What does "Daizenshuu" mean to you?

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:04 am

There is no way everything in that guide can be taking seriously. I mean, come on, Tien was one of the three-eyed people or whatever they were called. There was no such mention during the series, and no mention of his background period.

If you want to believe everything in that book to be cannon, more power to you!

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:06 am

MajinVejitaXV wrote:Huzzah, yet another case of taking things out of context. Nowhere in that statement does Toriyama state that the Daizenshuu are canon or equal to his own writing, he simply states (in a humble and respectful way) that he appreciates the efforts of the people who wrote them (i.e. - Not him) and that had they been around, he would have not had as much difficulty remembering all the details that he created himself in 11 years of writing the series (i.e. - "Thanks for filling in my plotholes").

Let it go dude. They're great books with great information, but they're not canon. And really, who gives a damn?

1 Dumb ass = still dumb.

-Corey

P.S. - Hey Mike, can I have a custom title? Apparently I'm the Ass, with a capital A. I feel this needs to be recognized ;p

You missed this on purpose....

"I'm the author of the series, parts that I've lost touch with are in no short supply. I often fell into a lot of the problems during the series so if this massive encyclopedia was around back then, I would really have been saved..."

Yeah, it means that Toriyama (THE AUTHOR) would USE THAT INFO IN THE DAMN DAIZENSHUU JUST LIKE I SAID!!! I wasn't talking about CANON quit trying to label me as if I am. Your ass got proven wrong and you know it don't try to redeem yourself with your bullshit.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:08 am

/weeps more

Someone make it stop :'(

FindKenshi · Post by **FindKenshi** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:11 am

Phenomenol wrote:"This is the seventh and final volume of the daizenshuu, a Dragon Ball Encyclopedia. The staff who creates these for me go through an awful lot of trouble each time but this time I think they might just have gone straight through Hell, havent you guys? THANK YOU for your hard work. For me, "Mr. Amazingly Forgetful", even though I'm the author of the series, parts that I've lost touch with are in no short supply. I often fell into a lot of the problems during the series so if this massive encyclopedia was around back then, I would really have been saved...which is kinda embarrassing.

Well that was an interesting read, as I'm sure all of Toriyama's writings in such books are, but I really see nothing in that editorial, which would lead me to regard the Daizenshuu books as "absolutly canon".

I know there are many different opinions as to how these guide books are regarded. My own personal regard for them is that they are second to the manga, that if something in a Daizenshuu book contradicts or overwrites something in the manga, then the manga takes precedence. That's my take on it. I simply wanted to hear all of yours. I will admit, Toriyama saying "I wish these guides were around back then, so I could use them for reference" does put additonal weight to their value, but again, I'm talking from a strict sense of:

"Tenshinhan is stated to be decended from aliens in the Daizenshuu, can we consider this to be a fact"

In my opinion, no, it would not be considered a fact. It was not stated in the manga, and furthermore, no one ever treated Tenshinhan like having a third eye was an oddity. No one even mentioned him looking weird, to the best of my recollection. It seems unlikely that it's because he's an alien.

VegettoEX wrote:The only thing I'll point out is that if you either mention a website by name or especially have it linked to in an internet discussion, it's going to be found by the owner of said site, and it would probably be extremely naive to think otherwise.

Point noted. I'd be lieing if I said I wasn't slightly embarassed by this, just wanted you to know I wasn't "dissing" your great site or anything. As far as coming here just to plug my site, I actually intend to stick around a bit, as Dragonball discussion is one of my great hobbies. I only posted the link in an approriate fan-works topic, and don't intend to parade it around or anything like that. I hope I can remain a member of this community.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:13 am

Phenomenol wrote:I wasn't talking about CANON quit trying to label me as if I am.

Phenomenol earlier in this thread, which prompted the whole exchange wrote:I see the Daizneshuu's as canon, Toriyama said so, and he even writes excerpts in them.

...funny thing is, he couldn't even spell "Daizenshuu" right ;p

Your ass got proven wrong and you know it don't try to redeem yourself with your bullshit.

THE CAKE IS A LIE.

-Corey

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:14 am

Yeah, it means that Toriyama (THE AUTHOR) would USE THAT INFO IN THE DAMN DAIZENSHUU JUST LIKE I SAID!!! I wasn't talking about CANON quit trying to label me as if I am. Your ass got proven wrong and you know it don't try to redeem yourself with your bullshit.

He didn't even write the books. They were made by his companions. Still, everything in that book is not cannon. They can't even get stated power levels correct. Let alone, can't say where they got the Tien background information from. He has no reason to use info from the book.

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:19 am

desirecampbell wrote:/weeps more Someone make it stop :'(

Go work on your site please it needs it...

FindKenshi wrote:Well that was an interesting read, as I'm sure all of Toriyama's writings in such books are, but I really see nothing in that editorial, which would lead me to regard the Daizenshuu books as "absolutly canon".

