Would you watch a new English dub?

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Super Sonic
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Post by Super Sonic » Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:51 pm

Azure wrote:I really don't think the voice actors are to blame, it's more the way the adaptation was handled. Right now I'd rather FUNi concentrate on doing One Piece properly.
That said I've threatened repeatedly to do DBZ dub from the ground up : getting fresh translations , casting voices based on the character rather than dub sound alike, script where Goku talks like a hick...:P
But on the other hand I'm old and tired, we have DBZ subbed, and if need be in Engrish ( all hail Speedy video). What else do we need? At least at this point it looks like we're going to get a release of the full series. Look at those poor Saint Seiya fans....
And look at the poor Sailor Moon fans too. At least their entire manga was released.

Also as an aspiring voice actor myself, I understand the part of making the character your own rather than trying to imitate what some people want.

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Post by Death-T » Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:47 am

No,I probably wouldn't watch a new English dub of Dragon Ball Z & GT.. Because I already accepted the Japanese version and wouldn't really care to see an improved English dub.But I do think the Dragon Ball dub was decent.

I do like a lot of dubs,as opposed to only watching anime subbed.I usually watch both. And I would have to highly disagree with people saying that "all dubs sound the same" now in days.I'll admit I have recognized a few voices here and there,and Chris Sabats voice has gotten pretty easy to recognize in several different shows... But as for most of the dubs I watch,I don't see this.And I can enjoy some dubs just as much as the Japanese version.Like Naruto,Bleach,FullMetal Alchemist,Eureka Seven and several others... 8) And I can admit voices haven't differed much at all between characters in a few dubs,but I think part of this is the fact that the characters are speaking English.Which is most of our natural languages,thus making it easier for you to recognize them at times...

I can watch the DBZ & GT dubed,and I do enjoy them sometimes... But,not like the Japanese version.I just haven't truley accepted many characters voices in the dub.
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Post by VegettoEX » Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:31 am

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Post by Super Sonic » Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:29 am

Will have to say, though I still wouldn't want a new dub, this thread gave me the image of Sandy Fox singing an English version of "Cha-La Head Cha-La".

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Post by TheJoo87 » Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:12 pm

A lot of people already said it and basically it's the same with me. I don't care about an english dub. Honestly I like watching it in Japanese, it gives it that extra sense of uniqueness that most other forms of entertainment don't have. Plus it sounds better. The only thing I can say was in anyway redeamable was the few voice actors that I liked. Namely Ian C., Brian Drummand, Ted Cole (My favorite), and Damien Clark. If they were in the redub then I would check it out.
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Post by tlsmith1963 » Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:31 pm

This is being posted after I listened to the podcast that featured this thread. I would be curious about a new dub, so I would probably check it out. The current dub has a strange sort of appeal to me, though. It's funny in a bizarre way (I can have a weird sense of humor). As for Vegetto's comment about all newer dubs being like the Cowboy Bebop dub, well I love Cowboy Bebop. And it has a fantastic dub. So you can't go wrong there. I do see how the CB voice-actors are in too many dubs, though. It can get tiresome to hear the same VAs all the time.

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Post by DaemonCorps » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:31 am

Considering that I didn't get into the series until the Great Saiyaman Saga, I guess that means I got into the series pretty late, and I have actually gotten used to everyone's dub voice. But knowing what I know now (in particular that a Japanese version existed first), I tend to watch the subbed version. There are also some times where I feel like hearing the dub voices, but, knowing that the script isn't completely accurate, I watch it with Simmons' subs. Those have been the two ways I've been watching the series whenever I felt like popping in a DVD from the series. If they were to do a completely revised and accurate dub, I would respect FUNi for doing such a thing... but they've re-done the series so many times that I don't think I'd enjoy say in comparison to the incredibly small amount of new fans out there (completely off topic, but I actually saw some kiddie at church playing with and SSJ3 Goku and a base level Vegeta action figure, so I guess the series is still raking in new fans).

Instead of just saying that I agree with what others have said and say that a new dub is for me, I'll try and add some new stuff as well. As much as I would love that the dub script stay as accurate to the original one (removing the season 3 stuff like Freeza's back scratcher line, etc) and that it have the original BGM as well, I think that would just ruin how I've been watching the series already.

