Why can Goten go SSJ so early?

Infinity's End · Post by **Infinity's End** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:02 pm

Why can Goten go SSJ so early?

I'm sure this question has been asked before, but I always though Goten was able to go SSJ so young in life and with such little effort because Goku had sex with Chichi while he was an SSJ... But then again, young Trunks goes SSJ really early too, to Vegeta's bewilderment. Is it because Vegeta was able to reach SSJ status before doing Bulma? Your thoughts?

MisterFlashdude · Post by **MisterFlashdude** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:11 pm

Unfortunately, that's pretty much what everyone assumes. Apparently, and these aren't my theories, the stronger you are when you have a child in DBZ... the stronger the child!

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:23 pm

Yeah, we all assume there inherited it. Seems like the most logical explanation.

I don't think anybody would say Goten and Trunks went through anything like Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta did to get there.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:23 pm

Vegeta couldn't have reached SSj before concieving Trunks, so that 'SSj gene' theory goes right out the window.

The best explanation is Goku and Vegeta were really strong when they concieved their sons, so their sons were very strong when they were born. And being very strong they transformed into SSj more easily.

Toriyama himself was asked the question, and came up with "genetics or something" to cover his ass

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:25 pm

desirecampbell wrote:Vegeta couldn't have reached SSj before concieving Trunks, so that 'SSj gene' theory goes right out the window.

Shh. He took a conjugal visit back to Earth.

Or so I will assume.

MisterFlashdude · Post by **MisterFlashdude** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:29 pm

Oh! I got it! Atleast... a possible explanation as to the difference between Goku (being a SSJ) and Vegeta (not being a SSJ) and the similar level of difficulty Trunks and Goten had transforming, pretty much, at the same time.

This goes with the assumption that the 'inherited power' theory is true...

Goten was only trained like... in the back yard by Chichi. While Trunks was with VEGETA training in a high-tech gravity chamber! And even so, Goten was still a year younger! So, it kind of makes sense.

...Oh, my. I seem to have added a bit of logic to the theory I hate so much. Oh well.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:43 pm

MisterFlashdude wrote:Oh! I got it! Atleast... a possible explanation as to the difference between Goku (being a SSJ) and Vegeta (not being a SSJ) and the similar level of difficulty Trunks and Goten had transforming, pretty much, at the same time.

This goes with the assumption that the 'inherited power' theory is true...

Goten was only trained like... in the back yard by Chichi. While Trunks was was VEGETA training in a high-tech gravity chamber! And even so, Goten was still a year younger! So, it kind of makes sense.

...Oh, my. I seem to have added a bit of logic to the theory I hate so much. Oh well.

Frankly, I doubt the achievement of SSj has anything to do with it. Goku was just stronger than Vegeta at the times of conception.

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Fri May 05, 2006 11:11 pm

Why?

Vegeta answered that very question for us. Apparently there was a Super Saiyan Bargain Sale.

tarsonis · Post by **tarsonis** » Fri May 05, 2006 11:18 pm

Even with Goku already going SSJ before Goten was born, there would still need to be some moment of anger to trigger the SSJ form for the first time right?

HP · Post by HP » Fri May 05, 2006 11:32 pm

For me it's quite clear that human-saiyan hybrids (Gohan, Goten, Bra...) are potentially either very strong (Gohan, for exmpl) or just mildly strong/weak (Pan, for exmpl). For this new race, they will live shorter than a 100% Saiyan, but probably longer than a Human, so that applies of course to those who "are born very strong" and for that reason, they get to increase their Ki very rapidly, i.e. within few years. That's why Trunks, Goku and Gohan are so precocious.
It just happens Goten and Trunks are more precocious than Gohan. In my understanding, due to the same genetic reasons as one out of two brothers may be taller and stonger. It's just the randomness of Nature.

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Fri May 05, 2006 11:44 pm

HP wrote:For me it's quite clear that human-saiyan hybrids (Gohan, Goten, Bra...) are potentially either very strong (Gohan, for exmpl) or just mildly strong/weak (Pan, for exmpl). For this new race, they will live shorter than a 100% Saiyan, but probably longer than a Human, so that applies of course to those who "are born very strong" and for that reason, they get to increase their Ki very rapidly, i.e. within few years. That's why Trunks, Goku and Gohan are so precocious.

Regarding Gohan and Pan..remember that Gohan's half Saiyan. Pan's got more human blood in her than Saiyan.

SHHH! IGNORE GOKU JR AND VEGETA JR! >_____>

MisterFlashdude · Post by **MisterFlashdude** » Fri May 05, 2006 11:55 pm

tarsonis wrote:Even with Goku already going SSJ before Goten was born, there would still need to be some moment of anger to trigger the SSJ form for the first time right?

Come to think of it... they never really show Trunks turning SSJ, do they? Atleast, the time they first showed it in the gravity room seemed to me like he'd transformed a few times before. I'm not sure if the time they showed Goten transforming while fighting Chichi was his first transformation... but if it was, he atleast seemed a little frustrated?

