"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[LightBing]

I hope Toyotarõ doesn't forget Spirit Fission and the advanced ki control that Goku lacks.

I love the idea of branching paths and find it interesting Vegeta going the "Hakai" path. But don't throw away the concept immediately for a new one.

[Kinokima]

UI or actually back up his own claims that he's a prodigy who needs no mentor and invent his own way.

Now he's choosing to study under the guy who ordered the extermination of his people instead of the Angel that taught him.

And he's choosing to study a tier of techniques below the angels hoping that somehow makes him surpass Angel techniqes.

And now he's struggling to Hakai a pebble when Goku Hakai'd half of Merged Zamasu with no established training or established as having ever seen it before. It was never set up.

A couple things:

Part of Vegeta's character is being 2nd banana to Goku. That's been well established in every arc since their first encounter, and was outright stated by Vegeta in the Boo arc. He'll always try to be number one, but so far, he's always failed in the end.

Goku utilized Hakai (a different application) pretty well during the Future Trunks arc. You can say Goku utilized it better than Vegeta on his first time....that may be true. We don't know if Goku practiced Hakai before using it against Zamasu. We don't know if the version he was using is easier or more difficult than the explosive version Vegeta is learning now. Let's just say they're equal and Goku succeeded just by observing Beerus...so what? Just because Goku did better on his first try, or is better suited to the technique, that doesn't mean Vegeta can't do better with some training. Vegeta was stronger than Goku at birth, but look at them now.

Goku said he messed up the technique. We know he did it slow relative to Beerus, and it didn't succeed in defeating Zamasu. He also didn't know the fundamentals of the technique, so maybe he was simply doing a cheap imitation, like Kame-sen'nin's Migatte no Gokui.

Goku thinks Hakai is "horrible". He hates Beerus taking delight in Destruction. Even if Goku would make a good Hakaishin based on his ability, his personality is opposed to the technique (and the position), so it's not a good fit. He said the Mafuba didn't suit him, either.

I don’t think making Vegeta “look bad” to make Goku “look good” is good writing. But I also don’t think that is what Toyo is doing here.

I do agree that Vegeta’s role in the story is not to surpass Goku as much as he may wish it. Then again Vegeta keeps growing in his pursuit of chasing Goku so it probably would not be a good thing for Vegeta to truly surpass Goku.

[Magnificent Ponta]

I hope Toyotarõ doesn't forget Spirit Fission and the advanced ki control that Goku lacks.

I love the idea of branching paths and find it interesting Vegeta going the "Hakai" path. But don't throw away the concept immediately for a new one.

I get the feeling that Spirit Control has finished its outings, since its chief character-based purpose pursued the line of Vegeta being off-balance and 'in his own way'. The idea of Vegeta inhibiting himself in some way is continuing in this arc, but its linkage to Hakai seems to be playing the role this time, so I doubt we'll see any of the stuff that was linked to the previous step along this line.

I'd be happy to be wrong, though, as I enjoyed that aspect of the Moro arc (actually, all of the Yardratian stuff).

[DiscountDabi]

Saiyan Scholars Video on Granolah and his final conclusion of what it means is similar to my idea, with a bit more detail.

Basically the idea is that Granolah to gain this strength needs to give up some of his life force as the condition. In this sense the amount of time that it would have taken him to get that strong on his own with training and aged him up. This being the reason why his hair is so long.

Edit: As a Little Add-on, If Vegeta Mixed Spirit Fission with Hakai it would be devistating. Imagine him punching the energy out of you while he destroys it so you can’t get it back.

[caire]

Maybe it's a little early to say, but the juxtaposition between Vegeta and Granolah again seems suggestive here, and I quite like it:

As a brief note following the themes you discuss here, I kind of like how it's physically represented as well, with both of them attempting to demonstrate their newfound strength on rocks/pebbles. Even though vegeta only successfully manages to Hakai a tiny pebble, he's at least doing it the right way (as you mention); it'll be interesting to see what happens when Granola tries to crush this rock. I feel like the flaws in his plan might become evident, or at least be hinted at, when we see the results of his attempt, considering this seems to be a pretty direct comparison.

[Kinokima]

Maybe it's a little early to say, but the juxtaposition between Vegeta and Granolah again seems suggestive here, and I quite like it:

As a brief note following the themes you discuss here, I kind of like how it's physically represented as well, with both of them attempting to demonstrate their newfound strength on rocks/pebbles. Even though vegeta only successfully manages to Hakai a tiny pebble, he's at least doing it the right way (as you mention); it'll be interesting to see what happens when Granola tries to crush this rock. I feel like the flaws in his plan might become evident, or at least be hinted at, when we see the results of his attempt, considering this seems to be a pretty direct comparison.

I think early on Granolah’s method to get stronger quickly will seem to benefit him otherwise he won’t be a worthy opponent but in the long run it will probably lead to his downfall

I am not sure how Vegeta will play into this. I just hope whatever he learns is not countered in just 1/2 a chapter again lol

But I do like that both Goku & Vegeta are training to become stronger and not taking the easy way out like Granolah. Not that Granolah is evil and unlike Moro I assume he will eventually see the errors of his ways. But I think he has to walk down the wrong path for a bit first.

