SSJ Gogeta vs. SSJ3 Gotenks

[Onikage725]

Don't forget Vegetto mocking Buu for using techniques "a child thought up". There's nothing Gotenks could do against a fusion of Goku and Vegeta, and I'm honestly surprised this is even an issue.

Really now. It should be as simple as this. Could Goten beat his dad? Could Trunks beat his? Technically Gogeta is Gotenks' dad, and the difference in their power should be proportionate to that of the un-fused participants.

[jjgp1112]

And let's not forget that Vegetto wasn't even trying against Buu anyway, since his plan from the start was to get absorbed and save Piccolo and the others, and then kill Buu right then and there (I mean, Vegeta isn't the type to play around with his opponents unless he sees potential in them to be a better opponent, and Goku's only known to toy with opponents when he's a kid). He just wasn't expecting the contents of Buu's body to defuse him. And don't forget about COFFEE-FLAVORED JAWBREAKER VEGETTO~!!!

[desirecampbell]

Really now. It should be as simple as this. Could Goten beat his dad? Could Trunks beat his? Technically Gogeta is Gotenks' dad, and the difference in their power should be proportionate to that of the un-fused participants.

Not quite, Goten and Trunks seems to have been training as Gotenks, not separately. It seemed, to me at least, that Trunks and Goten gained little power during their RoSaT training but that Gotenks' increased immensely.



-edit- Damn Firefox, now you're not spellchecking anything.

[vicdmx]

Really now. It should be as simple as this. Could Goten beat his dad? Could Trunks beat his? Technically Gogeta is Gotenks' dad, and the difference in their power should be proportionate to that of the un-fused participants.

Not quite, Goten and Trunks seems to have been training as Gotenks, not separately. It seemed, to me at least, that Trunks and Goten gained little power during their RoSaT training but that Gotenks' increased immensely.



-edit- Damn Firefox, now you're not spellchecking anything.

Yeah but still probably Gogeta would win because of the experience.

[The Madness]

Gogeta would win through being more powerful. He's pretty much the same person as Vegetto, with the only exception being he doesn't last as long.

Vegeta and Goku are so much more powerful than their sons that the fusions don't even compare. It's a tribute to their power that any fusion we see of them (excepting GT) doesn't need to progress past the SSJ state, even when fighting the most powerful villain in the whole of DBZ.

[Kaboom]

Not quite, Goten and Trunks seems to have been training as Gotenks, not separately. It seemed, to me at least, that Trunks and Goten gained little power during their RoSaT training but that Gotenks' increased immensely.

Good point, though I wonder if or how that would actually work. I know with Fusion, the result is quite a good deal more than just the sum of the two parts, but Gotenks' power upon being formed is still dependent on how much Goten and Trunks have, right? Assuming Gotenks does, or can, train to increase his overall strength, would any of it carry back down into Goten and Trunks?

Although it's hard to determine because the two of them never fought as themselves instead of Gotenks, I agree that Goten and Trunks didn't seem to have gotten any stronger. Plus, as far as I could tell, all Gotenks seemed to have accomplished in the room was coming up with a bunch of new attacks, and achieving Super Saiyan 3. The latter of which looks to me like it was the sole source of any new strength for him.


Regardless, he still couldn't hold a candle to Gogeta.

[vicdmx]

Not quite, Goten and Trunks seems to have been training as Gotenks, not separately. It seemed, to me at least, that Trunks and Goten gained little power during their RoSaT training but that Gotenks' increased immensely.

Good point, though I wonder if or how that would actually work. I know with Fusion, the result is quite a good deal more than just the sum of the two parts, but Gotenks' power upon being formed is still dependent on how much Goten and Trunks have, right? Assuming Gotenks does, or can, train to increase his overall strength, would any of it carry back down into Goten and Trunks?

Although it's hard to determine because the two of them never fought as themselves instead of Gotenks, I agree that Goten and Trunks didn't seem to have gotten any stronger. Plus, as far as I could tell, all Gotenks seemed to have accomplished in the room was coming up with a bunch of new attacks, and achieving Super Saiyan 3. The latter of which looks to me like it was the sole source of any new strength for him.


Regardless, he still couldn't hold a candle to Gogeta.

I now think that Gogeta wins but i think Gotenks would give him a good fight Goku i think stated that Gotenks would surpass him and be the future.


So don´t underestimate Gotenks.

[The Madness]

Not quite, Goten and Trunks seems to have been training as Gotenks, not separately. It seemed, to me at least, that Trunks and Goten gained little power during their RoSaT training but that Gotenks' increased immensely.

