Ki vs Chi

Bardock the Mexican · Post by **Bardock the Mexican** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:53 am

This is going to sound very corny. I know this may not seem like a big deal for a lot of you, but I can't seem to make up my mind about this. I don't know if the energy used in the DB and DBZ series is chi or ki. I mean there is one thing that has me confused. It's the use of chi by Viz and how they only started using 'chi' after we saw the kikohou attack used by Tenshinhan. So in a way they kind of made us used to hearing it and made it standard for the whole series. Does anyone else know why this could be?

Post by **desirecampbell** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:01 pm

I'd suspect it's because Viz is weird with their translations in Dragonball. I mean, "Djinn"?

I'm pretty sure "chi" is just the Chinese pronunciation of the same character.

Ash · Post by **Ash** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:04 pm

Chi (or Qi in Pinyin) is the Chinese Mandarin pronouncation of the kanji 気, while ki is the Japanese pronouncation.

I suspect Viz chose Chi/Qi because it's more known than ki as a technical term.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:14 pm

desirecampbell wrote:I'd suspect it's because Viz is weird with their translations in Dragonball. I mean, "Djinn"?

But "djinn" is a valid translation. Really, guys. ^^;;

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:19 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:
desirecampbell wrote:I'd suspect it's because Viz is weird with their translations in Dragonball. I mean, "Djinn"?
But "djinn" is a valid translation. Really, guys. ^^;;

Yet Buu isn't a genie, he just dresses similar to one, and that's just his first (and "Pure Evil") form. He isn't inclined to grant wishes and in fact never does so, just obeyed Babaidi so as not to get sealed up and once helped pit Goku with Uub as a favor. You're really saying "Djinn" is a proper translation, and should be considered valid just because Viz came up with it? I dunno.

Ash · Post by **Ash** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:49 pm

He isn't inclined to grant wishes

Neither is a Djinn. Just because our favourite blue Genie from Alladin does, doesn't mean it's a accurate description of a Djinn.

I think it was established in an old thread Djinn is a pretty accurate translation for a majin.

http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.p ... ght=#47886

Post by **desirecampbell** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:57 pm

Ash wrote:I think it was established in an old thread Djinn is a pretty accurate translation for a majin.

And 'OverMan' is a valid translation of Superman, but he's got that "S"...

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:54 pm

desirecampbell wrote:And 'OverMan' is a valid translation of Superman, but he's got that "S"...

Who said that was the letter "M"? Is Babidi a "Majin"?

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:56 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:
desirecampbell wrote:And 'OverMan' is a valid translation of Superman, but he's got that "S"...
Who said that was the letter "M"? Is Babidi a "Majin"?

Maybe it stands for Madoshi?

KinoFourpaws · Post by **KinoFourpaws** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:44 pm

Deus ex Machina wrote:
Olivier Hague wrote:
desirecampbell wrote:And 'OverMan' is a valid translation of Superman, but he's got that "S"...
Who said that was the letter "M"? Is Babidi a "Majin"?
Maybe it stands for Madoshi?

What does "Madoshi" mean? o__O;

Li'l Lemmy · Post by **Li'l Lemmy** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:57 pm

KinoFourpaws wrote:What does "Madoshi" mean? o__O;

FUNimation translates this to "wizard," though I'm not sure how much credit I'd give the dub in this particular circumstance.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:58 pm

KinoFourpaws wrote:
Deus ex Machina wrote:
Olivier Hague wrote: Who said that was the letter "M"? Is Babidi a "Majin"?
Maybe it stands for Madoshi?
What does "Madoshi" mean? o__O;

Roughly 'wizard' or 'warlock'. Bibidi and Babidi were referred to as "modoshi".

Mystic Jack · Post by **Mystic Jack** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:48 am

I think I'll stick with ki.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:18 am

Deus ex Machina wrote:Maybe it stands for Madoshi?

Maybe, but that would be the exact same "M" symbol for two entirely different words, then...
Also, I wouldn't expect most Western fans to know about the Japanese word "madôshi", and yet I don't see them wondering why Babidi had this symbol on him... So if they didn't know about the word "majin" and only knew Boo as a "djinn", would they really have a problem with the symbol?

I don't think it was either stated what the "M" meant, and I don't believe it was ever stated that it was indeed an "M".
The way I see it, it could very well simply be Bibidi/Babidi's "crest", and thus not necessarily a good reason to keep the Japanese word "majin" in a translation.

