Season Six Discussion Thread

[Hao_Kaiser]

This is ridiculous, why don't they just put the full picture on there already.

Consistency, maybe?

I'd honestly be a lot more agitated if every other set was cropped instead of the way it is now.

Plus, I think these are the only masters that FUNi has now, or something to that degree. I'm honestly not sure.
---

I really have to wonder if all the FUNi singles have been that zoomed in... Because that seriously almost makes the cropping issue irrelevant.

Well, not really, but... Yeah. Based on The Time Traveler's image, though, I have to wonder if we've been up in arms over nothing.

And before anyone says anything, I still think cropping the series was a retarded move on FUNi's part, but that comparison picture makes me feel a little bit better about the whole thing... When I ignore the DragonBox part...

*sigh*

[Captain Awesome]

It looks like FUNimation zoomed in a bit more than usual in their original releases, there was a shitload of glue visible on the singles.

I think everyone knows by now that I hate these things, but even I can admit that this is the best one yet.

[SSJ2bardock]

@Captain Awesome, I didn't recognize you with that spiffy new avatar

The Dragonbox and Season Sets both have parts of the scene that the other doesn't so why haven't they, for lack of a better term, combined them so we get the whole picture?

[Levlik]

@Captain Awesome, I didn't recognize you with that spiffy new avatar

The Dragonbox and Season Sets both have parts of the scene that the other doesn't so why haven't they, for lack of a better term, combine them so we get the whole picture?

It's possible that there is some film damage at the four corners at the edge of the frame, hence why Funimation crops it into widescreen. In other words, if that theory's right, then essentially you'd be seeing four awkward looking black boxes at the top and bottom of the screen if they decided to zoom out but not crop the top and bottom.

[Captain Awesome]

@Captain Awesome, I didn't recognize you with that spiffy new avatar

Man, I finally get some recognition!, and what do I do, I flush it down the toilet with my new avatar.

Seriously though, whats more awesome than Kuririn in his cap and jacket outfit, he's my favorite character in Super DBZ for that sole reason.

Anyway, about the whole cropping issue, every other season set has lost a large amount of footage due to the cropping, this is the first time it's been somewhat negligible, even so, one set where the cropping isn't a major issue doesn't negate the constant fuck ups by FUNimation with these releases.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

@Captain Awesome, I didn't recognize you with that spiffy new avatar

Man, I finally get some recognition!, and what do I do, I flush it down the toilet with my new avatar.

Seriously though, whats more awesome than Kuririn in his cap and jacket outfit, he's my favorite character in Super DBZ for that sole reason.

Anyway, about the whole cropping issue, every other season set has lost a large amount of footage due to the cropping, this is the first time it's been somewhat negligible, even so, one set where the cropping isn't a major issue doesn't negate the constant fuck ups by FUNimation with these releases.

...I have to say, I didn't know who you were either when you changed your avatar. I didn't notice until JUST NOW who you were, and I probably should have bothered to look up half an inch to see the name over the avatar of this strange fellow posting everywhere.

[ect5150]

@Captain Awesome, I didn't recognize you with that spiffy new avatar

The Dragonbox and Season Sets both have parts of the scene that the other doesn't so why haven't they, for lack of a better term, combine them so we get the whole picture?

It's possible that there is some film damage at the four corners at the edge of the frame, hence why Funimation crops it into widescreen. In other words, if that theory's right, then essentially you'd be seeing four awkward looking black boxes at the top and bottom of the screen if they decided to zoom out but not crop the top and bottom.

The 4 corners of of the original film are not square, but rounded. I believe the DBox gets the most while missing all rounded corners, FUNI's widescreen goes out past that, but since they don't go high & low, they can avoid it as well. Basically, the 4 corners of our combined picture are rounded off and are partially black.

This was evident when FUNI released those images showing how they were getting more image using widescreen (the few images were of King Kai & Gregory). Anyone have a link to those?

[BrollysKin]

Quick somewhat unrelated question if I may.

When I watch my tv shows on dvd. I like to stretch the image to fill the entire screen. Many times I am unable to make it a perfect fit.

I just wondered if in general you would lose the same amount with the funimation footage that you would when you stretch the image?

Sorry for reposting this, but I don't think this question warrants an actual thread of it's own.