Good point, though I wonder if or how that would actually work. I know with Fusion, the result is quite a good deal more than just the sum of the two parts, but Gotenks' power upon being formed is still dependent on how much Goten and Trunks have, right? Assuming Gotenks does, or can, train to increase his overall strength, would any of it carry back down into Goten and Trunks?

Although it's hard to determine because the two of them never fought as themselves instead of Gotenks, I agree that Goten and Trunks didn't seem to have gotten any stronger. Plus, as far as I could tell, all Gotenks seemed to have accomplished in the room was coming up with a bunch of new attacks, and achieving Super Saiyan 3. The latter of which looks to me like it was the sole source of any new strength for him.


Regardless, he still couldn't hold a candle to Gogeta.

Full agreed! The fusion is more than the sum of it's parts, that much is obvious. But when we're taking into account that it's the same technique, they must therefore get the same "boost" as anyone else.

I think Goten and Trunks did get stronger, but it wasn't enough. A year of straight training will increase your strength dramatically whoever you are. And add Goten's motivation due to his mother being killed.

If Gotenks himself trained I don't think it'd have as much of an impact as if Goten and Trunks trained individually IMO. But it's purely that; opinion. We'll never know any other way.

I now think that Gogeta wins but i think Gotenks would give him a good fight Goku i think stated that Gotenks would surpass him and be the future.


So don´t underestimate Gotenks.

He was the future, and he was powerful. But as far as Goku knew, everyone he could fuse with was dead, or simply too weak. Gotenks was the future. But the future changed.

[Kaboom]

I now think that Gogeta wins but I think Gotenks would give him a good fight. I think Goku stated that Gotenks would surpass him and be the future.

...And he DID surpass him. Gotenks was a good deal more powerful than Goku on his own. But Goku and Vegeta are each a LOT more powerful than Goten or Trunks, meaning that Gogeta is similarly FAR more powerful than Gotenks. Obscenely more. "No contest" more.

So don´t underestimate Gotenks.

Believe me, I don't. Just make sure you don't underestimate Gogeta, either.

[vicdmx]

Not quite, Goten and Trunks seems to have been training as Gotenks, not separately. It seemed, to me at least, that Trunks and Goten gained little power during their RoSaT training but that Gotenks' increased immensely.

Good point, though I wonder if or how that would actually work. I know with Fusion, the result is quite a good deal more than just the sum of the two parts, but Gotenks' power upon being formed is still dependent on how much Goten and Trunks have, right? Assuming Gotenks does, or can, train to increase his overall strength, would any of it carry back down into Goten and Trunks?

Although it's hard to determine because the two of them never fought as themselves instead of Gotenks, I agree that Goten and Trunks didn't seem to have gotten any stronger. Plus, as far as I could tell, all Gotenks seemed to have accomplished in the room was coming up with a bunch of new attacks, and achieving Super Saiyan 3. The latter of which looks to me like it was the sole source of any new strength for him.


Regardless, he still couldn't hold a candle to Gogeta.

Full agreed! The fusion is more than the sum of it's parts, that much is obvious. But when we're taking into account that it's the same technique, they must therefore get the same "boost" as anyone else.

I think Goten and Trunks did get stronger, but it wasn't enough. A year of straight training will increase your strength dramatically whoever you are. And add Goten's motivation due to his mother being killed.

If Gotenks himself trained I don't think it'd have as much of an impact as if Goten and Trunks trained individually IMO. But it's purely that; opinion. We'll never know any other way.

I now think that Gogeta wins but i think Gotenks would give him a good fight Goku i think stated that Gotenks would surpass him and be the future.


So don´t underestimate Gotenks.

He was the future, and he was powerful. But as far as Goku knew, everyone he could fuse with was dead, or simply too weak. Gotenks was the future. But the future changed.

Yeah i agree with you the future changed big time with Goku´s fusion with Vegeta.

[vicdmx]

I now think that Gogeta wins but I think Gotenks would give him a good fight. I think Goku stated that Gotenks would surpass him and be the future.

...And he DID surpass him. Gotenks was a good deal more powerful than Goku on his own. But Goku and Vegeta are each a LOT more powerful than Goten or Trunks, meaning that Gogeta is similarly FAR more powerful than Gotenks. Obscenely more. "No contest" more.

So don´t underestimate Gotenks.

Believe me, I don't. Just make sure you don't underestimate Gogeta, either.

No contest? don´t get so far with that you even say that Gotenks could beat Goku alone but with the fusion with Vegeta he would beat Gotenks by a little bit not by no contest.