To illustrate, I'll compare the series to how the Naruto dub is being treated now. It stays relatively close to the original script and even has minimal edits done to the episodes when they air on Cartoon Network (I'm still surprised that CN can get away with airing the show in the middle of the day while still keeping the PG rating). So, I figured I'd pick up the first box set that Viz released. However, something felt wrong when I started to watch the episodes. More specifically, was that I didn't even have a reason to watch the Japanese version anymore because the script is so accurate. Imagine that.

For the DBZ series, I actually enjoyed constantly switching back and forth between the languages and comparing and seeing how dramatically different the lines have been changed. Sure, there are some changes with the Naruto dub here and there (the occasional "damn" thrown in to match the character's flap), but not as much, so I didn't really enjoy myself the same way as when I was watching the two language tracks on FUNi's DBZ discs.

Instead of being incredibly accurate to the script as they can, I think I would like something more like what FUNi has done when dubbing the Yu Yu Hakusho script. When dubbing that series, they didn't keep every line the same, even though they could have in some instances, and instead, focused more on keeping the character's personality the same. Take YYH's main character, Yusuke, for example. While completely straying from the original script at times, they did so in order to try and better stick to the character's personality (sacrificing some lines in order to throw in some lines of sarcasm and wit instead).

For that series' dub in general, all the characters' personalities were shown in a much better way for the American audiences than the Japanese script could have done alone. There's also things like speaking styles that can't exactly be translated to English without slightly straying away from the original script. Rock Lee in Naruto, for example, is given the impression of speaking formally in the dub by not using contractions and instead, saying the whole term (ex: "will not" instead of "won't"). So, getting back to the YYH example, Yu Yu Hakusho's dub is actually enjoyed by many (even those who enjoy the Japanese version) not because it sticks to the original script 100%, but because it tries to get the best of both worlds by "American-izing" certain lines while still not going on a completely different script altogether. And if you're wondering, I watch my DVD copies of YYH the same way I do with DBZ-- alternating occasionally between both languages for fun and comparison, while enjoying both versions for what they are.

What was the point I was getting to? Right. I think if FUNi were to re-re-dub DBZ in the same "style" as they did YYH, then I'd definitely watch it. But if they strictly stuck to the script, then I'd probably do what Meri mentioned in the podcast and only watch certain "key episodes."

As for the voices, I'd be kinda upset if they were to do a completely new cast for a re-dub, but I wouldn't mind it, either. Seriously, neither version has *all* the voices I imagined for the show when say doing something like reading the manga. As I said, I like both versions for what they are.

And to respond to dubbed anime being incredibly distinguishable from other stuff (even by just hearing it), I do agree that it's partially because the dubbers may be trying too hard (or not enough). And since the overall tone isn't exactly a wacky cartoon, or some kind of live action show, then the only other possibility would be dubbed anime, which is a strange mix between the two and thus having actors confused as to how to approach it. It's kinda hard to explain, but from what others have said, you already get what I'm saying about it.

Now let's get back to how realistic this is. I highly doubt a completely new dub of the series is gonna happen, what with the number of times it's already been done. This is mostly due to DBZ being one of the first anime that was actually described as that-- an anime. I wasn't exctly existing at the time, but I'm pretty sure most American viewers of stuff like Astro Boy and Speed Racer weren't aware of them being anime. And if they were, they probably wouldn't think that hard about if there were any differences between the English and Japanese versions. Now, anime is such a big thing in America, that fans actually are aware of things like possible script changes and such, so the companies are trying their best to be as accurate to the script as possible. If DBZ wasn't one of the first anime to be dubbed when the term "anime" wasn't even known and was instead brought to us during today's world, then I can see DBZ getting a more respected and accurate dub.

Unfortunately, DBZ was "the first of their kind" to come over to the US (after Speed Racer's "era"), so a lot of trial and error was involved (grunting noises, BGM change, script change, etc).

Whew, that's all I've got for now.

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Post by Aukon07 » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:28 am

I think it's too late to revise the English dub now, it's been this long. I doubt all that many who watched the Funimation dub will be interested to watch it again with new voices.

