This is my Mystic Gohan Theory.

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Post by Ninja Poe Bear » Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:34 pm

Kendamu wrote:On par meaning that they're both unnatural enhancements or that they'd be around the same strength? If the former then I could see what you mean.
Yeah... I kinda meant both. Because you think about it, the earrings and mystical enhancement are from the same species. So if something was powerful enough to cancel out the fusion form, then there is a good chance they can also cancel out the mystical enhancement.

But I also was given other ideas, after I mentioned yours. And some say that he might have asked for it to be removed... while others say that it only worked while Elder Kai was alive. And some say that it had a duration.

Man... I am so adding this question to Toei, when I finally write to them.
Hero 004 wrote:I didn't say that he trained to unlock the power. I said that he trained afterward to get used to it and incorporate the energy into his Super Saiyan levals.
Sorry for saying it differently, but that is what I was referring to. And from what I had seen, he got used to it when Elder Kai was doing that 20-24 hour ritual.

But thinking about it, I can only assume that Supreme Kai was trying to go with the same result with the training he was doing with Gohan. But, then again, this is also something I am going to ask Toei about. :P
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Post by Duo » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:19 am

If Gohan lost the Rou Kaioshin's powerup, then Boo wouldn't have experienced such a substantial increase in Ki from absorbing him. He wouldn't have surpassed the former incarnation in which he wore the fusion vest, that is certain.

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Post by Ninja Poe Bear » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:09 am

Duo wrote:If Gohan lost the Rou Kaioshin's powerup, then Boo wouldn't have experienced such a substantial increase in Ki from absorbing him. He wouldn't have surpassed the former incarnation in which he wore the fusion vest, that is certain.
Not true. And I'll just say this in two theories.

One, Super Buu was able to adapt to Gohan's Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 power reserves. Meaning that he has the ability to trigger those forms and gain the extra energy. [Hence the "Super Buu" name.]

Two, Gohan's regular Power Level was a huge enough jump for him. Because if he was as powerful as his Cell Games Saga self, and this is a gross estimate, he could have had a power level of 48,000,000. Which could mean that his full powered self was 300,000,000. [That is, if the "Mystic" form was the combined powers of Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2.]

[Note to self: Add that to theories.]

And also, I like the fact you say "Boo" and not "Buu." It's very manga-esque. And I mean that in a good way. :D
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Post by desirecampbell » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:52 am

Ninja Poe Bear wrote: One, Super Buu was able to adapt to Gohan's Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 power reserves. Meaning that he has the ability to trigger those forms and gain the extra energy. [Hence the "Super Buu" name.]

Two, Gohan's regular Power Level was a huge enough jump for him. Because if he was as powerful as his Cell Games Saga self, and this is a gross estimate, he could have had a power level of 48,000,000. Which could mean that his full powered self was 300,000,000. [That is, if the "Mystic" form was the combined powers of Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2.]
Wha? That doesn't make any sense. Buu isn't called 'Super Buu' because he "tapped into Gohan's Super Saiyan... power reserves" for several reasons.

Firstly, he CANNOT tap into that power. Buu gains power from the bodies inside him, but he has no control over those bodies. He gained Gotenks' power while the fusion was in effect but once it ended he could not re-initiate it. Similarly, Gohan is unconcious inside Buu, and thus cannot become Super Saiyan to give Buu that power.

Secondly, 'Super Buu' is a fan-term. Furthermore, he is called 'Super Buu' immediatly unpon his transformation from evil/old/gray Buu. Further still, if he was called 'Super Buu' because of Gohan's Super Saiyan powers, why not call him 'Super' from the instant he absorbed Gotenks?

Additionally, the Power Levels you use mean nothing as 1. there is little or nothing to base them on, 2. you give no power levels to the other characters for comparison.

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Post by Ninja Poe Bear » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:40 am

desirecampbell, it's like this (and I am not disagreeing with you, just approaching what you said from a different angle)...

And remember this is still theories based on what I have read and seen.

-The mystic form is a magical form, which means that Gohan's power level reserves are garnered into his natural state. When removed, the Saiyan has the chance to be at their highest form, or just one they can maintain (in this case, Super Saiyan 2).

-Buu's enzymes cannot absorb anything magical, since it's not natural, but could absorb any natural energy before it dies down. This means that if he reverted back to any state, there was a chance he reverted to his highest form first. And at this time, Buu's enzymes caught this and absorbed that energy. [Dance Fusion is natural, since it is more of a mimic to Namekian fusion.]