So your just saying that Gotenks>Goku but Vegeta and Goku>Gotenks okay now has vegeta has joined in Gogeta is formed of course so i think that with vegeta´s power Gotenks would be defeated but not by no contest has i said Gotenks would put a good fight and give gogeta the fight to him.

[desirecampbell]

There's really no debate here: Gogeta should be as as powerful as Vegetto (less-powerful, but not signifigantly so), and Vegetto is clearly stronger than Gotenks.

[The Madness]

OK, lets look at this a different way.

So a Metamorese fusion is basically 1 + 1 x whatever (as a theory).

So if we take the multiplier away and halve it, we're left with one half of the fusion, say Goku and Goten for the sake of argument.

So basically we have (M)SSJ Goku versus SSJ3 Goten.

Can we see Goku winning that bout? It's basically the same.

This is of course hinging on the idea that the fusion treats everyone the same.

[vicdmx]

There's really no debate here: Gogeta should be as as powerful as Vegetto (less-powerful, but not signifigantly so), and Vegetto is clearly stronger than Gotenks.

Vegetto>>Gogeta>Gotenks.

For me.

[vicdmx]

OK, lets look at this a different way.

So a Metamorese fusion is basically 1 + 1 x whatever (as a theory).

So if we take the multiplier away and halve it, we're left with one half of the fusion, say Goku and Goten for the sake of argument.

So basically we have (M)SSJ Goku versus SSJ3 Goten.

Can we see Goku winning that bout? It's basically the same.

This is of course hinging on the idea that the fusion treats everyone the same.

SSJ3 Goten>>>>SSJ Goku of course.
But we can´t say that SSJ3 Gotenks>SSJ Gogeta even though SSJ3>SSJ.
Oh and i forgot to point out that Gotenks is very cocky and childish and Gogeta was damn serious when he fought Janemba I don´t think Gogeta would mess around.

[The Madness]

There's really no debate here: Gogeta should be as as powerful as Vegetto (less-powerful, but not signifigantly so), and Vegetto is clearly stronger than Gotenks.

Vegetto>>Gogeta>Gotenks.

For me.

Vegetto = Gogeta > Gotenks.

And lets not bring personalities into this. This is on power alone really.

[Kaboom]

Erm, first off, please don't resort to the "equations" to make your points... They're kind of annoying, and we've already had a recent thread similar to this one devolve to nothing but those comparisons and get locked because of it.

Anyway, vicdmx, I think you're severely underestimating just how much more crazy-powerful Vegetto (and thus Gogeta as well) is compared to everyone else in the series. The same way Goku and Vegeta are each a lot stronger than their sons (even factoring in transformations), their Fusions will be just as powerful next to each other as well.

When all else fails, one can resolve these things by plainly laying it out and comparing fights. Let's take a simpler look at this that way. This is all how it happened, straight from the manga.

• At SSj3, Gotenks pretty much matched Super Buu. He was maybe slightly more powerful, but for all intents and purposes, they were even. Gotenks took just as much of a beating as he dished out. He eventually wore Buu out, but he never had any significant advantage.
  
  Then "Mystic" Gohan came along and completely pummeled Buu. Buu couldn't touch him. He was a big pink punching bag. Gohan was way more powerful than either Buu OR SSj3 Gotenks.
  
  Then Buu absorbed Gohan. So now that's his own power (about the same as Gotenks') PLUS Gohan's, which is a good deal more than Gotenks. Next to this Buu, Gotenks is already nothing.
  
  Then we have Vegetto, the combination of Goku and Vegeta, each of which are LEAGUES ahead of the kids in power. Vegetto is practically omnipotent, and Gohan-Buu is helpless against him. He can't hurt him in the slightest, and Vegetto just laughs off anything he does, making fun of him all the time. Even as a piece of candy, Vegetto easily mauls Buu. Being essentially the same person, Gogeta is just as powerful, and would undoubtedly do the same.

I hope that got the point across. The main thing to remember is that, with or without transformations, Goku and Vegeta are WAY more powerful than Goten or Trunks, and that is reflected in the Fusions.

Don't get me wrong; I like Gotenks, he's a very cool and fun character, and kicks a lot of ass. But compared to Vegetto (and thusly, Gogeta), the most powerful character in the entire series by a huge margin, Gotenks is like a bug.

[The Madness]

Erm, first off, please don't resort to the "equations" to make your points... They're kind of annoying, and we've already had a recent thread similar to this one devolve to nothing but those comparisons and get locked because of it.

