Broly, stronger than Perfect Cell?

Post by **desirecampbell** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:39 pm

Phenomenol wrote:Broli destroyed a Galaxy and it is stated....FACT.

No, he didn't. It is stated that he was in the process of destroying the southern galaxy, he was causing great havoc. But we know that he didn't actually destroy the whole thing in one blowfor these reasons:

-He is shown flying from planet to planet blowing them up - not just destroying the whole galaxy at once.
-After Goku is told about this by Kaio, he goes to a planet in the southern galaxy to investigate.
-The whole film takes place on New Planet Vegeta, a planet in the southern galaxy. If Broli had destroyed the whole galaxy, the planet would not be there.

Phenomenol wrote:Cell is said to have the power to destroy the ENTIRE Solar System....FACT.

Cell himself said that. Just like Vegeta said he was a Super Saiyan when he fought Freeza the second time. Cell didn't know, he either assumed he could or he was simply bluffing. He very well could have the power to destroy a whole solar system, we just don't know because he never tried.

Phenomenol wrote:Show me where it is stated they can't or please stop posting.

Show me where it's stated that Kuririn can't destroy a galaxy.

SS2 Vegeto · Post by **SS2 Vegeto** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:05 pm

There's not really any reason to doubt that he could destroy the solar system, at that level of power (we must also remember that it is a work of fiction, if it is written, and not contested, it seems groundless to consider otherwise), but by simply agreeing to that, Phenomenal is forced to conclude that Broly is still countless thousands of times stronger - and I'd like to see him justify it. Unfortunately, I'll probably just be met by another accusation that I'm "in denial", with no answer to the again neglected issue at hand. If he wants to press the issue that we're in dissagreeance with both the movies, and the manga (I've yet to hear him even justify this accusation, so I don't even know where it's coming from), then I do believe that leaves him with the obligation to sort out his own problems, in that area, in giving us a straight answer.

No, it is never stated. Phenomenal, maybe you should be a bit more responsive, and consider the fact that Duo posted up the exact dialogue, instead of just clinging to your opinions, and baselessly stating that they are true. It's said that Broly is in the process of destroying it. We see him in the process of destroying it. Kaiosama states that he's "finished tearing up the southern galaxy", simply meaning that he moved on; not destroyed the whole thing. He's had enough of tearing things up there. Kaiosama even tells Goku to "go check out" the Southern Galaxy.

Please prove that the image absolutely has to be taken literally, and in real time. Prove that it is not a representation of what is or could be happening to the galaxy, or symbolic imagery for Broly's reign of destruction. Please explain how many planets, and vast amounts of stars, could survive a galaxy spiraling out of existence, in perfect shape.

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:17 pm

Conan the SSJ wrote:Did you ignore Duo's post? He went to the trouble of digging up his FUNi DVD to do a word-for-word transcript of Daimao's translation and this is how you repay him, with more denial ... and now lying? Look at the official translation, it isn't stated anywhere the South Galaxy has been destroyed, just that it's come under attack. Now you're contradicting Steve Simmons' own work. *sarcasticly claps*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze5sE7RebIE

......The damn Japanese (with Subs) say the same thing. You guys are really failing right now.

@ Desire Campbell: Your ENTIRE post is nothing but speculation and it totally goes against the Canon manga. Cell can destroy a solar System, Broli can destroy a galaxy.

Author > your opinions!

SS2 Vegeto · Post by **SS2 Vegeto** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:33 pm

All he says about the south galaxy in the sub is "The South Galaxy...".

Get back to us, when your dodgy method of debate stops underscoring so much, which side here is really digging their own grave in this debate.

Ex-Dubbie369 · Post by **Ex-Dubbie369** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:29 pm

Phenomenol wrote:@ Desire Campbell: Your ENTIRE post is nothing but speculation and it totally goes against the Canon manga. Cell can destroy a solar System, Broli can destroy a galaxy.

Author > your opinions!

