Broly, stronger than Perfect Cell?

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:11 pm

Had Broli destroyed the Southern galaxy in seconds, which he didn't, why wouldn't he just destroy the Northern galaxy in the same amount of time...? Or if it was all just to get Vegeta's attention (oh, and Vegeta can't see a giant galactic explosion in the sky by the way), why didn't he destroy another galaxy besides the Northern one? Or both the East and the West? As long as Vegeta died at Paragus’ hands, or Broli’s, Paragus didn’t seem to care who else died.

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:54 pm

You seem to be in DENIAL!

The movie clearly shows a galaxy being vaporized in seconds. It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:19 am

Phenomenol wrote:You seem to be in DENIAL!

The movie clearly shows a galaxy being vaporized in seconds. It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

Which galaxy was it? I don't have the movie handy (which probably means it's lost, and I'll have to buy it again). Is it the same galaxy they're in?

Ex-Dubbie369 · Post by **Ex-Dubbie369** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:24 am

desirecampbell wrote:Which galaxy was it? I don't have the movie handy (which probably means it's lost, and I'll have to buy it again). Is it the same galaxy they're in?

It's the Southern Galaxy.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:48 am

Ex-Dubbie369 wrote:
desirecampbell wrote:Which galaxy was it? I don't have the movie handy (which probably means it's lost, and I'll have to buy it again). Is it the same galaxy they're in?
It's the Southern Galaxy.

And which galaxy is New Planet Vegeta in?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:21 am

Phenomenol wrote:The movie clearly shows a galaxy being vaporized in seconds. It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

Yes?

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:09 am

Phenomenol wrote:You seem to be in DENIAL!

The movie clearly shows a galaxy being vaporized in seconds. It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

Actually, you're the one in denial. Brolly didn't destroy the galaxy like Freeza destroyed Namek. He was even shown, during the course of the movie, attacking individual planets. And Goku was jumping from world to world in the South Galaxy looking for him. The South Galaxy is still there, that is a fact. What they were showing was a figurative representation of the damage he was doing.

DemonKingPiccolo · Post by **DemonKingPiccolo** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:14 am

Phenomenol wrote:
Rocketman wrote:Impossible.
This sounds like DENIAL!!!!

Go watch the movie.

SSj Kaboom wrote:Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. Entire galaxies don't get wiped out within seconds. Plus, in terms of the dialogue, I'm not sure what Toei was smoking when they made up the narrator or King Kai's lines. Nobody can simply destroy an entire galaxy so quickly and easily. Not even Buu could do it that fast. Even if SSj4 Goku were to teleport from planet to planet, blowing each one up in a matter of seconds before moving on to the next, it would take him years to wipe out an entire galaxy.
Well this is anime and the writers can make their characters do WHATEVER they want, and what was shown was a Galaxy being vaporized in seconds!!!!!!

Regardless of what many of of you THINK, it happened.

First, a general point: It's difficult to compare canon characters to non-canon ones because the non-canon characters are just that, non-canon, so their abilities are full of errors. Let me explain.

The thing that's incredibly stupid of Toei is that due to Broly's Saiyan heritage, his recovery from his severe injuries in movie 8 should've resulted in a Zenkai.

Broly was able to over-power four advanced Super Saiyans and a Super Namek in movie 8. The thing that's stupid is that in movie 10, he was overpowered by a Super Saiyan who slacked off, his younger brother (a fairly weak Super Saiyan), and a Super Saiyan who controversially existed at all in movie 10 (remember, movie 10 is Broly, post zenkai). This doesn't make any sense!

If Toei didn't manage to screw up so badly, then this would be much easier to discuss. Pre-zenkai, Broly was as strong as Cell's form post-zenkai; Post-Zenkai Broly, he should've been much stronger then post-zenkai Cell.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:36 am

SSJ Kaboom wrote:I don't see anything in the movie, in terms of relative power between the heroes or their physical design, to say that they were anything other than in their post-RoSaT states.

Gohan and Goku not being Super Saiyan all the time? (Don't say they just "powered down" during the movie. That would be pointless and counteractive to the training itself, and such a thing never occurs in the 10 days before the Cell Game.)

