Reasons why DBZ sucks (how do I counterpoint these?)

[Daizensushi-x]

My "friend" gave me a paper on why Dragon Ball Z sucks. Here's what it said.

Reasons why DBZ sucks

1. Action is too stretched out (not enough per episode)

2. Story sucks (or, more correctly, is extremely repetitive)

3. Villians aren't original (for the most part)

4. Good characters have almost all identical personalities (i.e. Vegeta and Piccolo, Gohan and Goku)

5. All "super" attacks are basically the same.

----

That's what he wrote. I've been trying to argue with him for about an hour but I am really bad at debating. Please help. He's really cocky.

[Mr.Piccolo]

He's entitled to his own opinion but I'm guessing he hasn't seen more than two episodes of the show (not even going on dub territory now). Um, yeah. Ask him if he can do better. It's pretty silly to hear someone would write a paper on what "sucks"...
-Rick

[Daizensushi-x]

he's seen all of them.

[Bardock the Mexican]

Just thank your lucky stars he didn't say how he thinks that Bulma is a puta or "la chingadera" of the series. That would be an insult to DBZ.

If you're not catching on, chingadera is Spanish for whore along with puta. Your little Spanish lesson of the day.

[Rocketman]

If you're not catching on, chingadera is Spanish for whore along with puta. Your little Spanish lesson of the day.

Te quiero puta!

[Mr.Piccolo]

Just thank your lucky stars he didn't say how he thinks that Bulma is a puta or "la chingadera" of the series. That would be an insult to DBZ.

If you're not catching on, chingadera is Spanish for whore along with puta. Your little Spanish lesson of the day.

It's funny because I knew what that meant... I've been listening/watching George Lopez with my Ipod a lot recently.
<--Why you cryin'? [/off-topic]
-Rick

[TAS]

1. Action is too stretched out (not enough per episode)

Its because of filler.

If the series wasn't padded out it probaly flow very quickly like the movies.

2. Story sucks (or, more correctly, is extremely repetitive)

Well given that it was originaly supposed to end with Freeza (then later Cell) it wouldn't have been as much in the way it is now.

3. Villians aren't original (for the most part)

Considering they were all designed back in the 80s you shouldn't expect too much of the designs if you're comparing them with everything of the now, or if you only compare them with villians from the same timeframe they look better.

Also in terms of physical design(s) there's not much out there that looks like Cell, especialy at the time he was created.

4. Good characters have almost all identical personalities (i.e. Vegeta and Piccolo, Gohan and Goku)

Replacement characters.

This often happens in video games, especialy fighting games, they remove chars (or use them less) in favor of someone new or whatever, example Gohan was supposed to "replace" Goku as the hero, thus Gohan became somewhat of a Goku clone.

5. All "super" attacks are basically the same.

There's only so much you can do with giant ki blasts.

[Kaboom]

...Lemme guess. Is this "friend" one of those elitist jerks with no appreciation for "classic" anime who we like to call "Anime Snobs?" If so, I usually just don't deal with them... But if you insist...

- Tell him to go sit down in the bookstore, and not talk to you about it like he's some mo'fo' expert again until he's started with "DragonBall Volume 1," and read all the way through "DragonBall Z Volume 26."

- Then tell him that both the manga and anime are about 20 years old at this point, and that the story themes, character themes, and that are now common, especially in other manga, were done by DragonBall before most others.

- Tell him it's a good thing the action in the anime was stretched out at points, because otherwise the anime, being produced while the manga was still being serialized, would've caught up to the manga, and DragonBall/Z would have ended up as a botched blasphemy like the final story arc of the Rurouni Kenshin anime.

- Then if he's still being a snobby jerk, tell him to just go home because his dog is in need of someone to relieve its sexual tension.

[desirecampbell]

My "friend" gave me a paper on why Dragon Ball Z sucks. Here's what it said.
That's what he wrote. I've been trying to argue with him for about an hour but I am really bad at debating. Please help. He's really cocky.

1. Action is too stretched out (not enough per episode)
Other than the Freeza/SSj Goku fight? Not really. And that's just the anime, the manga goes by at a nice pace.

