The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

^ Very nice!

Also, the Boo Saga doesn't have much real consenquences. It was mostly the heroes making the situation harder than it needs to be than Boo being a genuine threat plus he hardly "changed" the hereos.

Both the Cell and Buu arcs are guilty of "threat by implication", telling and not showing, simply because of how powerful the two villains are. I'd say Buu is less guilty of this, if only because he is the only villain to reintroduce the Piccolo Daimao-esque feeling of "Oh shit guys we need move or this guy is going to kill everything."- Goku had to convince Fat Buu to stop killing, the Z-team was powerless when Super Buu finds the lookout. It derails later, sure, devolving into the same power-up contest that Cell did, but he's a more urgent threat before he becomes played out than Cell was. But then quiet terror was Cell's entire game, so perhaps I'm looking at it the wrong way.

[TheKingOfKamehamehas]

I wasn't a big fan of Cell now and it is my least favorite saga in DBZ, but it used to be my favorite. I liked it when Vegeta and Trunks fought Cell, it was an entertaining fight. The ten day wait wasn't too bad and I liked it, but the fight scenes after Gohan goes SS2 against Perfect Cell was kind of tiresome. It was a lot of just standing around, Gohan didn't even try to hit. The best part was when Gohan threw the kamehameha at the last second.

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

Am I the only one that thought this thread was gonna be about TV ratings?

In terms of fan reception, when I was a kid, I always saw the Cell Games as one of the most highly rated parts of the story. I use to always see people talking about the awesomeness of SS2 Gohan. A lot of merchandise that I saw when I was younger seemed to be based around the Cell arc, as well- Probably because it was coming out in the US when DBZ was peaking over there.

On a more personal level, I was really hyped up for this arc when DBZ started re-running over here. I'd just heard so much about it from other people, so it became a case of its reputation preceding it- much like Broly. Even still, in my head there's always this idea that the Cell arc is the best, even though that's certainly not the case with me. These days, I always think of this portion of the series as the time where everything looked "cool". I know this makes me sound like a simpleton, but there was a lot of really awesome looking stuff in this arc; the wrecked cityscapes, Super Saiyan 2 Gohan and Perfect Cell's character designs, Gero's lab and the time machine, Trunks with his sword, Cyborg Freeza, the Father-Son Kamehameha, and lots of awesome group shots because this was when the Z-Fighters were most complete. Vegeta's there now, but Yamcha and Tenshinhan are still tagging along. If you own the first Daizenshuu, you'll see Toriyama produced a lot of really neat art for this part of the series. I think this is when the artwork for the series really hit its peak. Story-wise, I thoroughly enjoy the story behind the topsy-turvy nature of the arc's first half. In a way I kinda like the twits, because Toriyama does a pretty decent job of covering everything up. The 'second time machine' plot twist always gets me. I'm not so big on the grunt of Vegeta and Trunks' Grade 2 &. 3 forms and their big part of the arc, but even that had its moments. Trunks, #16 and Kuririn's attempt to prevent #18 from getting absorbed is a stand-out scene for me.

[penguintruth]

The Cell arc is my favorite arc in the entirety of DB.

Though when compared to Freeza, Cell probably isn't really as compelling a villain.

[Herms]

Though when compared to Freeza, Cell probably isn't really as compelling a villain.

I think the most compelling thing about Cell is how he goes through different phases; he starts out as not that big of a threat and has to work his way up to being a world-beater, and his personalty changes accordingly. So at the start he keeps sneaking around and hiding from the heroes, almost the exact opposite of Freeza. Then once he reaches his perfect form and becomes unstoppable he more or less turns into decaf Freeza, with a little bit of Goku's "I wanna fight strong people for the sake of fighting strong people" thrown in. So his decaf Freeza schtick is kind of boring compared to the actual Freeza, but it's a little more interesting when it's compared to where he started out from.

[Blade]

Though when compared to Freeza, Cell probably isn't really as compelling a villain.