All the warriors being about the same strength? Piccolo keeping up with everyone? Gohan seeming to be the weakest?

Take your pick. The movie isn't Post-RoSaT (or pre-).

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:16 am

The only way a galaxy could be destroyed in a matter of seconds is if some crazy gravitational crap happened, which in turn requires that we fill in the gaps with what we don't understand about gravity. So basically, Broli had to play basketball with black holes to make the effect shown happen on the timespan shown.

Though, I don't know that it indicates Goku was chasing Broli through the South Galaxy planets exclusively...?

Though I always thought Toei was trying to make it look as though Broli could destroy a galaxy in seconds, which was one of the major problems I had with the movie. "Well, do it again! They'll sufficate, at least."

... Yeah, Perfect Cell, probably below superperfect. Maybe Broli got cancer between movies 8 and 10 so he was somewhat weaker in movie 10.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:04 am

Phenomenol wrote:Yes Broli destroyed a Galaxy in one shot. You see at the very start a Galaxy VANISHING in a moment!!!

Well gee, someone better inform South Kaio then because he doesn't seem to be aware of it from his behaviour. Perhaps Phenomenol should do it since he's so much more enlightened than us.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:06 pm

Duo wrote:
SSJ Kaboom wrote:I don't see anything in the movie, in terms of relative power between the heroes or their physical design, to say that they were anything other than in their post-RoSaT states.
Gohan and Goku not being Super Saiyan all the time? (Don't say they just "powered down" during the movie. That would be pointless and counteractive to the training itself, and such a thing never occurs in the 10 days before the Cell Game.)

All the warriors being about the same strength? Piccolo keeping up with everyone? Gohan seeming to be the weakest?

Take your pick. The movie isn't Post-RoSaT (or pre-).

(No, I'm not trying to get into another debate with you on this, just want to point a few things out.)

First point: No one seemed to be worried about Cell during the course of movie 8. So obviously, he was dead. Likely, Vegeta killed him in his Semi-Perfect form. Or had better aim with his Final Flash. Either way, no Cell Games, no reason for Goku and Gohan to remain transformed.

Point two: You can't really tell who was keeping up with who. Everyone was getting their ass handed to them just as bad as everyone else with the, minor, exception of Goku. But then, this is Toei, we know they prefered Goku over everyone else. If they can make Goku look stronger than Gohan in Movie 13 which we know is post Kid Buu saga, I see no reason for them to have issues doing the same in movie 8.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:13 pm

My biggest worry is that I'll end up wanting to watch Movie 8 again to re-analyze these things, because the disc is basically destroyed, and the only DVD I've ever cared so little for to where that happened on accident.

Allow me to counter, then, with this point. While I can contest point #2, very little conclusion can come from it. My entire position on the Broli movies depends heavily on consider facts from both movies entirely. If Movie 8 stands alone, it's hard for me to prove that Goku and Gohan were extracted mid-time chamber because of what you said. However, because Gohan in Movie 10 was significantly powered up in Movie 10 (stated) compared to himself in Movie 8, a huge piece of evidence comes into play for my side.

The same people made both movies, and while they weren't clear at times, they couldn't have done this on accident. Gohan in Movie 10 was quite superior to his Movie 8 self, yet that's impossible of Movie 8 Gohan is "Post-RoSaT". I can't just chalk this up to the movie creators making a mistake and being ignorant/stupid, because both movies make complete sense by the way I've got things figured, and they aren't far'fetched either.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:57 pm

I was going to suggest that movie9 explains super Gohan in movie10, then I realized that movie9 requires the Cell Games to make sense.

Umm, Goku was abducted by aliens that did weird experiments on him that resulted in his death. Gohan went SSJ2 and killed the abducters.

... or maybe Duo's right.
Unless the movie writers decide that even sequel movies are based more on the surrounding series than their prequels... maybe Movie10 occurs if movie8 occured a different way than shown? Which... doesn't make much sense, because then SSJ2 Gohan would likely have killed Broli in the alternate movie8.

I should watch movie10 so I know what I'm talking about. o.o. Though, is it explained how Broli gets to earth?