-As for Super Buu, if it was a fan term... well... it's legit now. ;) Plus, they used different terms for the four forms, which definitely sound "fan-based." :roll:

-And as for the Power Level numbers... guess what? I was generally basing on what Toei approved of. Meaning that the x2.5 modifier and the 5 million mark are approved by Toei, and even by Toriyama himself (from what they first said). And since there are no further pieces of information (Cell Saga never made it past the lagging approval chain)... that is all I can go with. :wink:

So yeah... this is all stuff I want to bring up with Toei. And thanks for expanding my curiosity, as well as making me feel glad I wrote about him (even though they edited my joke, completely disregarded the fact I wanted to write about Vegeta, and added a second Majin Buu article in the same magazine :X). :)

And also, just remember that until Toei or Toriyama explains it all, there are just theories... and no facts. Thats what I am going with these days. :wink:
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Post by desirecampbell » Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:55 pm

Ninja Poe Bear wrote:-The mystic form is a magical form, which means that Gohan's power level reserves are garnered into his natural state. When removed, the Saiyan has the chance to be at their highest form, or just one they can maintain (in this case, Super Saiyan 2).
Your explanation is a little convoluted, are you saying that the 'Mystic' power up takes all the power Gohan could have gotten from his SSj forms and put them into his base form? That's an interesting theory, but there's no way to explain how or why this happens.

Ninja Poe Bear wrote:-Buu's enzymes cannot absorb anything magical, since it's not natural, but could absorb any natural energy before it dies down. This means that if he reverted back to any state, there was a chance he reverted to his highest form first. And at this time, Buu's enzymes caught this and absorbed that energy. [Dance Fusion is natural, since it is more of a mimic to Namekian fusion.]
Why doesn't Buu absorb anything magical? Is there any reason to think that? He is magical, so why would there be some kind of limitation in that area? If Buu had gotten a huge increase in power from Gohan because he was SSj we would have seen him as such when Goku and Vegeta took him out of the 'pod'.

Ninja Poe Bear wrote:-As for Super Buu, if it was a fan term... well... it's legit now. ;) Plus, they used different terms for the four forms, which definitely sound "fan-based." :roll:
Why is it 'legit' now? The term 'Super Buu' is never used in the anime or manga.

Ninja Poe Bear wrote:-And as for the Power Level numbers... guess what? I was generally basing on what Toei approved of. Meaning that the x2.5 modifier and the 5 million mark are approved by Toei, and even by Toriyama himself (from what they first said). And since there are no further pieces of information (Cell Saga never made it past the lagging approval chain)... that is all I can go with. :wink:
Again, listen closely, the DragonBall Roleplaying Game is not, repeat: not, "approved" by anyone. Toei licences from Toriyama, FUNimation licences from Toei, R. Talsorian Games licences from FUNImation.
And a game is the least credible source for information. You cannot say Vegeta is just as strong as SSj4 Goku because he can beat him in Final Bout! Furthermore, the R Talsorian RPG is one of the worst roleplaying games ever produced, believing anything said in that book is foolhardy.

Ninja Poe Bear wrote:So yeah... this is all stuff I want to bring up with Toei. And thanks for expanding my curiosity, as well as making me feel glad I wrote about him (even though they edited my joke, completely disregarded the fact I wanted to write about Vegeta, and added a second Majin Buu article in the same magazine :X). :)
Sigh, did you read my comment in your 'welcome thread'? Frankly, I don't care if you've written for a magazine. It proves nothing.

Ninja Poe Bear wrote:And also, just remember that until Toei or Toriyama explains it all, there are just theories... and no facts. Thats what I am going with these days. :wink:
I understand these are just theories but I'm not sure you do. You keep stating things without any kind of reasoning. These aren't theories, they're bad theories.

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Post by Ninja Poe Bear » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:36 am

Alright desirecampbell...

I have to make this short. So I will spit it out.

One, unless you have read my articles, you are wasting time telling me that you do not care. Because I can care what anybody who has not read it say about my work. And if I did, that would not allow me to remind them that I recieved congrats from a number of people that include Kyle Hebert and Laura Bailey... found that my name is reconized by FUNimation, which means that they will listen to what I have to say... recieved praised by those who have read it, including a fan from Japan (first article)... allowed myself to get work in most forms of media (as I was told by somebody who works for Vivendi Universal)... and even made a combined $700 for a very few pages of information.