I'll stick with the original Japanese version thank you. :)

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Post by Bardock the Mexican » Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:18 am

The short answer is no. I would not need a good english dub because I have the already good Mexican dub. It's not like I would care if they changed voice actors or what have you. I think that for most of you if the new dub did what the Mexican dub did (keep the Japanese nature intact and whole) by keeping Japanese terms for attacks and other stuff with good pronunciation. This would mean coaching the actors on how to do it RIGHT.
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Post by Brakus » Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:31 am

Let's hit this point by point, according to Kula's specifications.
Talented voice actors
Regardless of what other people on this forum think of English voice actors, I think you have a first-string team of voice actors in each region (Houston, Dallas, L.A., New York, Vancouver), and it basically depends on what group of actors would be used.
High quality acting
Keep in mind you have to realize that when all is said and done, DB/Z/GT is still a kids' show. On one hand I don't expect the acting to be on a par with other quality shows like Bebop or FMA, but on the other hand, I don't want a 4Kids exaggerated dub either.
Voices that are carefully cast for each character, that are appropriate when compared to the original Japanese VAs
Here's something that might be shocking to people that may not know much about the whole English casting process: the particular dubbing group/company may make initial choices for characters, but the ultimate decision as to who plays which character lies with the Japanese. The Japanese can make casting decisions that seem illogical, but because the Japanese made the final choice, that's what the American cast has to go with.

Scott McNeil (for example) might be the preferred voice that Company A might want for (say) Vegeta, but if the Japanese say it needs to be Brad Swaile, then no amount of prodding and persuading by Company A and its supporters will change the Japanese's decision to go with Brad instead of Scott.
One VA per character or at least cast VAs that can do distinctive voices for more than one character
Again, the American company may make suggestions, but the Japanese have the final say. If the Japanese make casting decisions that indicate that one particular actor be the voice of two or three particular roles, then that's what the American company has to go with.
Accurate script
No pointless adlibs
This may be all well and good, but if the English script is as closely accurate to the letter to the possible, you run the risk of the script being extremely dry and uninteresting. The acting may be done very well, but if the script is dull and dry, then you could very well be left a show with all its life taken out of it.

You also have to remember that the script needs to match the mouth flaps, because English dubs tend to make the words fit the mouth flaps. English speakers tend to want what their watching match the mouth movements, as opposed to the Japanese who tend to not care one way or another how the words fit the mouth flaps. The lines will need to be accurate and convey the point across, but if it doesn't fit the flaps, it will look very shoddy and "typical bad dubbing found in dubbed live-action martial arts films from the 1970s".
No unnecessary noises coming from characters when there should be silence
It is possible to do foley (those grunts and other noises in between the spoken lines) for characters without overdoing it - believe it or not, Japanese foley/reaction noises tend to be overexaggerated than how it would be done in English.
Original JP music
As long as the American company is able to use the original Japanese BGM for the English dub, it's fine.

As far as if I would watch it over the long-term, I'm of the same mindset of Julian, Mike, and Meri. I'd watch it for a little bit, make my judgments, and then maybe check out what other episodes I'd like to check out in English.
- J

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Post by Death-T » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:38 am

Brackus wrote:
This may be all well and good, but if the English script is as closely accurate to the letter to the possible, you run the risk of the script being extremely dry and uninteresting. The acting may be done very well, but if the script is dull and dry, then you could very well be left a show with all its life taken out of it.

You also have to remember that the script needs to match the mouth flaps, because English dubs tend to make the words fit the mouth flaps. English speakers tend to want what their watching match the mouth movements, as opposed to the Japanese who tend to not care one way or another how the words fit the mouth flaps. The lines will need to be accurate and convey the point across, but if it doesn't fit the flaps, it will look very shoddy and "typical bad dubbing found in dubbed live-action martial arts films from the 1970s".

We're not asking for a word for word accurate script,just an accurate one at that. We realize that dubbing companies sometimes have to reword sentences and such to match the mouth flaps. And I don't mind when the script writer wants to add their own touch to it.