Ok then. Where, in the manga, either does Cell say, or is stated from some other source, that he can destroy a solar system?

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:03 am

Ex-Dubbie369 wrote:Ok then. Where, in the manga, either does Cell say, or is stated from some other source, that he can destroy a solar system?

Dragonball, Volume 35, page 98:

Cell: "Ha ha ha haaaa!!! I have enough ki to blow away the entire solar system!!!!"

But like Desire said, that was just said by Cell. I remember Vegeta (power level being "barely 18,000" at the time) stating he was he strongest in the universe, even though Freeza's stated full power while in his third suppression was 530,000.

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:15 am

Ex-Dubbie369 wrote:Ok then. Where, in the manga, either does Cell say, or is stated from some other source, that he can destroy a solar system?

Volume 35 Chapter 415:

SS2 Vegeto wrote:All he says about the south galaxy in the sub is "The South Galaxy...".

VANISHED...........You can see it bust in seconds.

Really, all of your posts seem repugnant.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:28 am

What the fuck?! You contend that Broli destroyed the south galaxy? But we see the south galaxy after it was supposedly destroyed. We see it. We actually, really, variably see it.

Jesus fucking fuck fuck. Phenomenol, this kind of ass-backwards discussion might be allowed on 4chan, but here we actually read other posts.

You - "Broli destroyed a galaxy"
Every-fucking-body fucking-else - "No, he didn't. Ten minutes after we see that 'vanishing galaxy' Goku uses Shunken Ido to travel to a planet in the souther galaxy."

-edit-
"Seems repugnant"? Don't say "repugnant" if you don't know what it means, you idiot.

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:38 am

Just because two planets is intact doesn't mean he didn't destroy a galaxy (IE a few billion stars and planets). LOL! What a terrible excuse.

Stop going against the damn Movie...........

Broli destroyed a Galaxy whether you like it or not.

Build a Bridge and get the @#$% over it!!!!!

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:40 am

Duo wrote:Well, honestly, can't we all agree that this whole thing is stupid enough not to reply to anymore? Let's just ignore whatever Phenomenal says on the subject. That should fix the issue since he's just going to repeat himself with increasingly poor Grammar.

I put my hands on my knee's and sigh with the fury of a thousands fists.

And let's not forget the truth as posted by Jerseymilk

SatoSky · Post by **SatoSky** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:45 am

::Randomly wandered in and read the posts::

Briskly walks out whistling.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:03 am

Phenomenol, I sent you a long, polite PM concerning your debating style, and in the process of writing it I actually came up with an argument for your position that actually seemed to hold a little more water with me. In case you didn't notice, I was trying to help you look less like an ass. Since you've blatently shat on my offer and continue to verify the validity of the youtube video used to characterize you... well... yah, I'm not going to bother defending you anymore.

So, about that argument that suggests the writers intended Broli to destroy an entire galaxy at once:
Basically, it hinges on the style of the effects in the galactic destruction scene. If the galaxy was being shown destroyed in sections rather than as a whole, even at an accelerated rate, there would be nothing to go against the "it was definitely symbollic" view held by the majority of posters. On the other hand, if the galaxy is shown being decimated as a whole in one act, it could be argued that the writers/animaters/whoever decided to make it so intended for Broli to have destroyed it all in one big attack. In this case, the fact that Broli got back to Neo Vegeta during the movie is the clencher--whether or not it is in the southern galaxy, it is plenty close enough for Broli to reach in a timely fashion after laying waste to the southern galaxy. Sure, a few planets could have survived the destruction of a few billion stars ("LOL"), but with stars in their skies? With people living on them? With spaceships traveling to and fro with no mishaps? Now we're stretching it.
Oh, and ignore my last four sentences, and you "go against the movie"! Make a decent attempt to refute my argument, otherwise don't accuse me of being wrong.

