Cha-La and Zenkai Power in PAL

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:23 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIcBvToggcA
There´s your speed-up, just for those of you who didn´t know how bad it was. Actually, I think I might like ChaLa a little more.

Vegeta Jr · Post by **Vegeta Jr** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:59 pm

This is just the Japanese versions with English/Italian subtitles....

Post by **desirecampbell** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:37 pm

Vegeta Jr wrote:This is just the Japanese versions with English/Italian subtitles....

It's been sped up to PAL specifications, which I believe means a change from 24 fps (NTSC) to 25fps. Anyone else with better knowledge should probably comment.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:12 pm

desirecampbell wrote:
Vegeta Jr wrote:This is just the Japanese versions with English/Italian subtitles....
It's been sped up to PAL specifications, which I believe means a change from 24 fps (NTSC) to 25fps. Anyone else with better knowledge should probably comment.

Right.

Much of anime (especially older stuff) was done at 23.976 fps, which is the "film" frame-rate for NTSC. Television (being very broad, here) is 29.97 fps for NTSC. The math of getting film over to television works very nicely, since it's only 1.25/0.8 difference. This is where the process of "interlacing" comes in, which is essentially blending frames (or creating half-frames, really) to "trick" your eye into seeing "extra" frames.

But PAL doesn't work so nicely. Where-as the US and Japan use NTSC and we can convert nicely back and forth from each other, PAL is 25 fps. The math just doesn't work, and because of this, audio must be sped-up/slowed-down to match the appropriate half-assed math. In the case of NTSC to PAL, it must be sped up, so you'll typically hear stuff in a higher pitch when watching PAL conversions of NTSC material.

It's most shocking in dubs like "SUPER BATTLE IN THE WORLD" (from the UK, which is PAL) because the music has to be sped up to match the changes in frame-rates, but then the voices done over TOP of that sped-up BGM... aren't sped up.

Vegeta Jr · Post by **Vegeta Jr** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:32 pm

desirecampbell wrote:
Vegeta Jr wrote:This is just the Japanese versions with English/Italian subtitles....
It's been sped up to PAL specifications, which I believe means a change from 24 fps (NTSC) to 25fps. Anyone else with better knowledge should probably comment.

Sorry but that end bit wasn't needed at all, i know the difference between PAL and NTSC but the TC didn't exactly make that the focal point of the topic all he said was PAL. Now if he had said here is the difference then i would have got what he said, but he didn't and by him saying PAL all i thought about was different language.

Edit: Sorry but i re read your post and the last part of your sentence i now believe is aimed at yourself, i thought you meant about me sorry for the misunderstanding.

Super 17 · Post by **Super 17** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:45 pm

I don't get any of this. Why dosen't Europe just get the original frames or whatever it is like in North, South America, and most of Asia has?

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:22 am

Super 17 wrote:I don't get any of this. Why dosen't Europe just get the original frames or whatever it is like in North, South America, and most of Asia has?

Because PAL offers more vertical picture. Supposedly, it looks better - but with a movie like Star Wars (example), I know for a fact the sped-up audio would kill me. I'm not sure why it has to be that way.

Post by **TripleRach** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:36 pm

PAL exists because of differences in analog broadcast capabilities throughout the world back in the 1950's when television was still new technology. Europe and many other places couldn't use the NTSC standard, so an alternative was created.

Even though the technology probably exists now to convert the entire world to one analog standard like NTSC (which has its own flaws anyway), it would be an insane effort to do so. Millions of PAL televisions, DVD players, game consoles, etc. would suddenly need to be replaced. Plus, there's also the fact that digital broadcast standards will be replacing these old analog ones within the next decade anyway, so it just wouldn't be worth the expense.

Stan1992 · Post by **Stan1992** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:04 am

Ehy !
That's my video !

Yes, it's PAL !
I know it because is recorded from italians Dragonball Z DVD !

Ryu-Ken Bakuhatsu · Post by **Ryu-Ken Bakuhatsu** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:21 am

VegettoEX wrote: It's most shocking in dubs like "SUPER BATTLE IN THE WORLD" (from the UK, which is PAL).

That dub was simply released in the UK. It is not a British dub. I have done an post, linked below.

http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.p ... 624#166624

Post by **VegettoEX** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:46 am

VegettoEX wrote:from the UK

Ryu-Ken Bakuhatsu wrote:That dub was simply released in the UK. It is not a British dub.

There is not a single problem with what I just said, nor does anything you added relate to the topic at hand (music, NTSC/PAL conversions, etc.).

Ryu-Ken Bakuhatsu · Post by **Ryu-Ken Bakuhatsu** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:10 pm

VegettoEX wrote: There is not a single problem with what I just said, nor does anything you added relate to the topic at hand (music, NTSC/PAL conversions, etc.).

I apologies for being 'Off-topic'.

I'm going to redeem myself by having an On topic replie. This topic has answered the only thing that was unknown to me about the AB dubs-
The speeding up of CHA-LA HEAD CHA-LA for PAL. I knew that it was much faster then the usual verison.
I had assumed, when I first watched the DVD, that it was an alternative version of the song. I soon purchased the orignal Ocean dub soon after this only to hear the Correct version.
This made me wonder for the past several years what was the reasoning behind the AB-Groupe's speeding up of the song.
Now the questions have been answered for me thank you

worldmonsters · Post by **worldmonsters** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:14 am

Yes, I've noticed this with other shows too (especially when you listen to the soundtrack of that show) and I figured it was something like this, but now I know :p

On another note, damn those lyrics are messed up. Japanese cart- I mean songs are weird man.

On yet another note, there's something I've been wondering about for some time (it may require it's own topic, but I think it's related to this topic so I'll just ask anyway). When I watch Dragonball in japanese I always notice how the speech and soundeffects (and possibly the music) don't quite match up with the animation. At first I thought it was just something youtube (sorry, dubfan, tho I have nothing against the japanese version :p) made from it or it was accidentally not synced, but when I saw the clips it seems like the sound is one second behind the actual animation. Why is that?