Sorry, but telling me stuff that has no effect on me is just like squirting a duck with water. Totally pointless. ;)

Two, Wikipedia has not stated that it was a "fan term," by "Mystic" was. As for the "rough draft" part of my theories... let's just say that I am looking at information mentioned in other RPG books and anime series. [Namely: Magic Resistance and Level Locks.]

Three, with R.Talsorian... they contradicted what you just said. Because they stated from the first book to the third that Toei is the final part of the chain of approval, and they cannot publish anything that is not approved by them. Meaning that this was part of the licensing agreement, and will be restated if you ask them. [This just means that Power Levels in book 2 and 3, as well as the Super Saiyan form was approved by Toei... so it is "anime canon."]

So yeah... if you want my final conclusion on this, just wait or help me with it. And until then, please note that I cannot reply to any replies on this. Plus, just read my articles before saying you do not care until then... as well as contact R.Talsorian about the books, too. ;)

So until then... Ja-na!
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Post by desirecampbell » Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:54 am

Ninja Poe Bear wrote:One, unless you have read my articles, you are wasting time telling me that you do not care. Because I can care what anybody who has not read it say about my work. And if I did, that would not allow me to remind them that I recieved congrats from a number of people that include Kyle Hebert and Laura Bailey... found that my name is reconized by FUNimation, which means that they will listen to what I have to say... recieved praised by those who have read it, including a fan from Japan (first article)... allowed myself to get work in most forms of media (as I was told by somebody who works for Vivendi Universal)... and even made a combined $700 for a very few pages of information.
Sigh, please read my comments in your 'welcom thread'. Dropping names isn't a positive character trait. It makes you look bad. And FUNi also listened to someone who told them to digitaly paint out Gohan's "apple tree" dream. I'd take that kind of "celebrity" with a grain of salt.
Ninja Poe Bear wrote:Sorry, but telling me stuff that has no effect on me is just like squirting a duck with water. Totally pointless. ;)
And refuting my statements with... nothing is also pointless. If I'm wrong, prove it with... I don't know, anything. Anything!
Ninja Poe Bear wrote:Two, Wikipedia has not stated that it was a "fan term," by "Mystic" was. As for the "rough draft" part of my theories... let's just say that I am looking at information mentioned in other RPG books and anime series. [Namely: Magic Resistance and Level Locks.]
I'm assuming 'it' here refers to the term 'Super Buu'. And Wikipedia is notorious for having mis-information about DragonBall. And "let's just say" that everything in your 'rough draft' is wrong. Not just "might be wrong", but "obviously wrong". Also, great segway there, those are totally the same topic.
Ninja Poe Bear wrote:Three, with R.Talsorian... they contradicted what you just said. Because they stated from the first book to the third that Toei is the final part of the chain of approval, and they cannot publish anything that is not approved by them. Meaning that this was part of the licensing agreement, and will be restated if you ask them. [This just means that Power Levels in book 2 and 3, as well as the Super Saiyan form was approved by Toei... so it is "anime canon."]
Firstly, where and when did they state that Toei "approved" of anything? It's not in the books, and it's not on the website. Unless there's somewhere else I'm to look, you are again making stuff up. Secondly, what kind of "approval" are you talking about? Do you mean "they looked it over, scrutinized every statement and gave it their whole hearted agreement"? Or was it more like "Toei 'aproves' of the RPG by licencing it"? That isn't quite what you're saying. Thirdly, Wouldn't Toei's "aprovement" of the RPG's power levels be in direct conflict with the Daizenshuu's power levels? The daiazenshuu sates that Freeza and SSj Goku had powewr levels of 120,000,000 and 150,000,000. These are different from those stated in the RPG book. And forthly, if the RPG was aproved directly by Toei it wouldn't make it "anime canon", it would make it "game canon". Future trunks isn't able to go SSj2, but he does in the Budokai games, does that make it "anime canon"?

Ninja Poe Bear wrote:So yeah... if you want my final conclusion on this, just wait or help me with it. And until then, please note that I cannot reply to any replies on this. Plus, just read my articles before saying you do not care until then... as well as contact R.Talsorian about the books, too. ;)
I'm trying to help you with it. You just refuse to discus it. You "cannot" reply? Why is that?
If you want my conclusion on this, I'll actually say it (what novelty!): you're a baby. You've stated some theories and I've given you my thoughts. You've failed to discus them at all, you've ignored any chance of improving your theories.

