What's with the name censorship?

[Adamant]

These three I have problems with, the rest are okay. As I have said time and time again, Frieza is an accurate translation of Freeza and is pronounced the same way, same goes for Freiza.
.

"Frieza", in English, would be pronounced "Frayza". There's no way in hell you could pronounce "Frie" as "Free".

Yes there is, my Portuguese friend. Here are some examples: achieve, auntie, believe, brief, calorie, convenient, diesel, genie, grieve, movie, niece, piece and many more.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Oh, sorry. I forgot that I previously mentioned it.



"ei" can also be pronounced as "ee" but way less commonly that "ie".

[desirecampbell]

Goddamnit, this is ridiculous.

Could "Frieza" and other name changes be pronounced the same as their correct counterparts? Of course they could, English is like that. Just because you can spell it like that, doesn't mean you should. Adding the "i" is stupid, it's a pointless and baseless change from an accurate romanization.



Yes, you are both lazy and stupid if you think the name filter is a bad idea.

1) The majority of people in NA (which makes up the majority of this board's user base, this accounting for the 'majority of everyone' on the site) is familiar with FUNi's (and/or Viz's) names. Not the Japanese names.

Then the name filter will enlighten them on the real names, not ridiculous changes made by one of the many English adaptations. +1 Pro-Filter

2) Just because someone doesn't use the Japanese names doesn't mean they're 'ignorant' about them, or that they'll be confused one someone else does use them.

On one hand, you're right and stupid. And on the other, you're completely wrong. If you use FUNi's dub names, of course you won't be confused by other FUNi dub names, suggesting that that's what we think is insulting to one of our intelligences; but if you're only familiar only with the FUNi names and someone starts using AB Group names, or Viz names, or Hamony Gold names, or Fillipino names (and that's not even getting into non-English dubs) then you will be confused. So few people are familiar with every name change that the filter seems necessary here. +1 Pro-Filter

The vast majority of Japanese names are easily recognizable in the FUNi/Viz names. Ti­en, Fri­eza, Djinn Boo, Vegerot, etc.

If they're that similar then dubbies won't have a problem recognizing them either. +1 Pro-Filter


What reasons could you have against these points? "I don't like to learn things", "I don't care if anyone else is confused", "I don't wanna do a small amount of work to circumvent the filter to use the incorrect names". If you really want to use the filtered names, or there's a topic that demands using them, then you can circumvent the filter very easily. If you're lazy, then you don't really care which names come up. It's only this combination of (let's say) "needy" and lazy that could possibly have this problem.


Xyex, you're smarter then the arguments you're making. If you're still trying to be a devil's advocate, you need to concede points when you clearly have no logic behind it. If you're just playing Devil's advocate, stop. They only people still arguing against the filter don't even read their own posts.

[Herms]

1) The majority of people in NA (which makes up the majority of this board's user base, this accounting for the 'majority of everyone' on the site) is familiar with FUNi's (and/or Viz's) names. Not the Japanese names.

Except that the Viz names generally are the same as the Japanese names, and the few instances where they change them (Pocus, Vegerot), Funi doesn't. I suppose "Her cule" might be an exception, except that Funi uses "Mister Satan" in their uncut DVDs, and Viz's manga freely acknowledges the character's original name. In short, if the majority of forum members are familiar with Funi and Viz's name scheme, then they shouldn't have any trouble with the name filter.

[Xyex]

Goddamnit, this is ridiculous.

Yes, your post was quite ridiculous.

Joking. Sort of.

Yes, you are both lazy and stupid if you think the name filter is a bad idea.

1) The majority of people in NA (which makes up the majority of this board's user base, this accounting for the 'majority of everyone' on the site) is familiar with FUNi's (and/or Viz's) names. Not the Japanese names.

Then the name filter will enlighten them on the real names, not ridiculous changes made by one of the many English adaptations. +1 Pro-Filter

Yes, you are both lazy and stupid if you think the name filter is a good idea.