I think the most compelling thing about Cell is how he goes through different phases; he starts out as not that big of a threat and has to work his way up to being a world-beater, and his personalty changes accordingly. So at the start he keeps sneaking around and hiding from the heroes, almost the exact opposite of Freeza. Then once he reaches his perfect form and becomes unstoppable he more or less turns into decaf Freeza, with a little bit of Goku's "I wanna fight strong people for the sake of fighting strong people" thrown in. So his decaf Freeza schtick is kind of boring compared to the actual Freeza, but it's a little more interesting when it's compared to where he started out from.

I dunno, I don't really see a great deal of Freeza in Perfect Cell's manner. Freeza's self-anointed sense of universal superiority was a front that covered an incredibly paranoid, insecure and jealous state of mind. He sat on-top of his own tree, his galactic empire, surrounding himself with the strongest fighters to strengthen his position, and in the case of Vegeta, to keep his enemies who he feared may stand against him closest. His ego needed the vindication of power that rule and subservience provided, as his strength, no matter how undoubtedly great, was not enough to fully convince his own mind that his position was infallible. I think his breakdown when fighting Goku showed this, after the battle which up until that point had been no more than a sadistic game to satisfy his own superiority complex, turned into an embodiment of everything he feared.

On the other hand, Perfect Cell genuinely believes that he is ultimate perfection without a semblance of doubt in his mind. He cares not for world domination or having people serve beneath him, nor does he fear anyone. The strongest fighters in the Universe represent nothing but play-things for him to flex the extents of his power, as if some sort of onanistic ritual.

[ABED]

Though when compared to Freeza, Cell probably isn't really as compelling a villain.

I think the most compelling thing about Cell is how he goes through different phases; he starts out as not that big of a threat and has to work his way up to being a world-beater, and his personalty changes accordingly. So at the start he keeps sneaking around and hiding from the heroes, almost the exact opposite of Freeza. Then once he reaches his perfect form and becomes unstoppable he more or less turns into decaf Freeza, with a little bit of Goku's "I wanna fight strong people for the sake of fighting strong people" thrown in. So his decaf Freeza schtick is kind of boring compared to the actual Freeza, but it's a little more interesting when it's compared to where he started out from.

I dunno, I don't really see a great deal of Freeza in Perfect Cell's manner. Freeza's self-anointed sense of universal superiority was a front that covered an incredibly paranoid, insecure and jealous state of mind. He sat on-top of his own tree, his galactic empire, surrounding himself with the strongest fighters to strengthen his position, and in the case of Vegeta, to keep his enemies who he feared may stand against him closest. His ego needed the vindication of power that rule and subservience provided, as his strength, no matter how undoubtedly great, was not enough to fully convince his own mind that his position was infallible. I think his breakdown when fighting Goku showed this, after the battle which up until that point had been no more than a sadistic game to satisfy his own superiority complex, turned into an embodiment of everything he feared.

On the other hand, Perfect Cell genuinely believes that he is ultimate perfection without a semblance of doubt in his mind. He cares not for world domination or having people serve beneath him, nor does he fear anyone. The strongest fighters in the Universe represent nothing but play-things for him to flex the extents of his power, as if some sort of onanistic ritual.

Great observation about Freeza, and even arrogant people in general, they are hiding insecurity through false bravado. As for Cell, I agree that he truly does believe he's perfect, however, when it's challenged by Gohan, then he becomes a lot like Freeza. Hell, even when he wasn't perfect, when in his second form, he acted the same way.

[thatdbzguy]

The problem with the Cell arc is that it is very slow, a very long haul with the final showdown having the protagonist do nothing but stare for most of it. The highlights were when the Cyborgs first appeared, the Final Flash, and Goku fighting Cell with the big blow off at the end with Goku sacrificing himself. Otherwise, there is very little tension, and when there is tension it is quickly defused such as the Cyborgs just taking things easy, or with Cell, since he does not much of anything after he is introduced. Cell had tension surround him at first because he was mysterious but quickly became a hot head who really did nothing but wait around. The protagonists didn't seem to treat him as much of a threat when we compare him to the Saiyans or Freeza where it felt like at any moment the protagonists could perish if they slip up.