You've failed at life.

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Post by Ninja Poe Bear » Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:51 am

desirecampbell, and what was the point of being completely childish and stooping to a level that makes you a complete hypocrite [compared to what you claimed]?

Okay, here is the thing. Your current record has you being contradicted either times. Nine, if you being having a hypocritical nature at this time counts.

With the Power Levels, SkullMac (formerly of Planet Namek) has stated them in the past. The site, when it was up, contained an impressive explanation to those numbers. Mike Pondsmith was right on the money, and only slipped with Vegeta's [in book 1]. Plus, also, in book 2, he explained the difference between the numbers that Akira Toriyama made, and the way it would have been in the RPG [when it came to Freeza], and also solved the reason why Goku's Power Level went from 300,000 to 15,000,000 when he went Super Saiyan. [So who shall I believe? Them or you?]

When it came to the handling of the properly, you were contradicted again. Four people have mentioned it, and three notable people were Mike Pondsmith, Lisa Pondsmith, and Christian Conkle. [Ditto...]

And as for the article bit... again, you were contradicted. Mostly because one person I know, who works [or worked] for Vivendi Universal [hopefully Fox interactive again] said otherwise. Plus my cousin [who works for Harmonix, but with a greater role] also said the same thing. [Ditto...]

In other words, it's like this. I could either spend my time looking up this information, do my moderating job, do my RPG project at Gaia Online, translate my RPG project into the current d6 Tri-Stat system, clean up the house, chat with my friends, check my email, play Budokai 3, write to both Toei and FUNimation, do my laundry, take a shower, watch TV, eat, among other projects...

...or...

I could just drop everything that is more important than solidifying a poorly executed and occasionally changed theory, all because it's what you want. And no, you were not helping. Helping is giving people ideas, and not telling them stuff they know is incorrect.

But hey, here is a word of advice. If you respect a person's forum, follow their rules. And if you want to sound like you are right about things, get your facts straight. Anything else is not worth my time, and can also be pointed out as a violation.

That, and I have learned a simple thing. Namely you waste more time and brain power to insult a person, than you would have wasted if you just not say a thing.

So yes. If you want me to give you a solid execution of my theory on Gohan's "Mystic Form," then just ask for it when I have a chance to finish it. And until then, just remember that I was being respectful to you, and pointed out what you said and did in a respectful manner. Plus, from this point on, your history of contradictions and other wrong moves will be what I think of when you speak to me.

In other words... I have no time squabbling over your poorly execute beliefs. And my time is not your time. So if you want to help, first don't tell me stuff that you claim as fact, and have a fit when I correct you. Because the name calling is sad and ignorable.

And I am hoping this will be locked up now, because of the fact you had to go into name calling and other sad actions that are a violation of rule #5 here [which is the #1 rule I follow].

So please... if you want to be civil, please be so. And if you have to do what you did, do not aim it at me. Thanks.
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Post by Ninja Poe Bear » Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:31 am

Anyway, this is all I will ever say about my theory:
"During the Buu Saga, Gohan breaks the mighty Z sword, releasing the Elder Kai. The Elder Kai then teaches Gohan the Mystic form (an attributed fan name) by meditating over him for 24 hours. The Mystic power-up unlocks a fighter's hidden full potential, taking the base form to it's peak. When the Elder Kai asks him to do that "Super Saiyan thing," Gohan immediately transforms into his Mystic state."
Quoted from Wikipedia, since I could not find a better quote elsewhere, and makes me believe that he did unlock all the level restrictions that are based on what each form has.

Plus, since it's a "power-up," it is mostly [if not completely] magical in nature. Same with the Portara earrings.
You see, Buu in his original form always had the ability to absorb other beings and take on their traits, but this always diluted or dumbed down his power. <clip> His head Tentacle is even longer than before. It streches down to his legs. His tentacle is also alittle bit fatter and wider around his head. His body is more "crisin" than ever before. It's like Gohan's physical features upgraded his own body. <clip> Even though the Potara Fusion was permanent, Enzymes within Buu was much more sensative than the outside world, repelling any unknown force.
This makes me believe more that Gohan was in his Super Saiyan 2 form after he was absorbed. And the reason he was not shown as such was because of the possible fact that Buu was preparing to change forms [thus, shutting down his need of having Gohan's power].