So... just because someone is familiar with FUNi's or Viz's names they automatically don't know the originals? There are plenty of people on this site who know that Tenshinhan and Paikuhan are the Japanese names and would still prefer to use Tie­n and Pikk­on instead. Like myself, for instance. You're not smarter than everyone else just because they don't use the Japanese names, nor does everyone who uses dub names need to be 'enlightened'. And even those who don't know what they are aren't likely to give a shit at this point. +1 No-filter

2) Just because someone doesn't use the Japanese names doesn't mean they're 'ignorant' about them, or that they'll be confused one someone else does use them.

On one hand, you're right and stupid. And on the other, you're completely wrong. If you use FUNi's dub names, of course you won't be confused by other FUNi dub names, suggesting that that's what we think is insulting to one of our intelligences; but if you're only familiar only with the FUNi names and someone starts using AB Group names, or Viz names, or Hamony Gold names, or Fillipino names (and that's not even getting into non-English dubs) then you will be confused. So few people are familiar with every name change that the filter seems necessary here. +1 Pro-Filter

On the one hand, you're right and stupid. And on the other, you're completely wrong. No one said anything about people who use FUNi's dub names recognizing other FUNi dub names. What I said, and I quote, was "Just because someone doesn't use the Japanese names doesn't mean they're 'ignorant' about them, or that they'll be confused one someone else does use them." which makes no mention of the dub at all, so you did a pretty good job of insulting your own intelligence there.

As for the other dub names, I never really see them used here, and when they are it's usually in reference to those specific dubs, not just casual use. And beyond that there's plenty of other ways to deal with the wide number of name changes than simply forcing certain names to change. Especially since some of the filters either don't actually change to the Japanese name as is the suggested reason for the filter, or just pick one romanization when there are others that are accurate. Specifically Hercu­le becoming (the H word) and Fa­sha becoming Selypa.

A guide sticky would be far better, as it could also indicate all possible accurate romanizations of the name, instead of just forcing one, and it would allow those who choose to use the dub names out of preference to continue to do so without having to do extra work for no reason. Unless you're incompetent it's often possible to figure out who is meant by context, and unless you're lazy it's not that hard to look it up in a guide sticky if context isn't enough. +3 No-filter

The vast majority of Japanese names are easily recognizable in the FUNi/Viz names. Ti­en, Fri­eza, Djinn Boo, Vegerot, etc.

If they're that similar then dubbies won't have a problem recognizing them either. +1 Pro-Filter

If they're that similar subbies won't have a problem recognizing them either. +1 No-filter

What reasons could you have against these points? "I don't like to learn things", "I don't care if anyone else is confused", "I don't wanna do a small amount of work to circumvent the filter to use the incorrect names". If you really want to use the filtered names, or there's a topic that demands using them, then you can circumvent the filter very easily. If you're lazy, then you don't really care which names come up. It's only this combination of (let's say) "needy" and lazy that could possibly have this problem.

What reasons could you have against these points? "I don't like to learn things", "I don't care if anyone else is confused", "I don't wanna do a small amount of work to figure out the character by context or look up names in a guide sticky because I'm too lazy." If you really want to use the original names, then you can very easily. If you're lazy, then that's just your problem. It's only this combination of (let's say) "needy" and lazy that could possibly have this problem.

Xyex, you're smarter then the arguments you're making. If you're still trying to be a devil's advocate, you need to concede points when you clearly have no logic behind it. If you're just playing Devil's advocate, stop. They only people still arguing against the filter don't even read their own posts.

I am doing it mainly because I'm playing devil's advocate, but it is also a point I'm all for. I think the filter is way out of control and we would be far better served using it to kill the random horrid romanizations and engrish weeaboo names. I'm arguing against the filter and I always read my own posts, and on any occasion where I miss by-passing the filter I usually end up groaning in annoyance because Tenshinhan or Paikuhan was certainly not what I'd written an certainly not what I'd meant and certainly not what I wanted to see in my post.

My posts have as much, if not more, logic to them as yours, as I just pointed out above, by simply flipping your arguments back against you.

1) The majority of people in NA (which makes up the majority of this board's user base, this accounting for the 'majority of everyone' on the site) is familiar with FUNi's (and/or Viz's) names. Not the Japanese names.

