GT Time

[Nekoni]

I asked my Pan-fan friend how old Pan is in GT. (In her opinion) Here's her answer- (I apologise prehand for her format)

Pan starts off at age 14. do we agree on this baseline?
when she stows away, she's 14 years of age
they spend an entire year, short a few days, in space
they collect the dragonballs. they come back to earth, and she's 15
so she's 15 when they come back to earth
but OH NO! Bebi is there! he possesses everyone and "kills" Goku. then he takes the dragonballs and MAKES A WISH!!! He makes a NEW wish on the black star balls, for Planet Tuffle to be destroyed, and WOOSH , the balls are off again
a whole year passes, then. we know because Goku is training up with the Kais (pfft yeah right training, ifyou call grinding coffee working out). Before you know it, a huge new space cruiser is built, tons of people are transferred to planet tuffle, bebi has set up his new establishment, and Goku comes back, fights him, and OH NO! EVEN THOUGH BEBI IS DEAD, the worls is about to eXPLODE!
= 1 year has passed
so Pan is 16
but we keep going!
then peacetime comes. long enough for them to rebuild things, get life in order, organize the next tournament, life is good, people are happy
lets say at MINIMUM 6 months
so pan would be 16 1/2 minimum, right?
then hell opens up
they battle for a whole day, defeat android 17 within 24 hours, and then..... oh NO!!!! thy need to find the DRAGONBALLS again
lets say 3 months minimum
making Pan 16 years 9 months..... uh oh, only 3 to go! and we still have an other saga
if Frieza... if defeating Frieza and his gang took 4 months... then I am CONVINCED that defeating 7 dragons 1000 times more powerful than frieza would take at least that long
lets say 3 months
at minimum, Pan would be 17
however, I like to think that peacetime lasted a whole year instead of 6 months
making her 17 1/2
and I also think she was just over 14 when goin gon the trip to space... so 14 1/2 woul dbump her to 18
Pan, at the end of GT, shoudl at least be age 17, and at max, 18

Here's my view:
Starts at 14
+ just under one year in space makes 15 (I'm taking the different view to her in that the Black Star balls didn't reset when returned to earth, thus making it excactly one year when Earth goes boom. I also find it unbelievable that Goku spent a year grinding one cup of coffee o_O)

The 'peacetime' could have lasted a few weeks to a few months, we can't be sure can we? It wasn't long enough for Bulma to change her hairstyle, lol... we can't gauge this time by Android 17's double's construction as Dr Myuu had been long dead at this point.

I don't give any time at this point for the dragonballs to be gathered, given the speed the Z-fighters have shown in the past in gathering them.

I'm also pretty sure Goku fought the evil dragons consecutively. (straight after this attempted wish) as the very world was in danger from its' aura) and it is noted in the final battle that Goku has been fighting for ages.



So, that's her 4 years, versus my year and a few months. *smirks* Now we're all fans here... lets dog-pile on this topic and throw our views and know-how in! (it's tasty, y'gotta' admit)

[desirecampbell]

Having seen only a handful of epidoes, I can't say much - but doesn't the 'GT Perfect File' book say everything happened in year 789?

[LauraNeatO]

Ok here's the way I see it... in addition to above. I think it would take a little longer to find the dragonballs on the second try because 1) i hypothesize the signals on the radar might be weakened because they are cracked, 2) because giru was DESTROYED by Baby, the dragon radar was destroyed too. Trunks fixed Giru during the peacetime saga, but the dragon radar was still history and had to be rebuilt. They had no balls by which to calibrate the new radar... and especialyl since the signal from the balls would be weaker. Also, they three have never had an easy time getting dragonballs. I assume that each of the balls would have its own share of adventures finding.

[Deus ex Machina]

First of all, I don't think anyone can say conclusively that Pan even starts off at 14. The trouble comes from two different "official" sources stating that GT takes place 10 years after Z, and some claim only 5. And while many are quick to point out that Bra is the same age and doesn't look or dress like a 9 year old, Pan doesn't look developed enough like a 14 year old.