And with that said, I am done for now... and personally request that I do not be disturbed about this for a while. Plus, anybody other than the one who made "claims" about me, please ask to have this locked. Because I feel bad about the fact that it ended with somebody having to flame me, just over a decision. Thanks.
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Post by desirecampbell » Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:36 am

"Okay, here is the thing. Your current record has you being contradicted either times. Nine, if you being having a hypocritical nature at this time counts."
Okay, can you list those contradictions? Can you?


Again, I know you're really trying here, but you CANNOT use the RPG to explain anything about the manga or anime. Really. The RPG it self is shody, as RPGs go. You're using information that, even if well done, cannot be used to explain the main story. You wouldn't think of using 'Sparking' to prove that Vegeta can kill SSj4 Goku would you? Would you?


"So who shall I believe? Them or you?"
What? That is the most childish thing I've ever heard. Should we believe what Desire says, or what a notoriously terrible RPG says to define how a comic book universe works? You should just believe anyone! You should examine the facts and the evidence and discuss the idea with others who have done so.

"When it came to the handling of the properly, you were contradicted again. Four people have mentioned it, and three notable people were Mike Pondsmith, Lisa Pondsmith, and Christian Conkle." There are only three 'notablr' people out of four? Why include the forth at all then? Beyond that, who are thse people? What did they say exactly? Help me out here - try and back up what you're saying.


"And as for the article bit... again, you were contradicted. Mostly because one person I know, who works [or worked] for Vivendi Universal [hopefully Fox interactive again] said otherwise. Plus my cousin [who works for Harmonix, but with a greater role] also said the same thing. "
A couple people, with *gasp* jobs, liked your article? What does that prove.


"In other words, it's like this. I could either spend my time looking up this information, do my moderating job, do my RPG project at Gaia Online, translate my RPG project into the current d6 Tri-Stat system, clean up the house, chat with my friends, check my email, play Budokai 3, write to both Toei and FUNimation, do my laundry, take a shower, watch TV, eat, among other projects..."
Fisrt off, "eating" is a project for you? :lol: he heh heh.
Yeah, you could either 'look up information' and 'actually create a decent discussion' or you could just keep posting bullshit.


"In other words... I have no time squabbling over your poorly execute beliefs. And my time is not your time. So if you want to help, first don't tell me stuff that you claim as fact, and have a fit when I correct you. Because the name calling is sad and ignorable. "
Funny, that's what I've been saying to you.


"So yes. If you want me to give you a solid execution of my theory on Gohan's "Mystic Form," then just ask for it when I have a chance to finish it."
What? I explained why I thought you were wrong and I waited for a reply about it. You have, as of yet, offered no explanations to counter mine. You keep ignoreing what I'm saying.


If you could actually respond to what I've writen about your theories... that'd be great. This wasn't a personal attack. You said "I think this..." and I said "I think it's wrong because..." and then you went "How about..." and I went "No, that's wrong because..." and then you started whining. *Sigh*

(edit--oops doublr post)
Ninja Poe Bear wrote:Anyway, this is all I will ever say about my theory:
"During the Buu Saga, Gohan breaks the mighty Z sword, releasing the Elder Kai. The Elder Kai then teaches Gohan the Mystic form (an attributed fan name) by meditating over him for 24 hours. The Mystic power-up unlocks a fighter's hidden full potential, taking the base form to it's peak. When the Elder Kai asks him to do that "Super Saiyan thing," Gohan immediately transforms into his Mystic state."
Quoted from Wikipedia, since I could not find a better quote elsewhere, and makes me believe that he did unlock all the level restrictions that are based on what each form has.

Plus, since it's a "power-up," it is mostly [if not completely] magical in nature. Same with the Portara earrings.
You see, Buu in his original form always had the ability to absorb other beings and take on their traits, but this always diluted or dumbed down his power. <clip> His head Tentacle is even longer than before. It streches down to his legs. His tentacle is also alittle bit fatter and wider around his head. His body is more "crisin" than ever before. It's like Gohan's physical features upgraded his own body. <clip> Even though the Potara Fusion was permanent, Enzymes within Buu was much more sensative than the outside world, repelling any unknown force.
This makes me believe more that Gohan was in his Super Saiyan 2 form after he was absorbed. And the reason he was not shown as such was because of the possible fact that Buu was preparing to change forms [thus, shutting down his need of having Gohan's power].