I know there are many different opinions as to how these guide books are regarded. My own personal regard for them is that they are second to the manga, that if something in a Daizenshuu book contradicts or overwrites something in the manga, then the manga takes precedence. That's my take on it. I simply wanted to hear all of yours. I will admit, Toriyama saying "I wish these guides were around back then, so I could use them for reference" does put additonal weight to their value, but again, I'm talking from a strict sense of:

"Tenshinhan is stated to be decended from aliens in the Daizenshuu, can we consider this to be a fact"

In my opinion, no, it would not be considered a fact. It was not stated in the manga, and furthermore, no one ever treated Tenshinhan like having a third eye was an oddity. No one even mentioned him looking weird, to the best of my recollection. It seems unlikely that it's because he's an alien.

And since Toriyama sanctioned it and recognized their work and even went so far as to compliment them by saying he could have used it, IT's not canon? anything incorrect should be considered Toriyama's own mistake.

Anyone still using the Saibaiman argument, please, who cares. Someone stated that an educated fan could arrange the info better.

The fact that AN ENTIRE COMMUNITY consisiting of THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of fans have not yet even come CLOSE to performing such a feat proves this.

Other than that, the Tenshinhan argument is just plain ridiculous.

Why in the hell would they go to such lengths to make him an alien? The same people who doubt that are probably the same people who believe Loose Change.

I can't believe this is still going on.

He didn't even write the books. They were made by his companions. Still, everything in that book is not cannon. They can't even get stated power levels correct. Let alone, can't say where they got the Tenshinhan background information from. He has no reason to use info from the book

Well now YOU said Toriyama has no reason to use the Daizenshuu's but I just showed you where TORIYAMA himself said that he WOULD use them??? Are you saying the Author would use something that isn't "ZOMG CANON?"

Again, MVGXV, you can leave now you have been properly pwned!

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:21 am

Also, Kid Buu cannot instantly destroy entire galaxies.

//Runs away giggling deviously//

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:21 am

It doesn't matter! He has no reason to refer to the books! Many of the things in that book were things he didn't even take time to think about. You continue to worship the guide all you want, because according to you, everything in there is cannon.

SonEric84 · Post by **SonEric84** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:22 am

Phenomenol wrote:Your still a fool, you missed this on purpose....

I hate to say anything, but that really bugs me...it's "you're" as in "you are." Hmm and I have the Daizenshuu that are mostly pictures and since I can't really read Japanese I just enjoy them for the artwork...but I would agree that they should be taken as a companion guide to the series and not a bible or flawless work (because as we all know, well, most of us anyway, they do have their flaws.)

SSj Kaboom wrote:Also, Kid Buu cannot instantly destroy entire galaxies.

//Runs away giggling deviously//

hahahaha That cracks me up.

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:27 am

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:It doesn't matter! He has no reason to refer to the books! Many of the things in that book were things he didn't even take time to think about. You continue to worship the guide all you want, because according to you, everything in there is cannon.

Now, I NEVER said it is infallible, hell Toriyama isn't infallible...I gave you a direct quote from the Author himself sayng that he would use the Daizenshuu's but you wanna ignore it and say no? I don't get the logic.

SonEric84 wrote:I hate to say anything, but that really bugs me...it's "you're" as in "you are." Hmm and I have the Daizenshuu that are mostly pictures and since I can't really read Japanese I just enjoy them for the artwork...but I would agree that they should be taken as a companion guide to the series and not a bible or flawless work.

Thank you for correcting me! Please I except it.

I don't think the Daizenshuu's are bibles of flawless work, hell Toriyama isn't even flawless, I merely stated what Toriyama said.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:37 am

SonEric84 wrote:
SSj Kaboom wrote:Also, Kid Buu cannot instantly destroy entire galaxies.

//Runs away giggling deviously//
hahahaha That cracks me up.

Nor can Broly, for that matter!

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:43 am

Super Saiya-jin 4 Vegeta is hella ugly...change your avatar.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:43 am

Uh oh! Kaboom is trying to start up another one!

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:43 am

My avatar is pretty.

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:46 am

Chichi > Super Saiya-jin 4 Vegeta.

Post by **TripleRach** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:47 am

They're great compilations of information about the series, including some new information of debatable canonicity, and a few instances of erroneous data about old information. That's how I view them.

I don't know why I'm even bothering to answer the original question, since this thread is already a wacky train wreck that will leave many dead and many more injured.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:50 am

Phenomenol wrote:Super Saiya-jin 4 Vegeta is hella ugly...change your avatar.

Bulma begs to differ.

Better than air-humping, creepy-grin SSj2 Goku.

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:52 am

SSj Kaboom wrote:Better than air-humping, creepy-grin SSj2 Goku.

Hey, SS2 Goku is "ZOMG WTF CANON!"

SonEric84 · Post by **SonEric84** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:55 am

TripleRach wrote:They're great compilations of information about the series, including some new information of debatable canonicity, and a few instances of erroneous data about old information. That's how I view them.

I don't know why I'm even bothering to answer the original question, since this thread is already a wacky train wreck that will leave many dead and many more injured.

How right you are.

Kanzenshuu

What does "Daizenshuu" mean to you?

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