So Pan either starts the series off at the age of 9 or 14; the black star dragon balls are used and they go searching the galaxy. They find them all and return with like a month or so to spare, but it was basically a year.

So now Baby is on Earth and Pan is either 10 or 15. Not a lot of time is shown passing but after Baby's defeat everyone suddenly realizes that a year has gone by and the Earth is about to be destroyed again.

So now at the end of the Baby Saga (and presumably the series is wrapped up in a number of weeks afterwards) Pan is now either 11 or 16.

I tend to favor the idea that Pan starts the show off at 9, because by the end of the series she doesn't look 16 at all. She's still very short and completly underdeveloped, and it's not that difficult to tell from her mid-drift shirt.

[LauraNeatO]

I tend to favor the idea that Pan starts the show off at 9, because by the end of the series she doesn't look 16 at all. She's still very short and completly underdeveloped, and it's not that difficult to tell from her mid-drift shirt.

Think about Goku, too. He starts off at 12... and even by age 14, at the end of Baby Saga.... he hasnt grown a single inch. Especially after another year, after peacetime and dragons saga.... he still hasn't grown. And yes, I know in the Dragonball series he's still a shrimp until at least 15... but at SOME point he has to start growing, right?

[Kaboom]

Another thing I'd lie to point out. Finding the D-Balls takes barely any time at all by this point. If you'll remember back to right before the Cell Games, Goku went on a hunt all by himself and got them all in no more than a day or two.

And yes, the biggest problem with determining the ages of anyone in GT is that there's so much debate over when the series even starts. Though if I were in charge, I'd make it ten years; I'd just make sure everything and everyone stayed true to that.

[HP]

Here's my view:
Starts at 14
+ just under one year in space makes 15 (I'm taking the different view to her in that the Black Star balls didn't reset when returned to earth, thus making it excactly one year when Earth goes boom. I also find it unbelievable that Goku spent a year grinding one cup of coffee o_O)

The 'peacetime' could have lasted a few weeks to a few months, we can't be sure can we? It wasn't long enough for Bulma to change her hairstyle, lol... we can't gauge this time by Android 17's double's construction as Dr Myuu had been long dead at this point.

I don't give any time at this point for the dragonballs to be gathered, given the speed the Z-fighters have shown in the past in gathering them.

I'm also pretty sure Goku fought the evil dragons consecutively. (straight after this attempted wish) as the very world was in danger from its' aura) and it is noted in the final battle that Goku has been fighting for ages.

I agree with Nekoni. GT shall take 1&1/2 - 2 years to occur.
It starts 10 years after Z. I don't think arguments like "Pan looks younger than 14" or the "dogmatic Perfect Files says" are much valid. Why?

1) Just like someone said; did Goku look like a 14 year old boy at that age in DB? Did Krillin?...
Besides, Pan may look like younger than 14, but I wouldn't say 9. 11 or so, instead. Remember the little "boyfriend" scene in the begining of the series?!

2) Perfect Files, in spite of being rather amusing, is actually imperfect, as it has some evident mistakes like "761 A.D. Gokou, Piccolo, Kuririn and Gohan battle Garlic Junior and send him into his Dead Zone.". We all know this is not possible as the movies storylines are supposed to be some kind of parallel to the original and almost only hypothetical scenarios "as if...". Why would Goku be surprised with Gohan's emerging power during the fight with Raditz, then?
Also according to these Files, Bra is one year younger than Pan!... *MEGA *


Not to mention the dubs (which have, indeed, wrong content in many occasions, no doubt. But not allways! ) and many other sources of information...



Therefore, for me it's ten years and that's it. Period.
Not even Toriyama or whoever be it could convince other way!

[Nekoni]

I just had a mental flash...

*checks up on it*

YATTA!

The first earthquake is -whilst they're curing the earthlings of Bebi's eggs-! That means a year can't've passed... I knew it!

*watches through a bit more* Dende says if they don't put the dragonballs back where they -were- (assumatively in the excact place) the earth will still explode.