[caire]

Maybe it's a little early to say, but the juxtaposition between Vegeta and Granolah again seems suggestive here, and I quite like it:

As a brief note following the themes you discuss here, I kind of like how it's physically represented as well, with both of them attempting to demonstrate their newfound strength on rocks/pebbles. Even though vegeta only successfully manages to Hakai a tiny pebble, he's at least doing it the right way (as you mention); it'll be interesting to see what happens when Granola tries to crush this rock. I feel like the flaws in his plan might become evident, or at least be hinted at, when we see the results of his attempt, considering this seems to be a pretty direct comparison.

I think early on Granolah’s method to get stronger quickly will seem to benefit him otherwise he won’t be a worthy opponent but in the long run it will probably lead to his downfall

I am not sure how Vegeta will play into this. I just hope whatever he learns is not countered in just 1/2 a chapter again lol

But I do like that both Goku & Vegeta are training to become stronger and not taking the easy way out like Granolah. Not that Granolah is evil and unlike Moro I assume he will eventually see the errors of his ways. But I think he has to walk down the wrong path for a bit first.

Yeah that's true. I'm wondering if it will be a bit of a fakeout - as in, there'll be some initial "drawback" that seems to be the result of the conditions he accepted, but he overcomes it fairly quickly, and then the actual condition isn't revealed until the climax of the final fight. I hope that isn't the case, since I'd want it to be won properly rather than Granolah suddenly getting screwed over just as things are getting interesting - but I feel like it's not outside the realms of possibility. I just hope Granolah survives this arc tbh. He's been presented pretty sympathetically and I definitely agree that he's not an out-and-out bad guy, so he probably will, but he's definitely prone to making some stupid choices.

Same, I feel like (as others have mentioned) it'll have to be nerfed at some point because being able to Hakai stuff at will is pretty OP. Still, we've seen several incidents of Hakai (or destruction energy) being overcome, so I feel like something similar may happen there. I'm slightly more interested in UI and how they're going to reflect this increase in "precision" in a meaningful way.

[Matches Malone]

Maybe it's a little early to say, but the juxtaposition between Vegeta and Granolah again seems suggestive here, and I quite like it:

As a brief note following the themes you discuss here, I kind of like how it's physically represented as well, with both of them attempting to demonstrate their newfound strength on rocks/pebbles. Even though vegeta only successfully manages to Hakai a tiny pebble, he's at least doing it the right way (as you mention); it'll be interesting to see what happens when Granola tries to crush this rock. I feel like the flaws in his plan might become evident, or at least be hinted at, when we see the results of his attempt, considering this seems to be a pretty direct comparison.

It will be interesting if Granola learns the error of his ways from a Saiyan of all beings, and the prince of Saiyans no less. I definitely think them training side by side is being done on purpose. In terms of the rocks, I think they're being used to show where they are now and where they will be in the future. Vegeta is starting small, so he can only grow from here, while Granola is starting big, which means he can only go down from here. This is shaping up to be a really good arc, I just hope it can avoid some of the last arc's shortcomings.

[Noah]

You know this chapter was somewhat interesting apart from some lame stuff like do we really need a fourth set of Dragon Balls to exist? And only needing two to summon the dragon? Anyway it seems to be implied that there is something like a "Dragon Realm" that I sure don't expect to be further developed like the Namekian Book of Legends, but still add some to the lore.

After having his wish fulfilled, Granola is show with a long hair, which is silly but still in line with DB tropes lol

Don't know why all sudden Beerus though it would be useful to tell Vegeta he ordered Freeza to destroy his home planet is not like he cared about the Saiyans at all, he being pissed to it is OOC... also I don't know if I like the line being presented here, like preparing Vegeta to be a GoD sucessor? Sounds much like a fanfic to me.

I had a really interesting idea for how this new dragon could work and it would make it unique but also incredibly dangerous. So next chapter the dragon would say: “Your Wish is Beyond my Power. However, my creator designed me so that if my power could not grant a wish, I seek out a method of granting it. I have found such a method. In 3 weeks time the power you desire will be granted to you. Your wish Shall be Fulfilled. Farewell.”

A Dragon that Seeks out a method to grant a wish is not only very unique but also incredibly dangerous and has major implications for use. It could really be a dangerous item to have around.

I do like your theory and your insights about this arc, but keep in mind Toyotaro is not that clever so you may be disappointed if it ends being vague and unsatisfactory.

Goku vs Vegeta seriously never happened so far in Super, and it's mandatory as Super is a revamp of the franchise.
A clash on the dicotomy 'light vs darkness' will be uncanny hyping.

