when the universe was "built enough" to become fascinating with many possibilities and many more variables with the Dragon Team.
And of course the new movies, that keep building on all of this, are also dear to my heart.

[Chuquita]

Without the Cell arc, you have no Trunks, no VegeBul, no ssj2 Gohan!
Without the Buu arc, no Majin Vegeta vs Gokû, no Great Saiyaman, no Vegetto, no EoZ cast!

I'm happy it went on as long as it did. And I'm sad Torishima doesn't like 18. I think she's cool. (Both as a villain and hero roles.)

[B]

It seems in hindsight, though, that Torishima was objectively wrong. Dragon Ball continued to be a success into Buu arc spawning a spin-off series (GT). And now there's enough demand for the series to go even further (Super), so Torishima hasn't a leg left to stand on with his comments.

Solely from a business point-of-view, yeah, ending DB is dumb, but is he really wrong in terms of content, which is mostly what he's talking about(and did talk about, on the phone, with Toriyama ~20 years ago)? The Cell arc is riddled with (more-than-normal)contrivances and it may be difficult for a lot of us to place ourselves in a timeframe where Dragon Ball wasn't completed. Torishima is sitting at his desk, flipping money through his Rolodex or whatever, and is reading new DB week-to-week like everybody else at the time. The biggest difference between him and fans like, I don't know, thatdbzguy, was that Torishima was in a position where he could complain directly.

You'll see a lot of comments about his "new" remarks as "this is old news" or "yeah, no shit," but I fear that doesn't clarify the eternal rumor that Toriyama was "forced" to continue, or that there was a "designated ending," and that's sad. Ultimately, it may just be Toriyama's own fault: he was able to craft a story so intense that the middle of it could be perceived as the end(and then the last quarter, and then the true end, which no one knew was coming). A commendable quality as the series is being produced; a nightmare for everyone trying to set the record straight years after the fact.

[Adamant]

The biggest difference between him and fans like, I don't know, thatdbzguy, was that Torishima was in a position where he could complain directly.

Plus, you know, the fact that he was not only a professional editor with a very impressive track record and a long history of knowing his shit, he was also the person who had edited half the series so far, and Toriyama had just done something he'd never have approved of at all back when he was the person who made those calls.

[LuckyCat]

is he really wrong in terms of content, which is mostly what he's talking about(and did talk about, on the phone, with Toriyama ~20 years ago)? The Cell arc is riddled with (more-than-normal)contrivances and it may be difficult for a lot of us to place ourselves in a timeframe where Dragon Ball wasn't completed.

Well you could argue that any new arc is riddled with contrivances. For example, isn't Goku suddenly being of alien ancestry a bit contrived? Does that mean the 23rd Budoukai should be the ending?

But to answer why Android saga works with content, the fact is there were plotlines left open in the Freeza saga. The most prominent of which is Gohan someday being able to protect the Earth. The Saiyan saga/Freeza sagas spent so much time building up Gohan, that for the Cell Games arc to never happen seems a wasted opportunity. Also, Freeza saga left Vegeta on Earth without it being clear whether he was still a threat.

I'm of the opinion that since all the major arcs are somewhat self-contained, you can really stop the series anywhere you please. Some people think Gohan SSJ2 was the best ending, while still others think Vegeta needed more character development. The way its written now gives many readers a chance to pick their own beginning, middle and satisfactory conclusion.

[sintzu]

Solely from a business point-of-view, yeah, ending DB is dumb, but is he really wrong in terms of content ?

I'd agree if what came after felt like useless filler but that wasn't the case cause it continued to build on the universe by introducing new concepts,stories and character development.

Even now after all these years Toriyama is still finding ways to push the universe foreword so ending it after the Namek arc would have have been a waste of potential that was and is continuing to be realized.

[medama_oyaji]

Without the Cell arc, you have no Trunks, no VegeBul, no ssj2 Gohan!
Without the Buu arc, no Majin Vegeta vs Gokû, no Great Saiyaman, no Vegetto, no EoZ cast!

Crazy to think that he was introduced this late, because he seems like such a staple of the series, but without the Cell arc you have no MR. SATAN! A character that Toriyama clearly loves.

[Chuquita]

Without the Cell arc, you have no Trunks, no VegeBul, no ssj2 Gohan!
Without the Buu arc, no Majin Vegeta vs Gokû, no Great Saiyaman, no Vegetto, no EoZ cast!

Crazy to think that he was introduced this late, because he seems like such a staple of the series, but without the Cell arc you have no MR. SATAN! A character that Toriyama clearly loves.

Exactly! He's the one Toriyama would've liked to do a spin-off with at one point too.

[damn]

He's completely right...the manga went to shit after Freeza