[Chaos Saiyajin]

Crappy, makeshift (theory) timeline made by the penguin king...

Black Star Dragonball Saga
-5 Years after Dragonball GT

Bebi Saga
-6 Months after BSDB Saga

Super 17 Saga
-Must be atleast six months after Bebi Saga, seeing as how Bebi used the BSDB on the Earth and it blew up.

Yi Xing Long Saga
-1 week after Super 17 Saga

There you have it! Chaos's take on GT Time!

[Nekoni]

I just had another thought!

It's far more likely 10 years post Z that GT starts. If it were 5 years, (Bura being she'd be -9- when those guys hit on her (with the car, remember, Veggie) Otherwise she could be 14, much more easily mistaken for an adult. (Believe me, I'm a girl, I was hooted at when I was 14 <_<) Adding that to her physical maturity means it's more likely that she's 14 than 8....

As it is, indeed, quite possible that Pan is short

[Xyex]

1) Just like someone said; did Goku look like a 14 year old boy at that age in DB? Did Krillin?...
Besides, Pan may look like younger than 14, but I wouldn't say 9. 11 or so, instead. Remember the little "boyfriend" scene in the begining of the series?!

Is Pan Goku or Krillin's daughter? No, she is not. She is Gohan's. Look at Gohan for comparison. And not just because of parentage either, but style. GT was following Toriayma's later style with the slight exception of Kid Goku's height (cause we already saw that he, at 12, was short as Goten at 6). Pan matches up nicely with 9 to 11 year old Gohan's height. Conclusion: Pan is 9.

2) Perfect Files, in spite of being rather amusing, is actually imperfect, as it has some evident mistakes like "761 A.D. Goku, Piccolo, Kuririn and Gohan battle Garlic Junior and send him into his Dead Zone.". We all know this is not possible as the movies storylines are supposed to be some kind of parallel to the original and almost only hypothetical scenarios "as if...". Why would Goku be surprised with Gohan's emerging power during the fight with Raditz, then?
Also according to these Files, Bra is one year younger than Pan!... *MEGA

First, the item of Goku and the others fighting Garlic Jr. was included in the Daizenshuu. Reason? Garlic Jr. Saga. Toei counts Movie 1 (despite it's inconsistancies with the series) as part of the anime. That fact is undeniable. There for, this complaint is moot. Second. No. The Perfect Files state that Bra is a year *older* than Pan. It is the Daizenshuu that has her as a year younger (and is what I go by).

Not to mention the dubs (which have, indeed, wrong content in many occasions, no doubt. But not allways! ) and many other sources of information...
Therefore, for me it's ten years and that's it. Period.
Not even Toriyama or whoever be it could convince other way!

Pan is 9/10 in GT. Seriously. Even in DB the the teen women (Bulma from first appearance and Chi-Chi at 23rd Budokai) were taller and more developed than Pan ever was in GT. Face facts, GT is 5 years after Z.

It's far more likely 10 years post Z that GT starts. If it were 5 years, (Bura being she'd be -9- when those guys hit on her (with the car, remember, Veggie) Otherwise she could be 14, much more easily mistaken for an adult. (Believe me, I'm a girl, I was hooted at when I was 14 <_<) Adding that to her physical maturity means it's more likely that she's 14 than 8....

Bra would have been 8 when they hit on her (or by your lines, 13) and neither one adds up. The fact of the matter is, Toei didn't get a *single* character design right in GT. None of the old cast and none of the new(ish) cast. There's far more than a year between Pan and Bra by appearances, Bra looks at least 3 years older, not a year younger like she should be.

Toei... didn't bother to stay consistant with anything. That's really all there is to it. You just have to accept that it was 5 years after Z and accept the problems. No matter when you say it happened it still wont add up anyway.

[Jerseymilk]

I agree with Nekoni. GT shall take 1&1/2 - 2 years to occur.
It starts 10 years after Z. I don't think arguments like "Pan looks younger than 14" or the "dogmatic Perfect Files says" are much valid.