Except that the Viz names generally are the same as the Japanese names, and the few instances where they change them (Pocus, Vegerot), Funi doesn't. I suppose "Her cule" might be an exception, except that Funi uses "Mister Satan" in their uncut DVDs, and Viz's manga freely acknowledges the character's original name. In short, if the majority of forum members are familiar with Funi and Viz's name scheme, then they shouldn't have any trouble with the name filter.

Her­cule is one I don't really care one way or the other, really. With him it makes no real difference (aside from the (the H word) retardedness). Besides, having trouble with it or not isn't really the point. The point is that it's ridiculous and just plain lazy.

[VegettoEX]

< snip discussion about mission of website >

This is what so many people are missing. This forum is not a separate entity that exists in a vacuum. It is an extension of one very specific website that has one very specific focus and goal. This website is a celebration of the original Japanese version of the franchise in all its forms. Everything we do is geared around that idea. If you're not interested in discussing things with that primary mindset, there are other communities that have just as open arms as we do, and possibly with a different set of ideals.

Julian and I adhere to a specific style-guide that we created for ourselves for all areas of the website, and the forum is not considered any different from any other "part" of our site.

I think the filter is way out of control

Out of control? Seriously? For all of... what?... the couple names being changed? With the rest being corrections of actual mis-spellings (and, hilariously enough, mis-spellings of mis-spellings)? There are arguably eight names currently being adjusted. The rest should be considered a "Make Me Look Smarter!" filter. Are we "out of control" for fixing up the various mis-spellings of "tankobon"...? That's mondo nuts, man.

Did you even look at what the list is, or are you just making things up?

The only names being filtered are commonly-enough-used names that are not accurate to the original Japanese version of the series, which is the sole version that we exist to promote. There are some technical and conversational difficulties/reasons for why things like "Guru" are not yet filtered. Also, just because a name is changed ("Mr. Whiskers the Wonder Cat") doesn't automatically warrant a filter -- it needs to be common-enough and wrong-enough (perhaps even insulting-enough) to warrant the filter. Yes, there's a fine line. Yes, we're OK walking that fine line.

and we would be far better served using it to kill the random horrid romanizations and engrish weeaboo names.

Romanizations can be and are actively used in genuine discussion and explanation (see: Herms' name pun thread). Random, other-country, single-reversioning names that have nothing to do with the version of the show that this website focuses on? Not so much.

It keeps coming down to people stamping their little feet about not wanting their preferred name spellings being changed. That's all fine and dandy, and I encourage you to get involved in the discussion... but you need to remember where you are, what the goal of this place is, what you think you're actually going to accomplish, and how you present yourself in that greater discussion.

The filters aren't going anywhere. The community has requested them, the administrators support them, and it fits in with the mission of the website this forum is a part of. We are happy to re-evaluate things over time, but the best counter-argument the so incredibly few people that don't like it have presented has been... well... just that they don't like it -- and they're not the audience we're here to serve in the first place.

I'd be curious if you nerd-rage when Steve and Clyde use an adaptation of a name that you don't like in the FUNimation subtitles. What's the difference? That you're not a part of the conversation? It's still being "forced" on you, though, right?

[Xyex]

I think the filter is way out of control

Out of control? Seriously? For all of... what?... the couple names being changed? With the rest being corrections of actual mis-spellings (and, hilariously enough, mis-spellings of mis-spellings)? There are arguably eight names currently being adjusted. The rest should be considered a "Make Me Look Smarter!" filter. Are we "out of control" for fixing up the various mis-spellings of "tankobon"...? That's mondo nuts, man.

Did you even look at what the list is, or are you just making things up?

I've seen it. I also remember the original implementation of it, which was just for fixing typos and killing the weird, random, and bad romanizations and weeaboo names. That makes sense. What does not make sense is Ti­en, Tur­les, Kor­in, and Pi­kkon being changed at all. Especially while Krillin and Chiaotzu are left alone and Her­cule becomes (the H word), the latter of which completely flies in the face of 'correcting' anyone.

and we would be far better served using it to kill the random horrid romanizations and engrish weeaboo names.

Romanizations can be and are actively used in genuine discussion and explanation (see: Herms' name pun thread). Random, other-country, single-reversioning names that have nothing to do with the version of the show that this website focuses on? Not so much.