But you're apperently neglecting to realize just how absolutley innaccurate FUNimations script is. If you change between audio tracks on one of FUNimations DVDs with the dub and sub,then you'll see this. They've almost totally recreated the script in their own way,from giving innaccurate explenations to totally changing what's in a conversation. There is no iscuse (sp?) for how innaccurate FUNimations Dragon Ball Z script is.
It is possible to do foley (those grunts and other noises in between the spoken lines) for characters without overdoing it - believe it or not, Japanese foley/reaction noises tend to be overexaggerated than how it would be done in English.
Yes,FUNimation did over do it. We're not saying the grunts and whatnot should never be acted,just not nearly as much as they are in the dub.
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Post by Thanos6 » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:44 am

Why, listening to Nappa's, Cell's, Freeza's, Kaio's, Super Buu's, and many other dub-voices that I can't remember off-hand makes me want to take a power drill to my head so that I may rid myself of the torture of what feels like being burned alive.
Funny; I actually thought Dameon Clarke as Cell was the best thing FUNi ever did. Perfect Cell, especially; I'll go so far as to say that as Perfect Cell, he surpassed Norio Wakamoto, the only of the FUNi cast to ever outshine their Japanese counterpart.

Chris Sabat would be better if he didn't have so many bloody parts. He does a pretty good Vegeta. As good as Ryo Horikawa? No. But still pretty good. Mind you, Brian Drummond ALSO did a fairly good job, in the Saiyan Saga, IMO anyway (I haven't seen his dub group's job beyond that). Anyway, Sabat also does...decent with Piccolo. Could be better, could be worse. He doesn't begin to do justice to Yamcha, never mind everyone else, and should just stick to Vegeta and Piccolo.

I don't want to speak about Sean Schemmel. Mind, I don't like Masako Nozawa, either; seems Goku has trouble finding a good actor, IMO. ;) She does better as Gohan, but Kyle Hebert does well with him (grown-up) as well.

Linda Young? The irony is, she's a pretty good actress. As Genkai (is that the right name?) the chain-smoking old psychic lady in YYH, she was spot-on. As Freeza? Give me Ryusei Nakao so I don't run away screaming.

I almost wish there was a way that when you started the DVD or fired up the videogame, you could pick language options for each individual character. :D
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Post by caejones » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:50 am

Heh heh... cross-language casting might not be that hard? ... never mind.

Why do I want to hear Freeza with a Spanish accent and a voice similar to the Japanese one? I can't really decide how I feel about most of the main cast (Goku, Piccolo and Vegeta seem ridiculously defined as their Funimation VAs... and comparing them to the Japanese counterparts to decide who is better... I don't know how possible that is. :(.).

Though I must say, having only really paid attention to Zarban in the Ocean-group version of Season 2, I was pretty annoyed when I heard Sabbat doing his voice in Budokai Tenkaichi... "Oh, it's that guy who does all of the other voices except for Goku's family and Trunks".
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Post by Brakus » Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:19 am

Death-T wrote: But you're apperently neglecting to realize just how absolutley innaccurate FUNimations script is. If you change between audio tracks on one of FUNimations DVDs with the dub and sub,then you'll see this. They've almost totally recreated the script in their own way,from giving innaccurate explenations to totally changing what's in a conversation. There is no iscuse (sp?) for how innaccurate FUNimations Dragon Ball Z script is.
There's the trade-off. Do you want an accurate translation that could be dry and boring, or do you want a lively translation that could be inaccurate and misleading?

An ideal dub for me would be a good, accurate translated script that keeps to the basic story, and yet the language in the scripts is lively enough to enhance the quirks and characteristics of each role. It's a good balancing act of accuracy versus liveliness. I want a good English translated dub, but I don't want it to put me to sleep, either.
- J

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Post by TheJoo87 » Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:53 am

Brakus wrote:
Death-T wrote: But you're apperently neglecting to realize just how absolutley innaccurate FUNimations script is. If you change between audio tracks on one of FUNimations DVDs with the dub and sub,then you'll see this. They've almost totally recreated the script in their own way,from giving innaccurate explenations to totally changing what's in a conversation. There is no iscuse (sp?) for how innaccurate FUNimations Dragon Ball Z script is.
There's the trade-off. Do you want an accurate translation that could be dry and boring, or do you want a lively translation that could be inaccurate and misleading?
How excatly would an accurate translation be dry and boring? If anything most of the lines in the japanese version have more inpact in them anyway.
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Post by desirecampbell » Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:58 am

Brakus wrote:There's the trade-off. Do you want an accurate translation that could be dry and boring, or do you want a lively translation that could be inaccurate and misleading?
What? Bardock doesn't have to be a scientist for the series to be 'lively'.