It doesn't matter if you don't agree with the Perfect Files. They're as close to official as we'll ever get seeing as they were made with Toriyama's full approval. And you can't say "not even Toriyama" would convince you otherwise. He's the creator of the series. Of that universe and those characters and their history. Whatever he says, goes, even if it may not make sense.

Not to mention the dubs (which have, indeed, wrong content in many occasions, no doubt. But not allways! ) and many other sources of information...

Bringing up the dub just isn't a good idea as an extra support to your opinion. As you even say yourself, the dubs have had incorrect content many times. Plus, the original Japanese is still the one that was made with Toriyama's consent and simultaneously while he made the manga. At the end of the day, it will always be the more valid source.

As to your statement of "many other sources of information", I'd like to see these. I'm interested in seeing just how concrete they are.

[Chaos Saiyajin]

Not to mention the dubs (which have, indeed, wrong content in many occasions, no doubt. But not allways! ) and many other sources of information...



Therefore, for me it's ten years and that's it. Period.
Not even Toriyama or whoever be it could convince other way!

You're using dubs as proof? Not a good thing. If you want good, almost perfect information about Dragonball/Z/GT, you don't turn to a dub that's fucked up on many occasions. You go to the source: either the manga, original Japanese version of the anime, or the Daizenshuu/Perfect Files.

[HP]

OK, guys. If someone tells me that the in the original Japanese anime series the narrator states "5 years", I will shut up.

[Nekoni]

Of course ladies and gents, lets not forget two, little minor details.

Detail one: VIDEL was short. The ladies don't come at standard heights. (genetics)

Detail two: Growth spurts. Kids down grow up steadily, they grow in spurts.

Dub... *shudder* definately not something to go by. I'll never forgive 'em for stupifying Bulma *sniff*

[Jerseymilk]

OK, guys. If someone tells me that the in the original Japanese anime series the narrator states "5 years", I will shut up.

Show me the "many other sources of information" first.

[HP]

I mean, magazines and stuff. Not fan-mags. Remember, I'm not from NA, we got things here you don't get there and vice-versa.
GT was on in 1999. I can't get stuff so old (and was repeated last year)..
I'm not saying these are generally more credilbe than official releases. Of course not. Just those official releases may contain mistakes, as well. This is one. No way 5 yeras had passed from Z.
Besides, I think it was you who said in another topic a while ago that the 5 years thing was mentioned not even on the JAP series.

[Xyex]

I mean, magazines and stuff. Not fan-mags. Remember, I'm not from NA, we got things here you don't get there and vice-versa.
GT was on in 1999. I can't get stuff so old (and was repeated last year)..
I'm not saying these are generally more credilbe than official releases. Of course not. Just those official releases may contain mistakes, as well. This is one. No way 5 yeras had passed from Z.
Besides, I think it was you who said in another topic a while ago that the 5 years thing was mentioned not even on the JAP series.

IIRC, the Japanese version doesn't mention ANY passage of time having occured. Thus the only given time is listed in the Perfect Files as 5 years. You can point to any magazine you want but the fact stands, Toei offically made it 5 years. No ammount of denying it will change that.

[Rocketman]

There's far more than a year between Pan and Bra by appearances, Bra looks at least 3 years older, not a year younger like she should be.

I have the solution!

Hyperbolic Time Chamber.

[Jerseymilk]

HP: But what magazines are these? And as I said, even if the Perfect Files and Daizenshuus may contain mistakes, they're as close to official sources as we'll get. They were approved by Toriyama himself. The man approved of the people that worked on it and what they did with them. I realize that Toriyama has been shown to not always have the greatest memory, but at the time those were made, he was still working on the series so his memory would have been better.

As for whether or not the original language version has the narrator say it's been five years or not I can't remember myself since the last time I watched GT was about 3 years ago. But that doesn't negate my point about going with the dub as proof. Actually, the fact that the Japanese version may not actually state it in the anime itself and then the dub goes and says ten years, really shows the dub is just tossing unsubstantiated facts into their version.