2. Story sucks (or, more correctly, is extremely repetitive)
Um, "hero is confronted with difficulty, hero overcomes difficulty" is every story ever written.
What are the main plots for DB?
-Scavanger hunt for magic balls
-Fight with an Army
-Fight with a little demon warlord
-Fight with his master's rival's students
-Train and fight to be the best in a world tournament
-Fight with the most powerful and evil Demon King on the planet (who actually succeeds in taking over the world) released by that little demon warlord
-Fight the Demon King's clone/son and the tournament
-Fight alongside his new wife journying into the furnace of eight divininations
-Team up with that Demon Jr. against the hero's long lost alien brother
-Team up again against that alien's superiors, who have the power to wipe out whole planets.
-Train under the Lord of Worlds after a long journey that takes the hero through Hell, and a demon snake princess's lair.
-Travel to another planet to revive your friends, get caught up in a fight between that last alien and his superior, the evil Emperor of the Galaxy (who has the power to wipe out whole solar systems).
-Fight the evil Emperor of the Galaxy and the hero becomes the legendary hero to defeat him.
-Fight the artificial creations sent out by a man who's life was ruined by the hero. Then defend them as they are targeted by another creation who will use them to become stronger.
-Fight the ancient ultimately destructive evil long seal beneath the planet's surface.

Seems less than repetitive to me.

3. Villians aren't original (for the most part)
Again, compared to what? Pilaf was pretty original; the RR army was full of characters; Yamcha, Oolong, Ten, Choazu, Piccolo, Vegeta, Buu all share the fact that they were enemies and then become allies but other than that they're all quite different; I can't see how Freeza, the androids, Cell, or anyone else is rally that similar.
Freeza and Coola are kind of similar, but they are brothers, and their personalities and powers are quite different. Same deal with Telluce and Goku, looks similar everything else is different.
Lord Slug isn't original at all. That's about it really.

4. Good characters have almost all identical personalities (i.e. Vegeta and Piccolo, Gohan and Goku)
Yeah. Vegeta and Gohan have exactly the same personality. Right. Tell your friend to watch the goddamn show before he says stupid shit like that.
All the characters have different personalities. Even characters that seem, on the surface, to act similarly do so for vastly different reasons.

5. All "super" attacks are basically the same.
Um, all attacks are basically the same. You hurt the other guy. What does he mean by "all the same"? Buu's got attacks like 'liquefy, enter opponent's mount, explode opponent' and a scatter-blast that takes out a planet-worth of people at once. The Sokidan is a manually controlled energy bomb. The makensoppopo (holy crap, that's not even close to being right) is a corkscrew blast that goes right through your opponent. The Kanzien is a flying disc that cuts its target down. The Genki Dama takes energy from outside life, the Ryuken manifests an actual dragon to crush the opponent, the kamehameha is a standard energy wave that can be altered to fire underwater, two at once, bend in the middle, fired from the feet...


Let me guess, your friend likes to watch Bleach, or Naruto, or another shonen anime - but hates DBZ? If so, kick him in the balls for me.

[KinoFourpaws]

Tell him it's a good thing the action in the anime was stretched out at points, because otherwise the anime, being produced while the manga was still being serialized, would've caught up to the manga, and DragonBall/Z would have ended up as a botched blasphemy like the final story arc of the Rurouni Kenshin anime.

Well, either that or it could have ended up like the Fullmetal Alchemist anime did... they really jumped the gun on that series so they ended up coming up with something completely different at the end, but it's still just as awesome as the manga. (But then again, considering how FMA was 51 episodes and a movie and DBZ was 291 episodes and thirteen movies, it probably wouldn't be as easy to do the same thing with DBZ... @_@; )

[Kaboom]

Let me guess, your friend likes to watch Bleach, or Naruto, or another shonen anime - but hates DBZ? If so, kick him in the balls for me.

Oh, I second that. I f***ing hate ignorant idiots like that.

"Oh man Dbz sux so mcuh they copied so much off bleach super siayan is just like ichigos banka9i..."

*BAM*

*Blood splatter*


Don't get me wrong; I like and methodically follow both Bleach and Naruto. But I'm mature and smart enough to know not to compare them to DragonBall.

[shannarafan]

Want me to do it? I'd love to open up a can of whoop-ass.

Just kidding. But you can tell him that non-repetitive anime is overrated.