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Post by Brakus » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:25 pm

How excatly would an accurate translation be dry and boring? If anything most of the lines in the japanese version have more inpact in them anyway.
How would you know if the Japanese dub had more impact if you don't have any fluency in Japanese? It's extremely difficult if not impossible to discern how impactive it was in the "original" language if you don't have any fluency in the language. I know you can glean the emotion or emphasis or perhaps context of the conversation from the tone of voice (angry, happy, sad, etc.), but I could say some random sentence three different ways to someone not fluent in English and they could glean the emotion but not necessarily the meaning or connotation.
desirecampbell wrote:
Brakus wrote:There's the trade-off. Do you want an accurate translation that could be dry and boring, or do you want a lively translation that could be inaccurate and misleading?
What? Bardock doesn't have to be a scientist for the series to be 'lively'.
Being "lively" could be more of a function of the VA's performance than the script translation. And Bardock being "a brilliant scientist" is more of a function of an inaccurate translation than anything else. "Lively" and "accurate" shouldn't be mutually exclusive.
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Post by desirecampbell » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:39 pm

Brakus wrote:How would you know if the Japanese dub had more impact if you don't have any fluency in Japanese?
Um, acting? While there are times when the exact original script is important to the overall presentation (like with a Shakespearian play), most times simply understanding what information has been exchanged is enough and the way in which the lines are delivered is more important than anything else.

Sure, I'm not fluent in Japanese - but I'm not braindead either. I can tell the difference between an emotionless, forced reading and actual fucking acting.
Being "lively" could be more of a function of the VA's performance than the script translation. And Bardock being "a brilliant scientist" is more of a function of an inaccurate translation than anything else. "Lively" and "accurate" shouldn't be mutually exclusive.
Um, I agree - that's what I, and everyone else, was saying. Why did you say:
There's the trade-off. Do you want an accurate translation that could be dry and boring, or do you want a lively translation that could be inaccurate and misleading?
There's no need for a trade-off. A dub can be both accurate and well-acted.

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Post by Brakus » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:02 pm

desirecampbell wrote:
Brakus wrote:How would you know if the Japanese dub had more impact if you don't have any fluency in Japanese?
Um, acting? While there are times when the exact original script is important to the overall presentation (like with a Shakespearian play), most times simply understanding what information has been exchanged is enough and the way in which the lines are delivered is more important than anything else.

Sure, I'm not fluent in Japanese - but I'm not braindead either. I can tell the difference between an emotionless, forced reading and actual fucking acting.
But if you're not fluent in Japanese, you have no idea of what the actor is saying. You can glean the emotion and impact in that context, but you really don't have any way of gauging the acting ability. To one person someone's performance might be spot on, but to another person, the same performance could be really exaggerated.

It's basically "I have no idea what he was saying, but it sounded good..." Now you might say "Solution: subtitles", but again those depend on how accurate the translation is (and how fast you can read them without being too distracted by them while reading them).
Being "lively" could be more of a function of the VA's performance than the script translation. And Bardock being "a brilliant scientist" is more of a function of an inaccurate translation than anything else. "Lively" and "accurate" shouldn't be mutually exclusive.
Um, I agree - that's what I, and everyone else, was saying. Why did you say:
There's the trade-off. Do you want an accurate translation that could be dry and boring, or do you want a lively translation that could be inaccurate and misleading?
There's no need for a trade-off. A dub can be both accurate and well-acted.[/quote]

The way you said "Bardock isn't a brilliant scientist to be lively" made me think that it has to be one way or another. In fact, a lot of people on here seem to think that a dub has to be one way or another, and given the choice, they're rather have it accurate than lively. You can have the best of both worlds.
- J

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Post by Brakus » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:10 pm

I really do apologize if I'm turning this into yet another "sub/dub" argument. Let it be known that I do like watching DB/Z/GT in both English AND Japanese. (And I hated the English dubs of Love Hina, Gravitation, and Genshiken.) An "ideal dub" of DB/Z/GT to me doesn't have to voice-match the Japanese voices, nor does it have to be strictly translated word-for-word. If it sounds decent and is capably translated, then that's the ideal dub of it for me. Again, this is a kids' show primarily, and I don't expect the "ideal dub" to be on a par with more acclaimed shows like FMA or Bebop. If I like it, then it's the "ideal dub."
- J

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