Akira Toriyama getting cancelled (not really: contextless, disingenuous social media videos)
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Akira Toriyama getting cancelled (not really: contextless, disingenuous social media videos)
Some links discussing the matter
https://youtu.be/DyFuyyQ6tX8
https://youtu.be/SW1NgiWR5k4
So people are going after Toriyama for a response made in an interview 30 years ago. Essentially he was asked what type of old timer he would like to be and he basically said he would like to be like master Roshi and peep on his daughter in the bathroom. Another reason people are going after him is for a one shot children's manga he did in 1987, title lady red, that showcased a female getting raped in a cab.
Now, this info is circulating around social media sites and a lot of people are clamouring for his cancellation/removal from the DB franchise. Could this be one of the reason for the passing of the torch over to his son Sasuke toriyama?
https://youtu.be/DyFuyyQ6tX8
https://youtu.be/SW1NgiWR5k4
So people are going after Toriyama for a response made in an interview 30 years ago. Essentially he was asked what type of old timer he would like to be and he basically said he would like to be like master Roshi and peep on his daughter in the bathroom. Another reason people are going after him is for a one shot children's manga he did in 1987, title lady red, that showcased a female getting raped in a cab.
Now, this info is circulating around social media sites and a lot of people are clamouring for his cancellation/removal from the DB franchise. Could this be one of the reason for the passing of the torch over to his son Sasuke toriyama?
Re: Akira Toriyama getting cancelled
Interesting. Mind explaining exactly who "people" are and why they think that THEM suddenly discovering the existence of a well known interview and one-shot is some sort of massive deal that changes everything? Are they billionaire shareholders in Shueisha or something?
(also, Lady Red wasn't a children's manga)
(also, Lady Red wasn't a children's manga)
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Re: Akira Toriyama getting cancelled
Smh cancel culture is a joke like seriously.
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Re: Akira Toriyama getting cancelled
This is a total joke lmao. There’s no way Shueisha or TOEI would drop Toriyama because he drew a sexist manga in a bygone sexist period.
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Re: Akira Toriyama getting cancelled
Random people find and re-find these widely available, widely known, widely discussed interview comments and manga works over and over and over — which makes sense because there are always new fans coming in — but there’s never any *actual* action taken by anyone of any significance, generally because the folks are *so* new that they don’t have the necessary context to discuss these works… and/or because there’s not any actual action worth taking.
Cancel culture isn’t real: the subjects of actual, genuine criticism simply *don’t like* the fact that they’re (finally) being held accountable for their bullshit, and simultaneously, there are rarely (ever? at all?) any actual long-lasting ramifications even when they *are* called out.
See, incredibly relevant example in this exact authorial space: Nobuhiro Watsuki.
(If anything, folks should still be pounding down the tax fraud angle.)
(Final addendum: you can not like something, say something is really shitty, speak up about it, and it’s not “cancel culture”. I don’t want it to come across like folks shouldn’t and aren’t allowed to discuss whatever content they want. They can. It’s just… there’s nothing new to really say or discover here.)
Cancel culture isn’t real: the subjects of actual, genuine criticism simply *don’t like* the fact that they’re (finally) being held accountable for their bullshit, and simultaneously, there are rarely (ever? at all?) any actual long-lasting ramifications even when they *are* called out.
See, incredibly relevant example in this exact authorial space: Nobuhiro Watsuki.
(If anything, folks should still be pounding down the tax fraud angle.)
(Final addendum: you can not like something, say something is really shitty, speak up about it, and it’s not “cancel culture”. I don’t want it to come across like folks shouldn’t and aren’t allowed to discuss whatever content they want. They can. It’s just… there’s nothing new to really say or discover here.)
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Re: Akira Toriyama getting cancelled
You're making this a way bigger deal than it actually is.
Even searching Toriyama on Twitter doesn't pull up anyone talking about it.
Couldn't find anything doing a news search.