Anyway, vicdmx, I think you're severely underestimating just how much more crazy-powerful Vegetto (and thus Gogeta as well) is compared to everyone else in the series. The same way Goku and Vegeta are each a lot stronger than their sons (even factoring in transformations), their Fusions will be just as powerful next to each other as well.

When all else fails, one can resolve these things by plainly laying it out and comparing fights. Let's take a simpler look at this that way. This is all how it happened, straight from the manga.

• At SSj3, Gotenks pretty much matched Super Buu. He was maybe slightly more powerful, but for all intents and purposes, they were even. Gotenks took just as much of a beating as he dished out. He eventually wore Buu out, but he never had any significant advantage.
  
  Then "Mystic" Gohan came along and completely pummeled Buu. Buu couldn't touch him. He was a big pink punching bag. Gohan was way more powerful than either Buu OR SSj3 Gotenks.
  
  Then Buu absorbed Gohan. So now that's his own power (about the same as Gotenks') PLUS Gohan's, which is a good deal more than Gotenks. Next to this Buu, Gotenks is already nothing.
  
  Then we have Vegetto, the combination of Goku and Vegeta, each of which are LEAGUES ahead of the kids in power. Vegetto is practically omnipotent, and Gohan-Buu is helpless against him. He can't hurt him in the slightest, and Vegetto just laughs off anything he does, making fun of him all the time. Even as a piece of candy, Vegetto easily mauls Buu. Being essentially the same person, Gogeta is just as powerful, and would undoubtedly do the same.

I hope that got the point across. The main thing to remember is that, with or without transformations, Goku and Vegeta are WAY more powerful than Goten or Trunks, and that is reflected in the Fusions.

Don't get me wrong; I like Gotenks, he's a very cool and fun character, and kicks a lot of ass. But compared to Vegetto (and thusly, Gogeta), the most powerful character in the entire series by a huge margin, Gotenks is like a bug.

Apologies. Check the post count - I'm new here.

Anyways, back on topic.

Yes, Vegetto is the single most powerful character in the whole of DB. And Gogeta would be just as powerful. Nothing puts Gogeta lower than Vegetto.

[vicdmx]

Erm, first off, please don't resort to the "equations" to make your points... They're kind of annoying, and we've already had a recent thread similar to this one devolve to nothing but those comparisons and get locked because of it.

Anyway, vicdmx, I think you're severely underestimating just how much more crazy-powerful Vegetto (and thus Gogeta as well) is compared to everyone else in the series. The same way Goku and Vegeta are each a lot stronger than their sons (even factoring in transformations), their Fusions will be just as powerful next to each other as well.

When all else fails, one can resolve these things by plainly laying it out and comparing fights. Let's take a simpler look at this that way. This is all how it happened, straight from the manga.

• At SSj3, Gotenks pretty much matched Super Buu. He was maybe slightly more powerful, but for all intents and purposes, they were even. Gotenks took just as much of a beating as he dished out. He eventually wore Buu out, but he never had any significant advantage.
  
  Then "Mystic" Gohan came along and completely pummeled Buu. Buu couldn't touch him. He was a big pink punching bag. Gohan was way more powerful than either Buu OR SSj3 Gotenks.
  
  Then Buu absorbed Gohan. So now that's his own power (about the same as Gotenks') PLUS Gohan's, which is a good deal more than Gotenks. Next to this Buu, Gotenks is already nothing.
  
  Then we have Vegetto, the combination of Goku and Vegeta, each of which are LEAGUES ahead of the kids in power. Vegetto is practically omnipotent, and Gohan-Buu is helpless against him. He can't hurt him in the slightest, and Vegetto just laughs off anything he does, making fun of him all the time. Even as a piece of candy, Vegetto easily mauls Buu. Being essentially the same person, Gogeta is just as powerful, and would undoubtedly do the same.

I hope that got the point across. The main thing to remember is that, with or without transformations, Goku and Vegeta are WAY more powerful than Goten or Trunks, and that is reflected in the Fusions.

Don't get me wrong; I like Gotenks, he's a very cool and fun character, and kicks a lot of ass. But compared to Vegetto (and thusly, Gogeta), the most powerful character in the entire series by a huge margin, Gotenks is like a bug.

Look i agree with you about Gogeta being more powerful than Gotenks but your saying that Gotenks is a bug okay gogeta would beat Gotenks but dont call gotenks a bug.

[VegettoEX]

Locked because it's become a pointless conversation and I can't waste any more time correcting grammar in this thread. Please take the hint. Please.