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Sat May 06, 2006 1:24 am

Vegeta couldn't have reached SSj before concieving Trunks, so that 'SSj gene' theory goes right out the window.

Says who? We know he left for space to train. We, however, do not know when he returned. We know that he obviously came back in time to create Trunks. We can also gather, based on the given information, that he left only a few months, at the most, after Trunks' appearance. Also, along with The Lecherous Muten Roshi's idea, there's nothing to say he didn't return to Earth several times during his training for supplies or what-not.

Frankly, I doubt the achievement of SSj has anything to do with it. Goku was just stronger than Vegeta at the times of conception.

And I doubt strength alone has anything to do with it. There is always some trigger beyond pure strength. For Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta it was an emotional one. For Goten and Trunks it was their father's ability to transform.

Even with Goku already going SSJ before Goten was born, there would still need to be some moment of anger to trigger the SSJ form for the first time right?

Nope. If you're born possessing the inate skill to transform there's no need for the emotional trigger. Your transformational ability is akin to that of others with the power to transform. And we know that, after ataining the form, a Saiya-jin can change at will.

Come to think of it... they never really show Trunks turning SSJ, do they? Atleast, the time they first showed it in the gravity room seemed to me like he'd transformed a few times before. I'm not sure if the time they showed Goten transforming while fighting Chichi was his first transformation... but if it was, he atleast seemed a little frustrated?

Goten's flash-back is in refrence to Chi-Chi calling him a monster or something along those lines. It is not reffering to his first transformation as he tells Gohan he's been able to do it as long as he can remember.

And it's shown rather clearly that Trunks can just go 'poof' into SSJ as easily as the adults. So that was obviously not his first transformation either. Just the first time anyone other than Goten saw it.

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Sat May 06, 2006 8:54 am

Let's not forget, Vegeta could have easily come and gone after becoming a Super Saiyan for not only the supplies but to also work on perfecting his transformation. Goku himself said he was unable to turn into a Super Saiyan at will at first, but managed to get it to happen.

It'd be best assumed the same would occur with Vegeta. Pretty sure with how badly he was beaten up from his first transformation, he'd have headed back to Earth to rest up.

_Jrinu_ · Post by **_Jrinu_** » Sat May 06, 2006 2:12 pm

Well here's something to think about, it ties in with the genetics theory but it doesn't necessarily have to do with the father's being SSJ.

When Gohan was born he was incredibly strong right?

He had all the strength without formal training.

By the time Goten and Trunks were concieved, Goku and Vegeta's power had increased huge amounts.

Goten and Trunks had to have been born with a significant amount of power. Say, enough to go SSJ

Steven Perry · Post by **Steven Perry** » Sun May 07, 2006 2:41 pm

HP wrote:...brothers may be taller and stronger. It's just the randomness of Nature.

And there you have it! "The randomness of nature." You see, the diseases people have today are sometimes caused by inheritance, such as... Err... Sickle cell anaemia. There's a 1/4 chance that you'll inherit the sickle cell alleles (two are needed), so the same must apply for the "Super- Saiyan" gene. Wait a second... If Goku has that viral heart disease dormant within him, doesn't that mean Gohan and Goten are susceptible?

I bet that virus comes from his Dad... Ha! He would've died even if Frieza didn't obliterate him.

some guy wrote:Vegeta couldn't have reached SSj before conceiving Trunks, so that 'SSj gene' theory goes right out the window.

Maybe, Vegeta transformed into a Super- Saiyan as he was... Y'know... In bed with Bulma.

It takes an overwhelming flow of emotions to transform (as it did with Goku), so maybe Vegeta had the experience of a lifetime lovin' Bulma. Vegeta's new to this "loving" emotion, obviously. After the ordeal, he lost his ability to transform, and went off into space. Does that sound okay?

Mr. Announcer · Post by **Mr. Announcer** » Sun May 07, 2006 3:36 pm

Agh, now I'm just getting grossed out. Anyway, since DBZ doesn't follow the rules of genetics I guess you could just say that they were stronger because their fathers were stronger when they were concieved. I kinda doubt that Vegeta hadachieved ssj at the time but considering that Trunks is both older and more severely trained I guess its logical that he would be stronger than Goten. In the end I don't really think there was any real reason for it except to give them a role as fighters and not have them be left in the dust.

DBZ MAN · Post by **DBZ MAN** » Sun May 07, 2006 4:44 pm

Yeah but thats the boring explanation

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » Sun May 07, 2006 7:08 pm

This brings back memories of that DBZ H-Doujinshi that took place in the Cell Saga, "The night before the tournament".

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Sun May 07, 2006 7:19 pm

Castor Troy wrote:This brings back memories of that DBZ H-Doujinshi that took place in the Cell Saga, "The night before the tournament".

Oh my, who didn't see that?

I admit I wasn't as disturbed by that as other doujinshi (TrunksXPan *shudder*) because it actually explained where Goten came from... and his Super Saiyajin traits.