While the plot tried to take itself seriously, the protagonists acted very selfish and out of character when they could have prevented things from happening such as the creation of the Cyborgs and Cell upgrading himself. Many episodes were pointless filler, such as the driving episode, where even though there is supposedly a threat to civilization as we know it, life seems to not have changed at all. Cities are destroyed, but to the viewer, it seems like nothing has really changed in the daily lives of our protagonists or background characters. The only time that there does seem to be consequences to our heroes actions is the short arc of Ginger Town where people are disappearing and nobody knows why. It affects the heroes emotions and thoughts and they see the consequences to their actions of letting things get out of control even though they could have stopped it all 3 years prior. However, that tension is slowly defused and deaths become inconsequential. The football team being murdered by Cell seems almost comedic in retrospect since it doesn't affect the plot, the characters, or the setting; same goes for when the islands are blown up by second form Cell. The only tension there is if Android 18 is caught, nothing else matters.

It is not like that in the Buu, Freeza, Red Ribbon, Piccolo, and Saiyan arcs since there is consequence, there is change in mood, tone, and the psychology of the characters. We see how lives are affected by the Red Ribbon or by Freeza where the former is using civilians as slaves for their plot to collect the Dragonballs, and the latter of Freeza causing genocide of the Nameks, the Saiyans and others, and he collects the Dragonballs and is super close to getting his wish. The Saiyans change the lives of our heroes where they are all killed, Goku's life is changed forever since he knows now of his origins etc.
Buu, he causes mass extinction and ACTUALLY SUCCEEDS IN DESTROYING EARTH. Cell, the Cyborgs, accomplish nothing. Cell becomes perfect, one of his goals, kills Son, but those have no concequence since he waits to have a tournament with only one sanctioned fight. Killing Son accomplishes little since the plot could be written the same either if he was dead or not in the way he still interacts with everyone after his death.

Cell seems like a watered down rehash of Piccolo but is unable to accomplish what Piccolo did. The Cell games feels as a clone to the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, except that nobody is really affected or changed going in and coming out of the tournament. Vegeta is shown in the Buu arc to not have changed as a person despite promising never to fight again after his humiliation, and the rest of the Z-fighters were more like static background characters where at least normally they would provide narrative to what was going on to advance the plot and further character development. Don't get me started on Mr. Satan.

Is it okay with you if I link people to this comment whenever people ask why the Cell arc sucks?

[jjgp1112]

The Cell arc is my favorite arc in the entirety of DB.

Though when compared to Freeza, Cell probably isn't really as compelling a villain.

This is pretty much my thoughts too. I do enjoy Cell as a character but he's not quite what i'd consider a great villain or anything.

And OP, I really don't understand what you're trying to accomplish with these type of threads. Are you just trying to shut out as many opposing opinions as possible with some kind of flimsy "appeal to the majority" or something? It's becoming a little obnoxious.

[RocktheDragon]

Also, for what's worth (which isn't much and is very anecdotal) a Japanese friend that I made several years ago told me that for him and many of his friends in Japan DBZ lost a lot of its muster after the Cell arc. And this was coming from someone who was in Japan at the time of the airing of the original DBZ series.

I would love to get Kei's take on this matter though. I'm not absolutely certain, but wasn't Kei around in Japan during the course of the anime? He might be able to provide some insights into what the general Japanese response was. But in terms of the Cell arc's overall popularity I thought it was up there as the most popular or one of the most popular arcs. But that's just been my perception about it.

[TheUltimateVegito]

Well, if you ask me I'd say the Cell saga is the best saga in the series both Story and Action wise. And it also would've been the perfect end to the series (No pun intended).

And I've seen many forum topics and whatnot with the majority of the fans agreeing that the Cell saga is the best. Not that it would change my views regardless.