One or two people making Youtube videos about it doesn't equate to social media outrage much less canceling.
Even searching Toriyama on Twitter doesn't pull up anyone talking about it.
Couldn't find anything doing a news search.
One or two people making Youtube videos about it doesn't equate to social media outrage much less canceling.
Re: Akira Toriyama getting cancelled
"Cancelling" exists when it's like regular people losing a job at Home Depot because they said some genuinely stupid or offensive edgy shit in a tweet back in 2008 or something.
Rich celebrities are immune from cancellation and in fact ride the wave of infamy as marketing like Dave Chapelle or other hack comedians or D-list actors. Or Andrew Tate going on Tucker Carlson now.
Sometimes mid-tier people behave appallingly and stop getting work because people are disgusted with them and they are replaceable. That's just consequences to actions.
No one's free speech is impacted; no one has a right to a specific platform in perpetuity.
You can make an argument that media conglomerations and tech monopolies condensing all the platforms does kinda limit free speech. But that's a real issue and a left-wing one at that, so you won't see the alt-right morons crying about rapists not being able to voice cartoon characters anymore actually tackle those issues.
Back on topic...
Lady Red is stupid edgy humour that's inherently sexist but it's too stupid and cartoony to be shocking IMO. I can see it hurting or disappointing a survivor who was reading through Toriyamas back catalogue. I wouldn't cancel him for it but I wouldn't defend the work either.
The perv comments were obviously and clearly self-deprecating in nature. He's not a complete moron. There's 0 chance that was an actual declaration of intent to be a pedophile to his own kid in a public interview.
Rich celebrities are immune from cancellation and in fact ride the wave of infamy as marketing like Dave Chapelle or other hack comedians or D-list actors. Or Andrew Tate going on Tucker Carlson now.
Sometimes mid-tier people behave appallingly and stop getting work because people are disgusted with them and they are replaceable. That's just consequences to actions.
No one's free speech is impacted; no one has a right to a specific platform in perpetuity.
You can make an argument that media conglomerations and tech monopolies condensing all the platforms does kinda limit free speech. But that's a real issue and a left-wing one at that, so you won't see the alt-right morons crying about rapists not being able to voice cartoon characters anymore actually tackle those issues.
Back on topic...
Lady Red is stupid edgy humour that's inherently sexist but it's too stupid and cartoony to be shocking IMO. I can see it hurting or disappointing a survivor who was reading through Toriyamas back catalogue. I wouldn't cancel him for it but I wouldn't defend the work either.
The perv comments were obviously and clearly self-deprecating in nature. He's not a complete moron. There's 0 chance that was an actual declaration of intent to be a pedophile to his own kid in a public interview.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.
Re: Akira Toriyama getting cancelled
I don't think anyone in Japan, including Toriyama himself gives a crap, that the same 3-5 people from twitter/FB/TikTok/whatever are trying to stir up drama, over something that happened before any of them were born.
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Re: Akira Toriyama getting cancelled
Just because a 30 year old comic hurt some random SJW's feelings doesn't mean Toriyama is being cancelled.
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jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
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Re: Akira Toriyama getting cancelled
Want to pop back in and chime again that just like using "cancelled" unironically is usually a sign of general ignorance on the larger issues at play, using "SJW" unironically is also a really transparent sign.DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:28 am Just because a 30 year old comic hurt some random SJW's feelings doesn't mean Toriyama is being cancelled.
Really struggling to understand how it is that the very website that translated this interview and is the source of all these posts/videos is simultaneously lambasted as "the SJW site" and yet has no problem hosting open discussion on these issues while also not having a problem dismissing the disingenuous and naive contextless attacks on it...
It's almost like there's nuance and history to stuff and handwaving people with acronyms is a bullshit, coward move...?
As someone certainly not defending the content of the ancient remarks but neither wishing to hide them or especially needlessly stir any completely unnecessary analysis, the "lolz SJW" commentary crowd can piss right off thank you very much.
