Is Extreme Anger Needed For SSJ 2?

Jamstar · Post by **Jamstar** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:05 pm

Does anyone know if Goku and Vegeta had to become very angry before becoming SSJ 2 just like SSJ? I know Gohan did as eevryone knows, before he fought Cell.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:31 pm

There's serious question as to whether 'extreme anger' is needed for any of the Super Saiyan levels.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:44 pm

desirecampbell wrote:There's serious question as to whether 'extreme anger' is needed for any of the Super Saiyan levels.

It is? O_o;

-Corey

TheJoo87 · Post by **TheJoo87** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:38 pm

MajinVejitaXV wrote:
desirecampbell wrote:There's serious question as to whether 'extreme anger' is needed for any of the Super Saiyan levels.
It is? O_o;

-Corey

I think when he says that, he's refering to Goten and Chibi Trunks since their transformations weren't excatly epic or caused by any real anger problems, well at least Goten's wasn't, and I'm willing to bet Trunks wasn't either.

As for the original post I believe all three forms can be attained by two ways...
1.The user must have at least the minimum amount of Ki required in order to transform by use of extreme anger, as seen with Goku against Freeza.
2.The user just trains his or her body to the point where they have so much strength it just happens, as seen with Goten against Chichi.

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:43 pm

For all the canon transformations that were to the first SSj level, yes, rage is needed. It's been stated and shown that it is necessary. For SSj2...? It was necessary for Gohan at the Cell Game, but, IMHO, I lean towards the theory that only training is needed to reach higher levels of the SSj state.

gohanku · Post by **gohanku** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:44 am

TheJoo got a point, it looks more like the Super Saiyan levels can be reached by enough power but if you don't, the extreme anger is the boost you need to reach it.

PrincessVegeta · Post by **PrincessVegeta** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:54 am

They possibly would have to since it's the way Gohan did.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:21 pm

gohanku wrote:TheJoo got a point, it looks more like the Super Saiyan levels can be reached by enough power but if you don't, the extreme anger is the boost you need to reach it.

Goku
SSj1 - Anger (manga)
SSj2 - not shown
SSj3 - not shown

Gohan
SSj1 - Anger (manga)
SSj2 - Anger (manga)

Future Gohan
SSj1 - not shown

Goten
SSj1 - Slightly upset (anime only)

Vegeta
SSj1 - Anger (anime only)
SSj2 - not shown

Trunks
SSj1 - not shown

Future Trunks
SSj1 - Anger (anime only)

We only see four (six including filler) of the eleven initial transformations, and one of them isn't really very 'angry'. That's not to say that the transformations we don't see didn't have a 'rage' trigger, it's just that we don't know if they did or not.

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:13 pm

desirecampbell wrote:Goten
SSj1 - Slightly upset (manga)

Is that supposed to say anime, instead of manga? Because Goten explained in the manga to Gohan that he had forgotten how long ago it was when he first turned into a SSj, but that he showed Chi-Chi once, and she ended up getting mad at him because he looked like a punk.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:40 pm

Tyro wrote:
desirecampbell wrote:Goten
SSj1 - Slightly upset (manga)
Is that supposed to say anime, instead of manga? Because Goten explained in the manga to Gohan that he had forgotten how long ago it was when he first turned into a SSj, but that he showed Chi-Chi once, and she ended up getting mad at him because he looked like a punk.

It wasn't explicitly shown in the manga? I was sure it was... fixing now.

ssgOverlord · Post by **ssgOverlord** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:23 pm

Anger? Who needs anger? It's like a Super Saiyan bargain sale!

But I have to ask: Could Goten or Trunks (alone) beat Freeza?

Post by **desirecampbell** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:34 pm

ssgOverlord wrote:Anger? Who needs anger? It's like a Super Saiyan bargain sale!

But I have to ask: Could Goten or Trunks (alone) beat Freeza?

Pre-RoSaT training, I'd think "not". After that... "probably".

Terra-jin · Post by **Terra-jin** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:43 am

It is stated by Goku that SSj gets its start from anger (during his training with Gohan in the RoSaT). Whether it's like this for SSj 2 is not stated.

The process to become an SSj 2 is first to attain the SSj 1 as the natural state, and then you - how do I put this - become a Super Saiyan while already Super Saiyan. This would mean that the SSj 2 is in essence the same transformation - hence anger is needed. The effects of the SSj 2 transformation are more severe - that is, the Saiyan becomes much more evil than he would with SSj 1. The energy consumption is likely increased, as well.

In Goku and Vegeta's case, it appeared that they didn't undergo an extreme emotion or turn significantly more evil. It seems to contradict my theory above, but it could also be that they managed to become natural SSj 2's (eliminating the feeling of no composure and being more evil).

About Goten and Trunks: it is my opinion that they were born as natural Super Saiyans since their fathers had achieved that state before they were conceived. In this light, they would still need extreme anger to attain SSj 2, but the SSj 1 was no problem for them. If SSj 2's have children, they would likely be born as natural SSj 2's.

Another thing, I like the idea that the Super Saiyan can also become from extreme euphoria. The SSj of anger becomes more selfish and sadistic (seen in Goku vs. Freeza, Vegeta vs. AH19 and Gohan vs. Cell), so the SSj from euphoria would become "more good". It never happened like this in DB, but I still like the idea.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:44 pm

Gohan's probably the only one who needed it since he gets a huge burst of anger. For Goku and Vegeta it probably just came to them one day, like with USSJ.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:14 pm

I would say no...I'm sure Gohan could have transformed into a SSJ2 any time he liked after coming out of the room of time and spirit. He was just young and inexperienced (relatively speaking on the latter). If Goku had been just as strong as Gohan I would bet he would be able to transform without any kind of life-shattering revelation or anger fit.

tarsonis · Post by **tarsonis** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:48 am

Wasn't Goten's first transformation to SSJ at some point before we were explicitly shown? Given we don't know the true details, anger could have been involved in some way.

Kanzenshuu

Is Extreme Anger Needed For SSJ 2?

Is Extreme Anger Needed For SSJ 2?

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