Episode #0077 (13 May 2007)

[VegettoEX]

Episode #0077 (download MP3)
32:45; 64 kbps, mono; 15.0 MB

Episode #0077! VegettoEX, Meri, Julian, and Jeff discuss the ending to DBZ Movie 10... Goku: There or Not? We analyze the placement of the story, canon elements, and general fan theories to try and get to the bottom of what actually occurs in this particular scene. May's releases and your e-mails round out the episode! Referenced sites:

• French Movie Boxset Discussion @ Daizenshuu EX
• DBZ Season 2 "Remastered" DVD Set @ Amazon
• DBZ Spanish DVD Vol. 1 @ RightStuf
• DBZ Spanish DVD Vol. 2 @ RightStuf

Go ahead and grab it. Big thanks to godofchaos for hosting the splendid *seventy-seven* episodes, now.

Sorry for the slight delay. Despite having the entire thing recorded and edited by the time Friday evening turned into Saturday morning, we were out the entire rest of the weekend, and then we just couldn't coordinate getting it online. But here it is!

The topic is a discussion I've always wanted to have, and like you'll hear in the episode, I don't think we actually managed to come to a formal conclusion... but that's where you all come in! What do you think really happened?



w0rd.

[Mr.Piccolo]

You said March instead of May sir. Looking forward to it either way.

[desirecampbell]

Just listening now - but thought I'd throw a link to the 'u tub' video of the Lucky Star closing in question (not that it really shows anything).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKRg_yqlJbc


[[I'll edit this later]]

[DaemonCorps]

Well, upon reading the episode's description, I was pretty much prepared to be disappointed listening to this episode (I'm not really into trying to make the movies make sense), but other stuff you mentioned makes this episode worth listening through again. For example, the whole VA of Misa badly singing Head Cha-La. I actually kinda liked it when she sang her creepy little pro-Kira songs as Misa, so I was surprised that she could intentionally sound so... bad.

Also, I'll admit that I pre-ordered the season two set just because well... the Namek episodes were my favorite from the series, and (like you said) I've gotta fill my wholes in the series legally. That whole group shiver about people actually buying the set was funny, though.

What I found most interesting about this episode was the mini discussion about Toriyama's editors complaining about the characters. You should definitely make that a topic for a future episode. And Mike's impersination of Toriyama's editor saying that a fat dude and an old guy are lame villains was a nice touch .

As always, keep up the good work (and I'm crossing my fingers for having Jeff join the forums).

[gambitt]

... and this icon isn't working, darnit!

[Tanooki Kuribo]

See I just like to think this happened super fast, but you see it as if its happening in real time. Almost as if Goku see's his kids in trouble, rushes down the Earth so fast no one notices except Gohan and Goten because there Saiyans as well and can see people move that fast...

After Goku blast the shit outta Broly he just instantaneously goes right back to heaven.... or something.

I know this is ridiculous but, its just me being a fanboy.

[Leyio]

Well, maybe Goten did ask the wish and Goku came for like, 10 minutes to kick Broly's ass, and then he lived

Or maybe he did what he did in the Bojack movie (go back to Earth for some minutes to help his sons)

But I have a question about this. Is this movie canon? Because I can't find a timeline when this happens...

[Kaboom]

But I have a question about this. Is this movie canon? Because I can't find a timeline when this happens...

On it's own, yes it could take place during the training for the Buu-era Budokai. However, it depends on movie 8 being canon (what with Broli and all), which it isn't.

[Leyio]

Well, I would say it's sometime before the Buu's saga Budokai, what with Gohan not being Ultimate and Goten and Trunks still don't know the Fusion.

But Videl didn't knew of the Dragonballs at that time, I believe.

[Kirbopher]

Heh, this was a cool little one. I look forward to the episode about what happened with the characters and designs for the Androids/Cell arc.

My guess is that is was partially a rehash of the final part of the Cell Game fight. Goku came down in spirit form to boost the confidence level of his two sons, just as he did with Gohan back during the previous fight. Maybe something like that.

[Drabaz]

Holy Crap. I definitely did not know about the whole Android/Cell thing. You have to discuss more on that matter.

I would say that Shenlong brought Goku's soul back, but Shenlong supplied the physical feature of Goku to help motivate the boys. Which would explain Goku not having his Halo. Goku couldn't have been a hallucination of Gohan and Gotens memory because Goten has never seen Goku in person. So he has no memory of his father except for maybe pictures. But I think Shenlongs main purpose of bringing Goku's soul back was to motivate his sons to bring out all their power.

Ugh, geeze. Trying to explain this is getting me confused all over again. How about we just say that since Shenlong can't make the same wish twice, he made the wish "Bring Goku back to life until Broly is defeated." Instead of just "Bring Goku back to life."

[Leyio]

Actually, I think Goten said "I wish Dad was here", which would mean he would have wanted Goku to be there so he could help the kick Broly's ass

[Lavender Saiyan]

OK, before I go into my opinions about Movie 10. I just want to mention, the question was asked on the Podcast if Piccolo got a Re-Dub in the Capt. Ginyu Saga. The answer is no because I don't recall Piccolo having one line. There is this one scene of him on King Kai's planet, but he's silent.