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Re: Akira Toriyama getting cancelled
That's just called getting fired. Getting fired for dubious reasons, but getting fired nonetheless.
Things get cancelled. People get fired.
Re: Akira Toriyama getting cancelled
I suspect that nothing will come of this but hey, an apology and promise to do better in the future would be nice.
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Re: Akira Toriyama getting cancelled
The one shot is extremely awful but did he real say that about him and his daughter? because if true I can’t believe he said that that’s sad and shocking.Seekeroftruth wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:13 am Some links discussing the matter
https://youtu.be/DyFuyyQ6tX8
https://youtu.be/SW1NgiWR5k4
So people are going after Toriyama for a response made in an interview 30 years ago. Essentially he was asked what type of old timer he would like to be and he basically said he would like to be like master Roshi and peep on his daughter in the bathroom. Another reason people are going after him is for a one shot children's manga he did in 1987, title lady red, that showcased a female getting raped in a cab.
Re: Akira Toriyama getting cancelled
Fwiw it was published in Super Jump. A magazine aimed at an adult audience.Seekeroftruth wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:13 am
. Another reason people are going after him is for a one shot children's manga he did in 1987, title lady red, that showcased a female getting raped in a cab.
Not saying rape as comedy is okay regardless of the audience, but it wasn't being marketed towards children.
I think it's because Akira Toriyama is 67.Could this be one of the reason for the passing of the torch over to his son Sasuke toriyama?
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Re: Akira Toriyama getting cancelled
It's bizarre that the videos maaaaaaaaybe sometimes show the name of the site, but don't tend to mention it, and even people posting here don't seem to know if it's real. Again, it's real, it's been translated here forever, it's old, etc. etc. etc. It comes from the franchise's first guidebook back in 1987:
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/adventure-special-toriyama-qa/
(I clicked it so you don't have to: the first video linked even literally says "SO RECENTLY AN INTERVIEW CAME OUT"...!!! This video has to be intentional, knowing instigation. Absolute bullshit. At least the top comments are smart folks.)
And re: Toriyama's son, again, we have almost no context about that comment, and the folks who shared it widely on Twitter don't seem to actually understand English that well, nevermind Japanese. Based on what we can tell from what was shared, it's that Sasuke was handling (some of) the day-to-day project management operations, not the creative stuff.
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/adventure-special-toriyama-qa/
(I clicked it so you don't have to: the first video linked even literally says "SO RECENTLY AN INTERVIEW CAME OUT"...!!! This video has to be intentional, knowing instigation. Absolute bullshit. At least the top comments are smart folks.)
And re: Toriyama's son, again, we have almost no context about that comment, and the folks who shared it widely on Twitter don't seem to actually understand English that well, nevermind Japanese. Based on what we can tell from what was shared, it's that Sasuke was handling (some of) the day-to-day project management operations, not the creative stuff.
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Re: Akira Toriyama getting cancelled
It should also be noted that the Dragon Ball Adventure Special was released on 18 November 1987—two years before Toriyama's daughter was born in October 1989. Still, what a weird, fucked up thing to say in a book aimed at kids.
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Re: Akira Toriyama getting cancelled
This is giving me Law and Order Rape man episode vibes.
Yea, this stuff is sketchy. Was it sketchy in Japan when the comments were made (I think there is an argument to say no). We are looking at other countries and applying "our" current logic and culture on them (espeshally when it comes to things from the past). How does Toriyama feel now, what are his current stances and how do they stack up against modern Japanese? Do we hold him accountable or Japan in general?
Toriyama has shown some personal growth (even it stems from public shame)
Source: Dreamland Japan by Frederik L. Schodt
Mind you we are (the U.S) are still selling a manga (and anime) of his that sexualized a teenage girl and shows her naked and putting her in sexual situations.