Thanks guys

[VegettoEX]

Quick somewhat unrelated question if I may.

When I watch my tv shows on dvd. I like to stretch the image to fill the entire screen. Many times I am unable to make it a perfect fit.

I just wondered if in general you would lose the same amount with the funimation footage that you would when you stretch the image?

Sorry for reposting this, but I don't think this question warrants an actual thread of it's own.

Thanks guys

I don't think anyone's answered your question because it doesn't actually make any sense. When you "stretch" an image, you don't "lose" anything.... you just... stretch it out.

[ect5150]

Quick somewhat unrelated question if I may.

When I watch my tv shows on dvd. I like to stretch the image to fill the entire screen. Many times I am unable to make it a perfect fit.

I just wondered if in general you would lose the same amount with the funimation footage that you would when you stretch the image?

Sorry for reposting this, but I don't think this question warrants an actual thread of it's own.

Thanks guys

You mean you have a 16x9 TV and you place it on the "zoom" option with the 4x3 DVDs? Therefore creating the same widescreen effect?

[desirecampbell]

Quick somewhat unrelated question if I may.
When I watch my tv shows on dvd. I like to stretch the image to fill the entire screen. Many times I am unable to make it a perfect fit.
I just wondered if in general you would lose the same amount with the funimation footage that you would when you stretch the image?

Sorry for reposting this, but I don't think this question warrants an actual thread of it's own.
Thanks guys

You can usually tell a widescreen TV to do a couple things to a video source: (1)leave it as-is, (2)stretch it to 16:9, (3)stretch it to 4:3, (4)crop it to 16:9, (5)and crop it to 4:3.

1. I actually don't see this as an option on a lot of TVs, but it should be the default setting: if the video is 4:3, it'll center it and give you black columns on either side (called 'pillar boxing') while if the video is wider than your TV (you'll see some movies that are 2.39:1, whereas 16:9 TVs are 1.78:1) you get some small black bars to the top and bottom (called 'letter boxing')

2. One option (that I see as the default far too often) is to simply stretch the image to fit the whole screen, distorting the image.

3. Similar to the previous, but stretches the video to 4:3 instead of 6:9

4. Instead of distorting the image, the video is zoomed in so that it fits the whole screen, cutting off any part of the frame that falls outside that area.

5. Same as previous, but usually means forced pillar boxing.
(If there's still questions, I'll post example images later.)


Also of some importance, before it is brought up, is the 'overscan' issue.

http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.p ... 688#170688

The overscan thing is bullshit. If your TV has forced overscan, the widescreen will NOT mean seeing more of the image, even at absurd levels of overscan.

Here's a 4:3 TV with an insane 20% overscan with both the 4:3 and 16:9 cropped video.


And here's a 16:9 TV with the same 20% overscan and 4:3 and 16:9 video.


As you can see in both cases the cropped footage shows LESS video than the 4:3 footage.


And of course, this is only if your TV has forced overscan from a digital signal, which isn't common for any new-ish TV. In fact, if you have an LCD or plasma TV you have zero forced overscan, so you see every pixel.

Long story short: it's bullshit.

[BrollysKin]

You mean you have a 16x9 TV and you place it on the "zoom" option with the 4x3 DVDs? Therefore creating the same widescreen effect?

That's exactly what I meant.

Quick somewhat unrelated question if I may.

When I watch my tv shows on dvd. I like to stretch the image to fill the entire screen. Many times I am unable to make it a perfect fit.

I just wondered if in general you would lose the same amount with the funimation footage that you would when you stretch the image?

Sorry for reposting this, but I don't think this question warrants an actual thread of it's own.

Thanks guys

I don't think anyone's answered your question because it doesn't actually make any sense. When you "stretch" an image, you don't "lose" anything.... you just... stretch it out.

But that's not true in the situation I just described. My television in particular cant just fill the screen with the 4:3 image. It crops bits of at the sides as well as top.

[Vegard Aune]

This is ridiculous, why don't they just put the full picture on there already.

Well, I guess FUNi just has a "Minimum-shittiness-requirement" when it comes to Dragonball or something. Though in this case, it looks like they've gotten closer to a genuinely good release of the TV-series than ever. The quality seems okay, and the cropping has been reduced to the point where, if you watch it on a 4:3-TV in letterbox-mode, you propably won't lose any footage at all compared to watching the single-DVDs on the same TV. (Funny how watching the sets on a 4:3-TV is actually a better option than a widescreen-one, isn't it?)