I'm not talking about about the simple/accurate romanizations, I'm talking about the really weird, incorrect, or misspelled ones. Like the Go­kou that's already on the list. And I see far more use of dub names on the boards in genuine discussion and explanation than I do romaniztations, so if their usage is a valid reason not to filter them the same should hold true for the dub names.

It keeps coming down to people stamping their little feet about not wanting their preferred name spellings being changed.

Seems to me it keeps coming down to people stamping their feet about not wanting to see anything but their preferred name spellings being used.

The filters aren't going anywhere. The community has requested them, the administrators support them, and it fits in with the mission of the website this forum is a part of. We are happy to re-evaluate things over time, but the best counter-argument the so incredibly few people that don't like it have presented has been... well... just that they don't like it -- and they're not the audience we're here to serve in the first place.

I only seem to remember requests for the bad misspellings back when the topic first was introduced, not for changing of actual dub names. I do remember being utterly shocked the first time I saw Pik­kon come out as Paikuhan. So either I missed part of it or more were added after the requests ended.

There's only been a handful of people in this thread at all, either for or against the filter. Not much difference in count either way, really, so that's not much telling. And funny, but I thought the audience you were here to serve was the English speaking Dragonball fandom, to which even the filter-complainers belong.

I'd be curious if you nerd-rage when Steve and Clyde use an adaptation of a name that you don't like in the FUNimation subtitles. What's the difference? That you're not a part of the conversation? It's still being "forced" on you, though, right?

Tenshinhan in the subtitles of the Japanese audio track? Meh. Doesn't matter to me. Why? Well, first of all, it's not being forced on me at all and because it's for the Japanese audio. When watching the Japanese version, and hearing the Japanese language, I'd expect to see the Japanese spellings of things. Tenshinhan in a 'dubtitle' track, or CC track meant for use with the English version? Yeah, I'd complain. I'm watching it in English, hearing it in English, I want to see the English spellings.

Now, I know what you or someone else will point out, here. That this site is like the Japanese subtitle track, because it's focus is on the Japanese version of the series. But while this is a somewhat applicable concept, it doesn't quite fit, because I've never seen Krillin or Chiaotzu or (the H word) in a subtitle track, nor have I seen Destructo Disc, Solar Flare, and so on. The site is more like a DVD than a subtitle track because of it's encompassing nature, but it doesn't have an option to switch 'tracks' like your standard DVD allowing the English speaking community (to which the site is aimed) to choose their preference.

[VegettoEX]

I don't understand the Krillin and Chiaotzu examples. I don't know if you're just not checking out the same stuff, but we've been over time and time again how both are perfectly appropriate adaptations of the character names. Hell, I don't even like "Krillin" as an adaptation (I personally feel that it loses the pun in transition), but because it's accurate-enough and has precedent for use in various areas of the world, it doesn't warrant a filter. Isn't that being completely fair?

We serve fans of the original Japanese version first, and English-speaking second. Look at the non-American fans on this board. Look at the non-English sites out there that link to us. The common bond is which version of the show we enjoy the most... not the language we're speaking. In terms of the forum itself and our requirement that discussions be in English... well, c'mon... that's just an efficiency requirement. We can't moderate what we can't read.

And in terms of you wanting only "dub spellings" and such to be in the dub when you're watching it... well, you're not going to like the English production of Kai.

Justification: +1 ^_~

[Kaboom]

To better apply this "audio track" analogy, this site is most like the FUNimation Dragon Boxes. The "Japanese track" is not only the default, but the focus. The original Japanese names and terminology take priority in just about everything, because that is the audience which the site is catering to and concerned with. Any inclusion of the "dub track" at all is a mere afterthought or bonus, and might require a little extra work if you want to use it.

[Xyex]

I don't understand the Krillin and Chiaotzu examples. I don't know if you're just not checking out the same stuff, but we've been over time and time again how both are perfectly appropriate adaptations of the character names. Hell, I don't even like "Krillin" as an adaptation (I personally feel that it loses the pun in transition), but because it's accurate-enough and has precedent for use in various areas of the world, it doesn't warrant a filter. Isn't that being completely fair?