Now on to Movie 10. It's my belief that Shenron is kind of a Mind Reader in essence...maybe he didn't actually hear Goten's thoughts. But I'm all for him realizing that the earth is in Peril, and even Shenron knows that Movie Goku is "t3h sh1t & 9wn@g3". Either one of those works, but I'm more inclined to go with he realized there was danger. So he brought Goku back for a mere moment to clean up the mess. But the question still arises of, was he an actual "physical being" or just a spirit. He didn't have a halo, so was he back to life. But Goku almost appears to be a hologram yet with physical abilities. So I'm going to go with this theory, as weird as it may sound. Goku was a living spirit with physical capabilities.

I'm going to bring a Movie 9 comparison into this. In Movie 9, during the scene when Goku nails Bojack, Goku does NOT have a Halo, he clearly punches Bojack yet then dissappears and reappears in a gold light to catch Gohan. So it's my belief that when he came back to earth, he in essence was a living spirit again due to lack of Halo. But he had physical capabilities.

[tinlunlau]

Which in retrospect, is kinda like Patrick Swayze in "Ghost".

[Brakus]

An oddly "meh" episode this week as I go into my Tuesday Morning Review:

-- Why does the karaoke "Cha-La" remind me of Teen Girl Squad singing?

-- Interesting Movie 10 discussion, but my theory is that Goku appeared there in spirit, so I guess he was there, spiritually speaking.

-- Irony: Mike's rant about other "experts" mispronouncing things like "Naruto", "Utena", and "Naoko", and yet he still mispronounces Chris Sabat's last name. If I didn't already know that Mike was a DBZ guru, knowledgeable about all things Dragonball, *I* would have immediately turned off the podcast right there and then. Then again, perhaps that's what Mike knows, even though it's still not how you pronounce "Sabat". (This is NOT an attack; I'm just pointing out that in general Mike's not a dub fan.)

-- Oh, and I'm getting the Season 2 Box Set. Sorry, Mike. It has what I need - English dub with Japanese BGM (minus Cha-La Head Cha-La, but I can always switch during the OP), and at an unbeatable price in stores. Nice to hear that there was some adjustment/tweaking of some of the lines, and it'll be nice to hear Kyle Hebert's narrator voice on those.

-- Ah, con stuff. At least this year AnimeNEXT isn't on the same weekend as another local con of mine, Anime Mid-Atlantic (although AnimeNEXT is on the same weekend as MetroCon). I'll probably be at the other conventions you mentioned (except AnimeNEXT), but at least I don't stalk, unlike other certain editors who shall remain nameless.

Again, overall, a "meh" episode. Here's to a better episode next week.

[tinlunlau]

at least, from my experience of meeting Chris Sabat in person, i notice he tends to call himself "Chris (Sa-BAAT)". so that's one question answered there.

[fps_anth]

Right when I heard that version of Head Cha La, I thought to myself "Damn, that sounds like Haruhi Suzumiya!" I guess I was correct I'm obsessed with that show!

As for the whole Movie 10 thing, all my theories were taken. I though it had to do with Goten wishing him back, and Shenlong is...well...a pretty cool guy!

[Bardock the Mexican]

I am going to violate one of the rules of this forum by posting in Spanish. But Que la chingada es este mierda con esta puta cantando horrible?
In other news, it is indeed a major trip to see the Spanish DVDs being a link reference again after last one.

[Lavender Saiyan]

at least, from my experience of meeting Chris Sabat in person, i notice he tends to call himself "Chris (Sa-BAAT)". so that's one question answered there.

Is the way you listed it, the way EX pronounced it? Because if you look on the "Legacy of Goku 2: Behind The Game" on the Movie 8 DVD. He calls himself "Sa-bat". But "a" sounds are as in the word "Bat" or "Rat"

[VegettoEX]

Irony: Mike's rant about other "experts" mispronouncing things like "Naruto", "Utena", and "Naoko", and yet he still mispronounces Chris Sabat's last name. If I didn't already know that Mike was a DBZ guru, knowledgeable about all things Dragonball, *I* would have immediately turned off the podcast right there and then.

And I would be OK with that. You're not my target audience, and my target audience *also* has no idea how to pronounce his name. I've literally heard him pronounce his name himself no less than three different ways. So yeah. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong... and so is he.

In other news, it is indeed a major trip to see the Spanish DVDs being a link reference again after last one.

And I again don't see why you're surprised about this. For the last year and a half, we've been telling listeners of the show what's coming out that particular month, and giving them links where to buy them. This episode is no different. I can see that your responses to podcasts go back quite a few weeks, so it's not like you've never heard an episode, before .

---------------------------------------

Just putting this out there...

I'm finding it oddly interesting that certain people consistently don't care for episodes that deal *directly* with something *directly* in the show itself. It's always the same couple of people each time. It's totally cool; don't get me wrong. Something we strive for every week is to switch up the things we talk about so everyone gets to hear about things they want to hear about. For those of you that feel this way... what would you rather hear about? I notice that when we talk about fandom-related things, or merchandise, etc., you have vastly different feelings. Do you just not care about the actual show, itself, and are more intrigued by everything that surrounds it? I generally don't see too many negative opinions about *those* episodes, so I go off with thoughts of vocal minority vs. actual public opinions as a whole, etc.

I can't really call it one way or the other, because discussions I re-listen to while editing and find myself *totally* enthralled in always seem to go 50/50, while discussions that I feel are pretty status-quo seem to typically get an overwhelmingly-positive response.

I'd like to keep this thread pretty on-topic for this particular episode, however, so if you have any responses to anything in the above that's not directly related to #0077, feel free to drop me a PM or an e-mail. I promise I'll at least read it!