Though their remastered movie-releases are still the only releases that I think are geniunely well-done, what with how the image is SUPPOSED to be in widescreen for those, and how the video-quality is about as good as it can get with FUNi's mediocre masters. While the lack of alternate angles for the movie-titles bothers me a bit, I can live with it as long as everything else is done properly, which it is.

[johnboy1]

I'm hoping, in a decade or so, FUNimation will be able to obtain the original masters and put them through Lowry Digital Processing. For those who don't know, there's essentially two ways to remove grain: Lowry and DVNR. As we have all seen, DVNR essentially blurs the picture. The grain is still there. We just can't see it. That's all well and good, but we also can't see a lot of the minute details (this is a bigger problem for live action films than it is for animation). Lowry, on the other hand, is a manual process that simply removes the grain itself. Now, since the grain is part of the image, this leaves holes in the picture.

This is where Lowry's coolest feature (in my mind) comes in: it scans the color and texture around the grain-hole, then does a "best guess" fill-in where the grain used to be. When it's done, you are essentially seeing an approximation of what the film would look like if the grain had never existed. No detail lost, because all the non-grain portions of the image haven't been touched. In fact, from a certain point of view, detail is gained, because we now have information where grain used to be. I don't see it that way because that information was made during the process and not during the original production, but the fact that we lose nothing is good enough for me.

Granted, purists throw a fit over this (like how they somehow believe hiss adds depth and clarity to audio; go figure), but the result is an image that looks like you can reach right into it. Unfortunately, this is a frame-by-frame process that costs quite a bit of money per frame. It won't be affordable for something as non-mainstream as anime (in America, particularly) for some time, but when the time comes, I hope to see a 4:3 Lowry restoration of my favorite anime.

...

Of course, we're talking about FUNimation, so I might as well as them for a date with Hillary Duff, too.

[ect5150]

there's essentially two ways to remove grain: Lowry and DVNR.

Many a grad-student's thesis may disagree with that statement... but all grain removers face the same problems, mainly 1) how to identify actual grain versus actual picture detail and 2) how to properly replace/remove/repair it.

Try to do this yourself and you realize its a difficult process to even begin to master. My opinion, is no algorithm can top the quality of having an artist perform frame by frame touches (although, that goes more toward dirt removal). But film grain is there... its often a natural part of the image. Its not a bad thing, I don't understand why some people are against it.

[johnboy1]

But film grain is there... its often a natural part of the image. Its not a bad thing, I don't understand why some people are against it.

Except that it's not natural. Well, I mean in that it's not actually there. Well, I mean... damn it. This is hard to explain. When they film something, there isn't a thin sheet of ever-moving grain in front of the actors. There's just the actors, the sets, the props, and any CGI that's to be done later. That's all we want to see: what was meant to be on the film. We believe intent trumps reality, essentially. Grain is simply a byproduct of the film-making process. The grain isn't constructed along with the film. It's not like sprocket holes or something: if it had never been there, we wouldn't have missed it. Am I getting my point across at all?

On the other hand, if I have to deal with grain in exchange for not blurring the fuck out of the details, bring it on. However, if a "lossless" process like Lowry is ever made cost-effective for the every-movie, I would make a strong push for its use on anything and everything the studios can get their hands on.

[TheMajinRedComet]

Grain is bad! Unless we are playing silent hill in my opinion.

[MajinVejitaXV]

Grain is bad! Unless we are playing silent hill in my opinion.

TheMajinRedComet: For when you lack other sources of input, and must resort to someone who can't spell Chris Sabat's name right.

Just kidding...sorta...

-Corey

[Vekurotto]

The only time the grain really bothered me was on the Freeza-Android discs because there was so much that it made still images look completely frozen. Coupled with that Funi zoomed in the picture on those it just looked horrible.

Other than that I have never found or even minded the grain. It's an old series so naturally there's going to be grain.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

The idea of a hypothetical perfect master, completely clean and devoid of film grain, is definitely interesting to a portion of my mind.

But I'm also USED to film grain when watching Dragonball. I won't fuss if the picture isn't worse than what I had on my TV screen during the original run, given that nothing else is done wrong.