And with that said, I am done for now... and personally request that I do not be disturbed about this for a while. Plus, anybody other than the one who made "claims" about me, please ask to have this locked. Because I feel bad about the fact that it ended with somebody having to flame me, just over a decision. Thanks.
Now THAT's what I'm talking about! Awesome, actual discussion.

"When the Elder Kai asks him to do that "Super Saiyan thing," Gohan immediately transforms into his Mystic state."
I don't remember that part, and Wikipedia is notorious for misinformation on DragonBall. Can anyone else verify? Maybe a scan?


I agree that it's possible that Gohan 'lost' his 'mystic' power-up when he was absorbed, and if he 'went SSj2 but "not" to become 'mystic' then it seems likely that he would remain SSj2 when absorbed by Buu.

"Buu was preparing to change forms [thus, shutting down his need of having Gohan's power]"
I don't understand, how would be 'change forms'?


I would like to continue the discussion Infact I'd like to hear your comments on my statements (other than 'hypocrite' and 'wrong').
Last edited by desirecampbell on Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by laserkid » Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:45 am

Oh go pull your head out of your ass. I could care less about this argument but the way you present yourself is pompous and self glamorizing. Dude if you want ANYONE to take you seriously you need to do some extensive work on your superiority complex.

EDIT FOR TIMING: This was aimed at Ninja Poe Bear NOT Desire.
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Post by Jerseymilk » Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:55 am

To sum up Ninja Poe Bear's last two posts:

Translation: I want to pretend I'm smart but I'm not by constantly bragging that I wrote two articles for something that was little more than a fan magazine at best but that was a piece of crap in reality and dropping the names of people who while, nice enough, are practically "beginner" VAs that were hired off the street from a local newspaper ad which in no way negates the right qualifications to properly judge the business or literary side of entertainment. Oh so sorry! I forgot that uhhhh random fan in Japan. Well since he's Japanese that means whatever he says must be true! :roll:

The finish up with NPB, really go back and read your posts so you can realize just how obnoxious, pea-brained, and dripping with arrogance they are.
Last edited by Jerseymilk on Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Xyex » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

With the Power Levels, SkullMac (formerly of Planet Namek) has stated them in the past. The site, when it was up, contained an impressive explanation to those numbers. Mike Pondsmith was right on the money, and only slipped with Vegeta's [in book 1]. Plus, also, in book 2, he explained the difference between the numbers that Akira Toriyama made, and the way it would have been in the RPG [when it came to Freeza], and also solved the reason why Goku's Power Level went from 300,000 to 15,000,000 when he went Super Saiyan. [So who shall I believe? Them or you?]
Uh. You don't have to believe him. Look at the PLs in the Daizenshuu yourself. I don't agree with them, but by the Daizenshuu (which is more offical than an RPG) Goku was at 3,000,000 in base and 150,000,000 as an SSJ on Namek.
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<Xyex> Original Freeza never sounded like a chick to me.
<Kaboom> Neither does Rita
<Xyex> Good point.

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desirecampbell
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Post by desirecampbell » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:09 am

Xyex wrote:Uh. You don't have to believe him. Look at the PLs in the Daizenshuu yourself. I don't agree with them, but by the Daizenshuu (which is more offical than an RPG) Goku was at 3,000,000 in base and 150,000,000 as an SSJ on Namek.
I want to make this very cear, in case anyone has missed it.

The official Talsorian Games 'DragonBall Z' pen-and-paper RPG is the worst RPG ever written. Ever.

Trust me - it's bad. Take your information from 'Final Bout' before you take it from the Talsorian RPG

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Post by Ninja Poe Bear » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:36 am

I'm just ending the mess with this...

Do any of you know what it took to write both articles? Did you know that I was never given any updates, and was never informed that my first article was pushed back a month? Did you know that they only gave me a week to finish up my second article, and even then, I had to send it to them twice?

My article was planned to be done withing a month, since I never did any writing before that time. My only other writing experience were two letters, with one getting me a free comic and another having it being published. The first letter took me a very long time, and not just because of the fact I wanted my information correct. It was because the editor and I agreed on a format, and nobody wanted to reply at the time.

That issue was supposed to be published in DBZ Collector #18, in the end, but the editor [and myself] was hoping to have it been in the issue that sported the Gohan cover [namely because it was about Gohan]. But because they recieved last minute information about "The Legacy of Goku," , the pushed it to issue 19. This meant I had to re-inform my friends of the change, after I tried my hardest to get why it was pushed back a month.