Well yes, but actually no? There's no darkness in Vegeta anymore, also I don't think Goku vs. Vegeta III now would be that of a "hype" considering we see them picking up small fights throughout Super. Also we all know that Goku is vastly superior even considering the possibility of Vegeta achieving a power-up of some sort. The only way I could be interested in they fighting seriously again would be if it was like the last fight of their life in the same scheme presented on Dragon Ball Online.

I have no idea why you people care so much about other universes being used when U7 has been barely explored.

I guess people want to see characters like Hit, Jiren, Kefla etc again, or what fighters there are in the 4 universes that didn't compete in the ToP. Nobody wants to see fodders like Krillin or Roshi in action again, and people don't want Goku and Vegeta to get all the spotlight again.

Exactly and also what the hell with the "U7 has been barely explored"? We know everything about it: 28 planets, low life species, Freeza ruled all, killed the Saiyans, there's survivors and there's no one strong there that we still don't know... So yea, they could pretty much move on to another universe.

[ZodiacBeast]

Exactly and also what the hell with the "U7 has been barely explored"? We know everything about it: 28 planets, low life species, Freeza ruled all, killed the Saiyans, there's survivors and there's no one strong there that we still don't know... So yea, they could pretty much move on to another universe.

Honestly I wish that the TOP had ended with the participating universes being merged into one. That would have allowed for more characters to appear while still taking place in "Universe 7".

[Thani]

Honestly what really bothers me right now is that Goku and, apparently, Vegeta are now officially the strongest mortals in the multiverse. They are even stronger than some Gods of Destruction, going off by Jiren, unless that gets retconned as well. Would be hilarious if Jiren or Broly showed up again, defeated them both again, with Goku going on to say "Man, I sure forgot how strong he was!".

Not that I think it would happen, but who knows at this point.

Exactly and also what the hell with the "U7 has been barely explored"? We know everything about it: 28 planets, low life species, Freeza ruled all, killed the Saiyans, there's survivors and there's no one strong there that we still don't know... So yea, they could pretty much move on to another universe.

Honestly I wish that the TOP had ended with the participating universes being merged into one. That would have allowed for more characters to appear while still taking place in "Universe 7".

I'll be honest with you, I would personally hate it.

Mostly becaue I think it wouldn't change anything. They would still be forgotten because they're not the main cast. At least like this you have the excuse that, since they're in different universes, it would be too troublesome to think of a way to include them. It wouldn't be blatant lazyness from the writer's part.

[UpFromTheSkies]

I hope Toyotarõ doesn't forget Spirit Fission and the advanced ki control that Goku lacks.

I don't think he will forget Spirit Fission, but it's a technique with a very specific purpose so I doubt we will see Vegeta get an opportunity to use it often.

[Ilikepictures-meh]

Exactly and also what the hell with the "U7 has been barely explored"? We know everything about it: 28 planets, low life species, Freeza ruled all, killed the Saiyans, there's survivors and there's no one strong there that we still don't know... So yea, they could pretty much move on to another universe.

Honestly I wish that the TOP had ended with the participating universes being merged into one. That would have allowed for more characters to appear while still taking place in "Universe 7".

Honestly thought this was going to be the end game for the T.O.P arc, and was highly disappointed it didn't turn out to be the case

[GodVegetto91]

Ryokutya Chapter 70 impressions

!?
Easy. That's fine (sweat)
It's amazing, Axolotl

The explanation for the number one in the universe is interesting.
That's right
I lost rags

Vegeta, you're in the realm of the god of destruction if it's a super close combat, right? lol

Pretty interesting talk about Vegeta there..

As for those who are wondering what an Axolotl is.. They are referring to THESE real life creatures on which the Sugarian people of Planet Cereal are based!

[batistabus]

As for those who are wondering what an Axolotl is.. They are referring to THESE real life creatures on which the Sugarian people of Planet Cereal are based!

((I have one...))

Spoiler:

[PowerLevel Science]

I'm not understand any single word from Ryokutya. Never.

[caire]

((I have one...))

Spoiler:

Oh my word that is adorable. I've always found them immensely cool little creatures.

[Alruneia]

I'm not understand any single word from Ryokutya. Never.

Well, he does write his stuff in cryptic Japanese. He's intentionally being vague, and the translation to English usually doesn't help.

As for the axolotl thing, the new dragon's whiskers are also just like the gills of an axolotl. Judging from what we know so far, he may very well be referring to the dragon rather than the sugarians. But like I just said, Ryokutya is being intentionally vague, so who knows.

[OrangeBanana]

I'm not understand any single word from Ryokutya. Never.

Language is convoluted in Ryokutya land.

[DiscountDabi]

Ryokutya Chapter 70 impressions

!?
Easy. That's fine (sweat)
It's amazing, Axolotl

The explanation for the number one in the universe is interesting.
That's right
I lost rags

Vegeta, you're in the realm of the god of destruction if it's a super close combat, right? lol

Oh...Poor Vegeta


If what Ryokutya says is accurate, then Granolah is going to destroy him. Granolah is proficient in Sniping so he’s especially good with Long range Combat. This doesn’t bode well for the Prince.