Well, technically speaking, Fri­eza isn't really wrong either, in that regard. A bit stupid, yes, but not exactly wrong. It just lacks precedent in other parts of the world.

And in terms of you wanting only "dub spellings" and such to be in the dub when you're watching it... well, you're not going to like the English production of Kai.

But Kai is not Z, and thus it can do whatever it wants. New series, new dub, new standards~

[Amigo Ten]

Back to the "ie/ei" thing, and consistency in general, what about Jeice? Both Fr-i-eza and Jeice are supposed to have the same vowel sound right (jiisu, furiiza)? Yet one becomes "ie" and another becomes "ei", with the pronunciation changing to "Jayce". It's not filtered though. Is that just because of a lack of an agreed upon alternative? Jeese, Jheese, Jheeze, etc.

Neither is Burter for that matter. Although I'm not sure if it should be. "Burter" does the butter pun just as well as "Butta", but there doesn't seem to be a R sound in the original name, unless the long "aa" can be interpreted as such.

[Herms]

"Burter" does the butter pun just as well as "Butta", but there doesn't seem to be a R sound in the original name, unless the long "aa" can be interpreted as such.

It can. That's where the "r" in "Zarbon" comes from, for instance.

[Amigo Ten]

Huh, well alright then.

[jjgp1112]

How did the thread not explode after Xyex pretty much destroyed all pro-filter logic?

[Amigo Ten]

How did the thread not explode after Xyex pretty much destroyed all pro-filter logic?

If anything he's just argued that not enough is filtered.

[jjgp1112]

Xyex was right. Simply making a sticky showing all of the "correct" names and their changes serves just as great of a purpose for "emphasizing the Japanese version" and doesn't harm any parties in the process. Anyone who is confused has a sticky thread RIGHT THERE to go to, and thus they are "enlightened" on the "correct" names. All a filter does is piss the people who Mike, at so many times, has said currently make up the majority of the fans on this forum.

That would be like me making a Hip-Hop board and filtering all posts that suggest anything other than Illmatic being the greatest rap album of all time just because that's a globally shared thought.

[JulieYBM]

The filter harms you?

And I thought you were going to keep your discorse to yourself from now on?


EDIT: Oh snap, 3333 posts!!

[Amigo Ten]

All a filter does is piss the people who Mike, at so many times, has said currently make up the majority of the fans on this forum.

There's only 4 or 5 people complaining about it.

[Kaboom]

What part of, "Mike's forum, Mike's rules" isn't getting through people's skulls?

He's already said that if you give him some good reason to change the filters, and there's a majority demand for it, he'd do something about it. But you haven't. Most of the "outcry" has been from a small handful of avid, defensive dubbies with little more argument than, "waaaaaah we don't like it."

If that's the best you can do, then you're better off just stepping off and dealing with it.

[jjgp1112]

Y'know, there's a difference between a house and a community. A community is something that you create for the purpose of other people coming to it. I can understand emphasizing the JP version through the general attitude of the forum, but doesn't mean going as far as filtering shit just because you don't want to see it. Again, like me making a hip-hop forum and filtering negative opinions of Nas just because it's a more underground-focused forum. The whole concept of altering people's posts is incredibly baffling, foolish, and petty to me and nothing more than "I don't like it and I make the rules so fuck off if you don't like it" Again, why is it that the only Dragon Ball board that's actually WORTH going to has a bunch of stupid ass catches to it? You guys say, "you can easily go to another forum and not have to deal with it." Are you guys missing the point? Most of us don't WANT to go to another damn forum. The whole reason we're complaining about this is because in a forum we actually ENJOY having discussions in, we see some stupid word filter that provides annoyances that hinder our attitudes. The whole point is that we LIKE the forum and would like to IMPROVE our experience. Do you really think I would choosingly jump over to the IGN Dragon Ball boards, The MFG forums, or the FUNi Dragon Ball board, where I regularly see posts that make me wonder how the person typing it even breathes? As the Weeklytubeshow version of Piccolo would say, "Hell the FUCK no."

I'm assuming some authority figure is saying, "We have a turd in the punchbowl" right about now.