Then a year had passed, and instead of them asking for a Vegeta article [as I hinted to them], they requested a Majin Buu article. This editor, who did the Best of DBZ magazine, said I had exactly a week to get it done. This meant a week to gather all the facts I remembered, the facts I did not remember, and other things. I also added a hint [which they ignored] that I wanted to do a Vegeta article next time. So it took me one day to write the article, because I was so worried about my [currently ex-]girlfriend [since there was a huge storm in her area]. It also took me another two days to get people to reply [namely because they liked my first article, or that is what I believed then].

The article was sent, and in many formats. But it had to be resent two days later, because that editor claimed that "he did not get it." So it took me five days to make sure he did get it. And once that was done, I assumed that I would get my paycheck before it was published [much like before]. But this time around, I did not get that benefit. I had to contact them and ask them constantly about that. And I have ever gotten was a "we sent the request out, so they will mail you your check as soon as they can." [And here, I was thinking, "Damn! I sent the contracts by Priority Mail! And within the day I got it, too!"] And even then, with this annoying me still, not only did they edit what I wanted edited out, they edited out a piece of a joke [as well as mistyped my last name].

And why no third article? Three reasons.

One, I gave up on the idea of doing one on Vegeta.
Two, the denied my idea on reviewing a DBZ product that was not video game or card based [even though I got full cooperation from Lisa Pondsmith on this].
And three, I was getting burnt out on the series and other things I have done for [or with] it over the years.

So what benefits did I get? How about the fact my first article got me congrats-based emails from Kara Edwards , Laura Bailey, and Kyle Hebert. Plus, it allowed me to build up a portfolio that would get me reconized in that [or most other] media-based businesses. That, and when I found those that have read it, they actually gave me their honest opinion [something I wanted from you guys, as well].

And my second article? The same kind of emails, but from Kyle Hebert and the guy who runs his website. Plus, an even [if marginally] bigger portfolio to show. [Sadly, this needs to be redone from the ground up.]

But here is the thing. From that point to now, I have accomplished two simple things. One was being recognized by a FUNimation employee [or I believe that was the case] after I got in contact with them regarding the bootleg Dragon Ball AF games on eBay. Plus, I was granted the chance of jokingly say [at the 2004 Nan Desu Kan], "Sadly, I bet if I went to any Dragon Ball Z fan and mentioned those articles, they would possibly not remember them."

And also, if you bothered finding copies and reading these articles [good luck on that], you would have seen how serious I get when I am posting actual facts and theories-based facts, and not just theories. Plus, also, I would also hope that it would influence people to get up and give people ideas, opposed to sitting down and attacking others and their so-called "faults." Because there is a huge difference between saying "why don't you look into doing this" and "you should do this."

So my point? I made a name for myself by doing what I did. I showed the world that an avid Dragon Ball Z fan, who knows what he is talking about, can too mark a spot in the history of his [or her] favorite series. That they do not need a famous website, or be a professional writer. And that you guys could be spending time and energy into something that could be acceptable to an anime-based magazine, opposed to stoop down to bickering, name calling, and anything else that disregards what rules you must follow.

And my admittingly poorly executed theory? It's just that because I have to be bogged down by people who feel it's better to insult, than to realize the truth. Plus, also, I have other things to do, that do require my time and energy. So, at best, I can only give out half-assed theories that can be altered the moment something more logical comes up.
[b][coming soon.][/b]

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Post by Ninja Poe Bear » Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:53 am

And want to know what I am basing my theories on? Okay, find these books/games/series and look them up.

Ability/form basis: BESM d20 [aka d20 anime]: Alternate Forms; Dragon Ball Z Budokai 3
Ability/form effects: BESM d20: Alternate Forms; Dragon Ball Z Budokai 3
Ability/form cancellation: BESM d20; Dragon Ball Z Budokai 3; Dungeons & Dragons [d20 version]
Magic resistance: BESM d20; Dungeons & Dragons

In other words, there are alternate takes on how Buu was able to handle these forms of magic, as well as the effects that the Mystic form had.

And what I came up with?

The 20-24 hour casting time, which resulted in magic enchantment that had Elder Kai removing the barriers that each Super Saiyan form had. And the end result, which made it appear as "training," is the fact that he was asked to power up to his Super Saiyan form. [The barriers are what the Saiyans have to push and perfect, and is why there were sub-forms in the first place.] [One example is when Arucard, of Hellsing, had to unlock level restrictions just to do a specific ability.]