It is stated that Vegeta was a Super Saiyan while fighting Freeza... fact?
It was stated that Tenshinhan couldn't be defeated... fact?
It was stated by Lord Onio: "I am the strongest warrior in existance!"
Onio in Chapter 2: "But Lord Kuriza is the true strongest in the universe!"
Onio in Chapter 3, referring to Vegeta: "Face the strongest in the universe!"
... fact? They were all written by Toriyama, after all.

Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece · Post by **Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:14 am

Phenomenol wrote: Stop going against the damn Movie...........

Broli destroyed a Galaxy whether you like it or not.

Build a Bridge and get the @#$% over it!!!!!

No.

Hey, I can do it too. It's the best most informative rebuttal ever.

DemonKingPiccolo · Post by **DemonKingPiccolo** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:15 am

Toei-made flashback/story modes are next to nothing for reference. I suppose that the original Super Saiyan was a Golden Oozaru. Nowhere is it stated in the manga, it was simply an image inserted into the anime to assist Vegeta's explanation.

It is also not stated anywhere that Broly destroyed the galaxy in an instant. It isn't even stated that the original Buu destroyed a single galaxy in an instant. I don't even think that Goku could do it at Super Saiyan 3.

I do however believe that Shin Gohan Buu could do it, and of course Vegetto could've done it in an instant. Individually, both of them could kill Broly with a single finger.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:34 am

Duo wrote:
Duo wrote:Well, honestly, can't we all agree that this whole thing is stupid enough not to reply to anymore? Let's just ignore whatever Phenomenal says on the subject. That should fix the issue since he's just going to repeat himself with increasingly poor Grammar.
I put my hands on my knee's and sigh with the fury of a thousands fists.

And let's not forget the truth as posted by Jerseymilk

And you know, with every post of his I read through, all I can hear is incessant braying. >>

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:53 am

I think that Oliver Hauge would crush him. As known I´m not fond of his debating skills, but when looking at Phenomenol´s posts I realise that I had no reason to even get bothered by Oliver Hauge.
We need you Oliver Hauge. Show him what is canon, filler ect. with your knowledge.
You are the only one that can bring him down to earth.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:00 am

DemonKingPiccolo wrote:I do however believe that Shin Gohan Buu could do it, and of course Vegetto could've done it in an instant. Individually, both of them could kill Broly with a single finger.

Galaxy nothing, they could have wiped out the universe. It was shown they were powerful enough to cause tears in the fabric of reality. But, even so, I don't think they could have destroyed *just* a galaxy. It'd be all or nothing.

Anyway, onto the current topic of discussion...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze5sE7RebIE

......The damn Japanese (with Subs) say the same thing. You guys are really failing right now.

Thank-you for providing just the proof I need to prove you wrong. So kind of you.

First of all, the galaxy isn't shown being destroyed. What's shown is a sped up disintegration. Not an explosion. Explosion would mean that yes, a blast had done major damage to it. Disintegration means that areas were destroyed, one by one. It's just that simple. That is visually stated fact.

Also, no. The Japanese version says exactly what Duo says it said. Not what you want it to say. The dub can say that a pea ate the South Galaxy for all it matters, doesn't change the facts.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:41 am

caejones wrote: Basically, it hinges on the style of the effects in the galactic destruction scene. If the galaxy was being shown destroyed in sections rather than as a whole, even at an accelerated rate, there would be nothing to go against the "it was definitely symbollic" view held by the majority of posters.

Case closed, then?

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:54 pm

*Looks at members posts*

I see you guys are STILL ignoring the facts.

@caejones: Your PM was nice but it doesn't go along with the Movie, sorry.

Broli destroyed a Galaxy.........MOVE ON.

Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece · Post by **Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:00 pm

Phenomenol wrote:*Looks at members posts*

I see you guys are STILL ignoring the facts.

@caejones: Your PM was nice but it doesn't go along with the Movie, sorry.

Broli destroyed a Galaxy.........MOVE ON.

Kanzenshuu

Broly, stronger than Perfect Cell?

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