[thatdbzguy]

How is the Cell arc the best story-wise or character-wise? As AttitudeFan said, the characters act selfishly OOC just to get the plot going, there's no real consequences to anything that happens, and the villains don't have any mental effect on the heroes.

[Fionordequester]

If I remember, he actually does enjoy it, but he has no idea why.

[thatdbzguy]

If I remember, he actually does enjoy it, but he has no idea why.

Who are you talking about?

[Weedity]

I seem to be in the minority here, but I enjoyed the Buu saga more than I did the Cell saga! Not saying I didn't like the Cell saga, I certainly did. I'd say my least favorite was the android saga, which I still enjoyed.

The Buu saga was funny, and I am a fan of Super Saiyan 3. Plus I also enjoyed Gotenks, which I see most people don't really care for very much. I'd have to say Cell saga is not the lowest rated saga, from what I can tell the Buu saga is the lowest rated saga.

[Gokuden]

I think when the Cell Games began, the story didn't do it for me. All the episodes prior were so engaging, and then Android 16's binary was getting all sentimental, and philosophical.

I didn't like how Trunks, Vegeta, and Goku took a backseat. I didn't like how android 16 being trashed was the trigger for Gohan's transformation, I didn't like the fact that Gohan was so full of himself, after being a coward all his life.

Um, hello, this robot's raison d'être was to kill your father, and somehow, he bypassed the code? It's not a living thing, I'd trash it. Gohan was way more forgiving to this tin than Vegeta. Gohan even wanted to waste a wish on this scrapmetal...

On that note, our Shenlong is too stupid to reassemble a toy, but can wish back humans that have several miles of veins, intestines, nerves, a spirit, and wide range of emotions, synapses, and a network of neurofibrilary connections? I lost faith in Shenlong at that point.

Another thing... Androids don't feel pain, or emotion...
Android 16 should have continued to be at odds with the Z-fighters and had either, Vegeta, Trunks, or Yamcha dispose of him.
Gohan should have taken care of Cell, sure, but Goku should have taken care of the Cell juniors.
Chaozu should have died somewhere, and Tien should have lost an arm.

[Fionordequester]

Who are you talking about?

You. I could've sworn there was some sort of apology/explaining yourself thread where everyone got all warm with you, and had wonderful dialogues with you. Am I really just imagining all that?

[DBZAOTA482]

I think when the Cell Games began, the story didn't do it for me. All the episodes prior were so engaging, and then Android 16's binary was getting all sentimental, and philosophical.

I actually agree, but...

Um, hello, this robot's raison d'être was to kill your father, and somehow, he bypassed the code? It's not a living thing, I'd trash it. Gohan was way more forgiving to this tin than Vegeta. Gohan even wanted to waste a wish on this scrapmetal...

The fuck you talking about? Gohan never suggested reviving #16. In fact, he doesn't even acknowledge his existence after he got his head crushed under Cell's heel.

[Gokuden]

I think when the Cell Games began, the story didn't do it for me. All the episodes prior were so engaging, and then Android 16's binary was getting all sentimental, and philosophical.

I actually agree, but...

Um, hello, this robot's raison d'être was to kill your father, and somehow, he bypassed the code? It's not a living thing, I'd trash it. Gohan was way more forgiving to this tin than Vegeta. Gohan even wanted to waste a wish on this scrapmetal...

The fuck you talking about? Gohan never suggested reviving #16. In fact, he doesn't even acknowledge his existence after he got his head crushed under Cell's heel.

That's how I remember it. I remember someone, whether it was Gohan or not wanted to wish back Android 16, and the dragon said it was too complicated for him to bring back 16 because he wasn't skilled in that area. But, out of the grief for the robot, Gohan transformed into SSJ2.

[mAcChaos]

I loved Cell and the Cell saga. I find that graph hard to believe. The Buu Saga is when everyone bailed on DBZ but it's that much higher than Cell? No way.