[Forums terms: In order to make the form possible and permanent, the Elder Kai had to do a magical ritual. The spell-to-ki focus allowed him to do other things while Gohan just sat there. And when he knew that all Super Saiyan-based barriers were removed, and no damage was done, he then asked Gohan to "go Super Saiyan." Spell-to-Ki use can be explained under the "Dynamic Sorcery" and "Magic" attributes of the d20 anime system.]

Then there is the benefits of the ability. This form, in RPG terms, eliminated all needs to use up a turn to power up. [Meaning that if they have three two, and two forms with a "power up" disability, they can only use two turns to achieve both forms. But with the form having him at his maximum, both the defect is eliminated and he gets all benefits from both forms.]

[This basically means as I said. And in d20 anime terms, you would need to seperate each form into seperate "Alternate Forms" attributes. Plus, you would need to use the "Unique Attribute" at 5 CP a rank just to explain the form's unique usage. Plus, also, a "Dispel Magic" defect may be needed.]

And as for Majin Buu, all I realized was the fact that he developed an immunity to magic [which is comparible to a character in Forgotten Realm: Pool of Twilight]. This immunity affects any kind of magic that hits Buu, and possibly what goes inside him. [This is how I concluded on the de-fusion aspect.] Also, when Majin Buu absorbed Gohan, one of the physical changes he had shown was a larger/wider antannae. The only other time this happened, if you recall, was when Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks was the superior power inside of him. [Meaning that Gohan was force to revert to Super Saiyan 2, during the time before he was going to revert to Vegetto's power/form. [In other words, Gohan's power was given the epic-leveled "Dispel Magic/Remove Curse/etc." treatment, and by going what Budokai 3 said... he lwas downgraded to his second most powerful "Super Form."]

[As the site said, the downside of this form is that it lowers both intelligence and power. And this can mean that he must have no chance to manipulate and Ki that is not his own. Plus, also, if he was able to recieve Gohan's "mystic" power, he was also able to drain it... which could have the same result as going "Hyper Mode" in Budokai 3. Meaning that he is draining levels of the Super forms, since it is not his own power.]

And why did Gohan revert to his normal state prior to being removed? The only theory that I came up with is either the fact that Gohan's power was being drained [which explains the defect that this version of Buu faced], or he passed out at the time that Vegetto was going to be fused with Buu.

[This means that if the form was permanent, he eventually made it not be. And if it reverted to Super Saiyan 2, then he was draining Gohan's own power until there was nothing but his base power.]

Again, take note that I plan to submit these to Toei, and hope to get an answer from them... as I have constantly stated. I also do plan to have a thorough and well thought/executed concept on this thesis to submit. But I cannot when I have people like "laserkid" giving me insults that I could get from people who have too much free time, and too little common sense. [This turns a serious discussion into something that makes me rethink the point of discussing it, opposed to rethinking my own conclusions.]

Plus also, take note that I know how to get the attention of companies like FUNimation. I have been planning this for six years, and hope that my name will get them to realize that I know what I am talking about. [Ask, don't assume. Because my idea is one people would like. Unless they hate DBZ, then they would hate it even more.]

So please... take note that by spouting insults at me, you are just wasting your time. You don't know me, and even make me wonder if you even bother using your time in any other manner. I say that with honesty and experience. Plus, also, again... the only people I should presume I am "superior" to are the ones that stoop at low levels of maturity and common sense. [Meaning, laserkid, read up on rule #5 and realize that I have been trying to stick with that from the beginning.]

And yes, after what laserkid said, I no longer see any seriousness in this topic. So I figure it's dead, or beyond dead. [Prove me wrong by discussing any theories you have, and see if you get any ideas from what others said. Do not expect e to have all the answers.]

And desirecampbell, my rustiness on giving an extensive review and conclusion on anything DBZ is exactly parallel to Gohan's martial arts training... which I am basing on the [canon] gap between the Cell Era and Majin Buu Era. And as I said, it has been years since I have done anything to the calibur you expect, and even more with anything that involves this series. [Meaning that you need to chill, and realize how sad it was for you to go into the name calling bit.]

That, and always, the only person I want to hear from... who says that I am right or wrong... are either Akira Toriyama or Toei. So please accept that, and nothing less. ;)
[b][coming soon.][/b]

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VegettoEX
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Post by VegettoEX » Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:59 am

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