On a side note, I'm suprised the manga doesnt have a warning on it now like Kodansha did on their ditial re-release of GTO
I'm surpised we dont see warnings like this or Warner Archives relese on more anime/manga
Yea, this stuff is sketchy. Was it sketchy in Japan when the comments were made (I think there is an argument to say no). We are looking at other countries and applying "our" current logic and culture on them (espeshally when it comes to things from the past). How does Toriyama feel now, what are his current stances and how do they stack up against modern Japanese? Do we hold him accountable or Japan in general?
Toriyama has shown some personal growth (even it stems from public shame)
Several targeted artists in Japan redrew the offending images in their work. In the 1980s there was a brief boom in “cute,” African cartoon characters—drawn in the spirit of the inflatable black Winkie dolls once popular in America. Akira Toriyama, who had drawn four little “cute” African natives in this style, obligingly went back and transformed them into “cute” cats.
Source: Dreamland Japan by Frederik L. Schodt
Mind you we are (the U.S) are still selling a manga (and anime) of his that sexualized a teenage girl and shows her naked and putting her in sexual situations.
On a side note, I'm suprised the manga doesnt have a warning on it now like Kodansha did on their ditial re-release of GTO
I'm surpised we dont see warnings like this or Warner Archives relese on more anime/manga
Re: Akira Toriyama getting cancelled
You're being overly kind to a situation that really doesn't call for it. The comment was fucked up then and it is now, it doesn't need defending thirty-five years after the fact.eledoremassis02 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:44 am This is giving me Law and Order Rape man episode vibes.
Yea, this stuff is sketchy. Was it sketchy in Japan when the comments were made (I think there is an argument to say no). We are looking at other countries and applying "our" current logic and culture on them (espeshally when it comes to things from the past). How does Toriyama feel now, what are his current stances and how do they stack up against modern Japanese? Do we hold him accountable or Japan in general?
Mind you we are (the U.S) are still selling a manga (and anime) of his that sexualized a teenage girl and shows her naked and putting her in sexual situations.
On a side note, I'm suprised the manga doesnt have a warning on it now like Kodansha did on their ditial re-release of GTO
I'm surpised we dont see warnings like this or Warner Archives relese on more anime/manga
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Re: Akira Toriyama getting cancelled
Oh I agree it is, but again I think this is really an issue that takes aim at Japanese culture and what that implies and at what gounds do we have to make another culture change (where I feel that change need to come from within) *if that change has not already happend*JulieYBM wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:58 amYou're being overly kind to a situation that really doesn't call for it. The comment was fucked up then and it is now, it doesn't need defending thirty-five years after the fact.eledoremassis02 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:44 am This is giving me Law and Order Rape man episode vibes.
Yea, this stuff is sketchy. Was it sketchy in Japan when the comments were made (I think there is an argument to say no). We are looking at other countries and applying "our" current logic and culture on them (espeshally when it comes to things from the past). How does Toriyama feel now, what are his current stances and how do they stack up against modern Japanese? Do we hold him accountable or Japan in general?
Mind you we are (the U.S) are still selling a manga (and anime) of his that sexualized a teenage girl and shows her naked and putting her in sexual situations.
On a side note, I'm suprised the manga doesnt have a warning on it now like Kodansha did on their ditial re-release of GTO
I'm surpised we dont see warnings like this or Warner Archives relese on more anime/manga
Just for context, my post wasnt just about his quote but Toriyamas (or atleast 80s Toriyamas) and 80s Japan as a whole.
Last edited by eledoremassis02 on Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Akira Toriyama getting cancelled
This reminds me of Nick Cannon trying to cancel Eminem with that Foolish Pride track (which is almost as old as Lady Red) like it's a shocking and new revelation. Only difference is Foolish Pride is actually hateful and racist (on top of not being a very good song in general) while Lady Red is just tasteless dark humor.
Toriyama doesn't speak English so I doubt he cares about all this propaganda.
Toriyama doesn't speak English so I doubt he cares about all this propaganda.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.