Masenko

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:40 pm

You know how VIZ seems to think that it's Piccolo's signature move (it says it when Gohan uses it), and it's has the word demon in it, despite the fact that Piccolo never uses it? Does the Daizenshuu (or any other guide) have anything to say about that? I noticed that Piccolo used some Masenkô-like moves in Dragon Ball, but never said the name. Though, when he takes over the king's palace, he tells the world that he'll destroy a city with his "demon ray of obiteration" (as VIZ translated it). What did he say in Japanese?

Ash · Post by **Ash** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:45 pm

That's the Bakuretsu Makouhou (Explosive Devil Light Cannon) according to the daizenshuu.

It also says the Masenkou is one of the techniques Piccolo learned Gohan, which was pretty clear from the name anyhow (Demon Flash) ~_~

Akira · Post by **Akira** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:39 am

Simple fact is that it is the attack Piccolo used in Dragonball. He taught that to Gohan instead of say Makosensappa (Special Beam Cannon) because at the time he feared he may be training the one who would someday grow up and destroy him and still wanted an edge.

A lot of attacks are used in the series one or more times before they are ever named. Go back and check the manga or anime for this example: Vegeta first used Final Flash on Recoome, but did not actually name the attack he was using until he used it against Perfect Cell.

I am pretty sure there is an instance or two where Piccolo actually says "Masenko-ha" when using the attack in Z. I just forget where exactly. I -THINK- one of them was against Freeza Form II and the second was in Movie 8 against Broly. I don't recall for sure on those, but I am fairly certain that is correct.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:37 pm

Akira wrote:Simple fact is that it is the attack Piccolo used in Dragonball. He taught that to Gohan instead of say Makosensappa (Special Beam Cannon) because at the time he feared he may be training the one who would someday grow up and destroy him and still wanted an edge.

A lot of attacks are used in the series one or more times before they are ever named. Go back and check the manga or anime for this example: Vegeta first used Final Flash on Recoome, but did not actually name the attack he was using until he used it against Perfect Cell.

I am pretty sure there is an instance or two where Piccolo actually says "Masenko-ha" when using the attack in Z. I just forget where exactly. I -THINK- one of them was against Freeza Form II and the second was in Movie 8 against Broly. I don't recall for sure on those, but I am fairly certain that is correct.

1) I like to think that the Makankosappo was simply too advanced for a novice like Gohan.

2) Actually, the attack Vegeta used against Reacoom was charged entirely different from the Final Flash, so it really isn't the same thing, however very similar.

3) I do recall the Anime having Piccolo yell Masenko once or twice, but it is not present in the Manga, but there is one time (against Fourth Stage Freeza) that he performs an unmistakable Masenko.

Chaos Saiyajin · Post by **Chaos Saiyajin** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:26 pm

I've always just assumed it was smething Piccolo taught him because he'd only trained under Piccolo and it had 'Ma' in it, which relates to 'Ma Junior' to me.

(Yea, I know it means demon).

I would've loved to see Gohan to use a Makankosappo while fighting Buu or Bebi, that would've been awesome.

Akira · Post by **Akira** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:20 am

I am fairly certain that attack is the Final Flash. I double checked the manga before I responded. In Dragonball volume 23 (DBZ vol. 7), please check the bottom left panel on page 156. In Dragonball volume 32 (DBZ vol. 16), please check all of page 153, and the top and middle right panels on page 154.

Finally, please compare Page 157 in both volumes. You will see something very similar.

I will rest my case on that evidence.

gohan2k · Post by **gohan2k** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:51 am

Duo wrote:3) I do recall the Anime having Piccolo yell Masenko once or twice, but it is not present in the Manga, but there is one time (against Fourth Stage Freeza) that he performs an unmistakable Masenko.

Yeah he definitely says it in the dub, if nothing else and they generally try to avoid using attack names apart from Kamehameha eg Big Bang Attack

Mystic Kami · Post by **Mystic Kami** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:30 pm

Now, I might be totally off, but doesn't Piccolo use an attack called Makosen-ha as well? which is two swapped sylabols away from Masenko-ha.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:34 pm

Not that I've ever heard of.
And Duo, that does indeed seem to be a Masenkô that he used against Freeza! Good eye.