[edit] Oooh. Broli is part of the RoSaT training. ... yeah, I have no idea how that makes sense, but if it can work (which would be hard considering who all is in the movie), it'd make it a lot easier to explain loads of 'plotholes'. 'course, that makes things even worse. ... Guh, I really need to learn when to not talk...[/edit]

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:36 am

caejones wrote:The only way a galaxy could be destroyed in a matter of seconds is if some crazy gravitational crap happened

Incorrect. The speed of gravity is the speed of light. Even if Broly could generate enough power to shatter a galaxy (AHAHAHAHAHA), it would take about 50,000 years for the galaxy to come apart.

suomipoika · Post by **suomipoika** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:47 am

I think Brolly is more powerful then cell, cause ssj goku was pretty good with cell, but he was pretty bad with legendary super saiyan brolly

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:00 pm

Duo wrote:
SSJ Kaboom wrote:I don't see anything in the movie, in terms of relative power between the heroes or their physical design, to say that they were anything other than in their post-RoSaT states.
Gohan and Goku not being Super Saiyan all the time? (Don't say they just "powered down" during the movie. That would be pointless and counteractive to the training itself, and such a thing never occurs in the 10 days before the Cell Game.)

But the movie seems to take the "Cell Games aren't happening for one reason or another" approach, judging from the way everyone's lounging around relaxing and enjoying themselves at the beginning (save for Goku, of course). No Cell Games = nothing to "train" for, besides the same old casual training, which wouldn't require the constant Super Saiyan thing.

Duo wrote:All the warriors being about the same strength? Piccolo keeping up with everyone? Gohan seeming to be the weakest?

What would indicate they're all around the same? Broli was strong enough to slap ALL of them around very easily, so there's not much to gauge it by.

Just because Gohan's actually the strongest at the time doesn't mean he'll put up the biggest fight. He hardly ever does. Before going Super Saiyan 2, he was letting Cell knock him around, too, and had Cell been at full power, it would've likely hurt him.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:09 pm

Don't forget my strongest point, Kaboom.

Duo wrote:Allow me to counter, then, with this point. While I can contest point #2, very little conclusion can come from it. My entire position on the Broli movies depends heavily on consider facts from both movies entirely. If Movie 8 stands alone, it's hard for me to prove that Goku and Gohan were extracted mid-time chamber because of what you said. However, because Gohan in Movie 10 was significantly powered up in Movie 10 (stated) compared to himself in Movie 8, a huge piece of evidence comes into play for my side.

The same people made both movies, and while they weren't clear at times, they couldn't have done this on accident. Gohan in Movie 10 was quite superior to his Movie 8 self, yet that's impossible of Movie 8 Gohan is "Post-RoSaT". I can't just chalk this up to the movie creators making a mistake and being ignorant/stupid, because both movies make complete sense by the way I've got things figured, and they aren't far'fetched either.

Also...

Ssj Kaboom wrote:But the movie seems to take the "Cell Games aren't happening for one reason or another" approach

Nearly all of the movies extract the characters maturity, strength, and design from a point in the series in which they cannot logically have these events take place. If Broli overpowered them THAT much, then how was he defeated by them combining the pathetic remains of their Ki? And if there was that much of a difference in their power, you would see a difference between the effect Gohan had in the battle compared to Piccolo.

A lot of this can be interpretation, but my point that relates movie 10 to the equation really solidifies it all.

Also, if Gohan was at that strength, what stopped him from going Super Saiyan 2 to stop Broli? Even if he hadn't done it before, the situation was as, if not more desperate than it was against Cell. Remember him blowing up the Slave's home planet in front of them? Yeah. I think Goku also would have been pushing for "Gohan's hidden powers" if there was such a thing to rely on at the time.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:21 pm

Aha, I see.

EDIT: See this, kids? This is a little something called, "standing down and letting a debate end once you realize your argument is invalid for one reason or another!" Give it a try sometime! It won't bite!

Humpski · Post by **Humpski** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:33 pm

Brolli is weaker than Cell, in fact he's weaker than a kitten.
In order to prove this fact I direct you towards movie 10 in which Videl effortlessly dodged one of his punches... VIDEL! I mean come on! She shouldn't last an instant against him if he's as strong as he's supposed to be.

Kanzenshuu

Broly, stronger than Perfect Cell?

Who is online