[KinoFourpaws]

Let me guess, your friend likes to watch Bleach, or Naruto, or another shonen anime - but hates DBZ? If so, kick him in the balls for me.

Oh, I second that. I f***ing hate ignorant idiots like that.

"Oh man Dbz sux so mcuh they copied so much off bleach super siayan is just like ichigos banka9i..."

*BAM*

*Blood splatter*


Don't get me wrong; I like and methodically follow both Bleach and Naruto. But I'm mature and smart enough to know not to compare them to DragonBall.

Especially since at least one of them was INSPIRED by Dragonball!

Not much of history buffs those fans are, huh?

[Sebastian (SB)]

If you're friend is really cocky, then there's no point in arguing. I've dealt with those people before, they'll just go about their ways, regardless whatever vaild points you give.

[Grandmaster J]

You're either going to LOVE Dragon Ball, or HATE Dragon Ball. There is no in between. You either think it's fantastic, or you think it sucks. To each his own, I say. You're friend will NOT budge dude, no matter what you say to, or show him. Trust me on this. Just leave it alone. I've been in arguments myself, and haters like that will always have to have the last word. They just have no respect for the classics!

[Mr.Piccolo]

You're either going to LOVE Dragon Ball, or HATE Dragon Ball. There is no in between.

Not exactly true. I know people, many people, that are in the "meh" zone meaning they used to like it (mabye even love it) but they just don't care about it as much as they used to. I'd like to point out that some of those people are "Naruto>DB" fans now...
-Rick

[KinoFourpaws]

You're either going to LOVE Dragon Ball, or HATE Dragon Ball. There is no in between.

Not exactly true. I know people, many people, that are in the "meh" zone meaning they used to like it (mabye even love it) but they just don't care about it as much as they used to. I'd like to point out that some of those people are "Naruto>DB" fans now...
-Rick

Aah, but hopefully the swarm of fillers will eventually wear them down. They'll someday realize that that's not how a fan-base should be treated... and maybe they'll decide to come back to their roots afterwards. Mwahaha... *sly look*

[tarsonis]

he's seen all of them.

Inform him if he actually has time to watch all of them, he should be watching the Japanese version. And if he says he has, tell him it doesn't suck just because it's an old show, and that many newer anime were influenced by it.

I had a "friend" who said the same thing once about 6 years ago. Needless to say, he wasn't able to back his statement up at all. There are people who think it's cool to be ignorant.

[QuantumDestiny]

1. Action is too stretched out (not enough per episode)
Stretched out action is way better than 90% angsty flashbacks and then some action. A LOT of anime is like that. DBZ follows actual time it would take to fight a battle.

2. Story sucks (or, more correctly, is extremely repetitive)
How many other anime have the main character grow up, have a child, get a grandchild!? The story isn't just a bunch of youthful people with powers saving the day. They die! They stay dead! And unlike a lot of other anime, when they come back to life, it's a legitimate long-existing way (the dragonballs) which is used. Unlike others where all of a sudden, some never-before-mentioned ability can bring someone back -_-;

3. Villians aren't original (for the most part)
WHAT!!! GOOD GOD! When was the last time any other anime had a huge pink blob who could turn you into CANDY as a villian? Or a creature made up of all the heroes DNA come back into the past to kill everyone? Or a space lord tyrant who destroyed entire world's and races? Compared to every other anime out there, DBZ has freakin original villians. (cough weirdlong/flowing-hairedevilmen cough)

4. Good characters have almost all identical personalities (i.e. Vegeta and Piccolo, Gohan and Goku)
Now he's just pushing it. What the hell does that have to do with anything? They aren't identical wtf!

5. All "super" attacks are basically the same.
Ok no, DragonBall has the most interesting attacks ever. He's just brainwashed that the genki dama is the be all and end all.



But listen, my friend there is no need to debate about DBZ. Simple solution ->

1) Punch to the gut.
2) Trash talk. "That's why DBZ 0wns. Now go back in time, get stronger, and come back with better reasons to blow me to hell."

[Mr.Piccolo]

Hey guys! I'd just like to point out that I was the friend daizensushi was talking about. Everything that I said was true and I hope there is no hard feelings, ya know because at the end of the day we're all on the same boat even if you do follow a stupid show for kiddies haha. Five Minutes Later... My fate on the forum lies on the clicking of the link..
-Rick