Ash · Post by **Ash** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:13 pm

Piccolo Daimaou does has a Makousen attack according to the Daizenshuu, but not a Makousenha.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:07 pm

Duo wrote:2) Actually, the attack Vegeta used against Reacoom was charged entirely different from the Final Flash, so it really isn't the same thing, however very similar.

GAH!

This is the most illogical excuse I see for this event and it drives me crazy every time I see it! That is a Final Flash. I don't see people claiming that the Kamehameha Goku fires from his feet isn't a Kamehameha cause it's fired from his feet. And that's a far different method of charging, a greater difference than the Final Flash one.

The Kamehameha is performed differently on several occasions and there is never any debate as to if it is the Kamehameha or not. Hell, the first time we see Goku use it the energy doesn't even appear until his hands are already pointed forward. During Z, the energy shows up right after they're cupped at the side. So obviously it's not the Kamehameha used in Z, going by what you said.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:40 pm

Nice reply, Xyex. Nitpickyness = the 3v1l.

Which means, yeah, I've seen that part of the manga (just recently, too) and it's definitely Final Flash-y enough for me.

As for the Masenko, it's a cool attack; bit of a shame Gohan pretty much switched to nothing but the Kamehameha. Mirai Gohan still used it, though.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:53 pm

Anyone want to post some scans for the manga-less among us (*sniff* like me

)

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:55 am

Good job jumping down my throat unnecessarily, Xyex.

I'll lay out the two attacks for people (Manga).

Vegeta's attack against Reacoom

The Saiyan charges up two large balls of Ki on both hands, outstretched backwards, slams them together, then fires a huge, narrow, blast. After the initial impact he continuously fires several more blasts from the same hand position. (Some may have to pay close attention, because this isn't over-emphasized.

Final Flash

Vegeta goes into the sky, puts his hands back (same position as before), screams just like before, and powers up immensly, but there are no "two ki balls" in each hand because his entire aura just intensifies. A moment later, he brings his hands together into the attack position, and taunts Cell for 20 seconds or so. Vegeta shouts "Final Flash" and fires the beam, which has no "ball" of Ki at the end of it like the one against Reacoom. We have a couple of pages of the impact and shooting into space stuff, and the next we see of Vegeta is him setting to the ground.

Obviously, they are very similar[/b], but there are differences that cannot be ignored, plus there was never any indication or anything of that sort as to what the attack against Reacoom was in reference to anything. Maybe Final Flash is an evolution of it or something - I don't know.

And every "strange variant" of the Kamehameha was pointed out as still being the Kamehameha, and the beam itself always looked the same.

Chibi wrote:Not that I've ever heard of.
And Duo, that does indeed seem to be a Masenkô that he used against Freeza! Good eye.

Thank you!

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:02 am

Looking through my folders, I realized I had these screen-caps. This has already been discussed before, but since this is about different attacks, go for it.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:41 am

Thanks for the screens, VegEX. And like I said before...

SSj Kaboom wrote:definitely Final Flash-y enough for me.

As for Vegeta's charging up the "balls" of ki in each hand instead of one big charged aura like later against Cell, maybe it was just because there was more power going into it. I think it's done the same way, but just appears slightly different charging because of the power behind it. Kinda like SSj4 Goku's red Kamehameha from GT.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:46 am

Isn't that how Vegeta fires ALL of his special attacks though? It's more hand gesture than Final Flash. I mean, it's how he fires his multiple ki attacks, his Garlic Gun, this, the Final Flash... He just puts the wrists together and fires a double-handed shot.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:10 pm

Duo wrote:The Saiyan charges up two large balls of Ki on both hands, outstretched backwards, slams them together, then fires a huge, narrow, blast. After the initial impact he continuously fires several more blasts from the same hand position. (Some may have to pay close attention, because this isn't over-emphasized.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:53 am

C'mon, man. Don't just quote yourself. Either add something to the conversation, or don't post at all. That just looks snotty.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:05 am

Duo wrote:
Duo wrote:The Saiyan charges up two large balls of Ki on both hands, outstretched backwards, slams them together, then fires a huge, narrow, blast. After the initial impact he continuously fires several more blasts from the same hand position. (Some may have to pay close attention, because this isn't over-emphasized.

I hope that wasn't aimed at my post; I was agreeing with you in full.

Kanzenshuu

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