Conan the SSJ wrote:You're really saying "Djinn" is a proper translation, and should be considered valid just because Viz came up with it?

No, not because of that at all. Because lots of people have translated "djinn"/"genie" into "majin", in Japanese. Quite often, in non-"Dragon Ball" contexts, the Japanese word "majin" does indeed stand for "djinn"/"genie".
If you add in the fact that there are several visual cues in the manga about a "djinn"/"genie" inspiration, I think that makes for a good argument toward the use of "djinn".

Why keep a Japanese word for something that doesn't appear to be Japanese at all in the first place? If Boo had some kanji or something on his clothes on him, that would be an argument, but...
The only reasons I'd see would be:
1) The "M". Thing is, it may not stand for "Majin", and it may not even be an "M", for all we know.
2) His name is generally spelled "Majin-Boo" in alphabet on Japanese official merchandise.

Again, I don't really know if I'd keep or translate "majin" (I think I'd probably keep it, but then again, I'm anal about official spellings). It's just that, as a translator myself, it pains me to see people panning Viz over this. It just seems unfair to me. I've seen a lot of fucked-up translation "choices", and this certainly isn't one of them.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:10 am

Olivier Hague wrote:Again, I don't really know if I'd keep or translate "majin" (I think I'd probably keep it, but then again, I'm anal about official spellings). It's just that, as a translator myself, it pains me to see people panning Viz over this. It just seems unfair to me. I've seen a lot of fucked-up translation "choices", and this certainly isn't one of them.

Exactly. It's not a bad translation. It's just that it seems unnecessary. To me it feels like calling Kuririn "Chestnut monk". It's not wrong, it's just unnecessary.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:22 am

desirecampbell wrote:It's not a bad translation. It's just that it seems unnecessary. To me it feels like calling Kuririn "Chestnut monk". It's not wrong, it's just unnecessary.

(calling him "Chestnut monk" isn't wrong? ^^;)

Er... That's quite different. "Kulilin" is a name, and "majin" is a Japanese word. You can't blame a translator for translating, unless you have a very good reason to keep the original word as is.
That's a bit like "ôzaru". Does it make sense to use that Japanese term instead of its translation? Same thing for the fansubs that keep stuff like "baka" and such. Now that's what I'd call "unnecessary".

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:15 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:
desirecampbell wrote:It's not a bad translation. It's just that it seems unnecessary. To me it feels like calling Kuririn "Chestnut monk". It's not wrong, it's just unnecessary.
(calling him "Chestnut monk" isn't wrong? ^^;)

Er... That's quite different. "Kulilin" is a name, and "majin" is a Japanese word. You can't blame a translator for translating, unless you have a very good reason to keep the original word as is.
That's a bit like "ôzaru". Does it make sense to use that Japanese term instead of its translation? Same thing for the fansubs that keep stuff like "baka" and such. Now that's what I'd call "unnecessary".

True, though some still get on companies for not doing like fansubs. Know a few guys who shake their fists at Viz for translating Shinigami as "Soul Reaper", which sounds like a cooler name to me.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:23 pm

Super Sonic wrote:True, though some still get on companies for not doing like fansubs. Know a few guys who shake their fists at Viz for translating Shinigami as "Soul Reaper", which sounds like a cooler name to me.

I always thought 'Soul Reaper' was a bit extravagant. What ever happened to simply 'Death God'? sigh

Pedro The Hutt · Post by **Pedro The Hutt** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:09 pm

I see no issues with keeping japanese terms in an english version. o: I mean, everywhere across the bloody globe we keep on using english terms in our native tongues (in my case flemish dutch). So it certainly doesn't hurt to do it the other way for a change. XD

Post by **desirecampbell** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:28 am

Pedro The Hutt wrote:I see no issues with keeping japanese terms in an english version. o: I mean, everywhere across the bloody globe we keep on using english terms in our native tongues (in my case flemish dutch). So it certainly doesn't hurt to do it the other way for a change. XD

That's a good point. There are a lot of terms that don't really need to be translated. Like, 'Shinigami' - how hard would it be to explain that it means death god?

DB centric, I think Jinzoningen should've been kept. It's not a hard word to keep in, and you really only need two or three lines to explain what it means. And then there's no confusion over "Android" or "Cyborg" or "Robot".