Anyone shed more light on this-> Goku vs Superman

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:13 pm

mAcChaos wrote:Wait, so Superman is the one who's outmatched? I always thought Superman was just ridiculous, ie., had no flaws, so it was kind of a joke to begin with. Like, why a comic is there to begin with, I'm not sure, since I can't conceive of anything happening.

Superman has weaknesses
-kryptonite
-magic (which is why if babidi controlled him goku would be f'ed)
-solar eclipse (no yellow sun, no powers)
-lead (cant use x-ray vision through lead)

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:21 pm

And physical damage from beings on par with or superior to him. Post-Crisis Superman isn't quite as ridiculous as he was Pre-Crisis.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:25 pm

Well, I meant weaknesses that would come up in the context of the kind of fight we're talking about here. It's not like Goku's just going to whip out a hunk of kryptonite or start casting spells. The physical damage is the only thing I could see and would Goku actually be on par with him? I mean, if Superman can move planets then that pretty much puts him in a different world. Also he could probably move so fast that whoever he'd be fighting would be KO'd before they even realized a fight was happening.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:39 pm

Edit due to lack of proof and fuzzy memory- The Hulk's proven strong enough to give Supes a run for his money. The one victory for the man of steel was due to fan vote, and it was a horrible fight. And, of course, Doomsday beat him ito death (sort of). Doomsday's very Hulk-ish, and gave Superman no end of trouble.
And it is fairly subjective I guess, but remember Roshi blowing up the moon back in Dragon Ball? And Piccolo doing the same? THat's power in the hundreds to low thousands. I don't know if Goku could move a planet, because Dragon Ball doesn't have any situations that retarded. But he could certainly vaporize one with a wave of his hand by the end of the Freeza Saga, if nothing else. Now let's talk FPSSJ, SSj2, SSJ3, fusion, SSJ4...
Goku's pretty damn ridiculous himself. I think when he went toe to toe with the god-eating being that destroyed 3/4ths of creation, he proved that he wasn't just some moderately powerful martial artist that could fly and shoot energy blasts.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:50 pm

Sun_Wukong wrote:-kryptonite

Goku wouldn't know of, or how to get any kryptonite.

Sun_Wukong wrote:-magic (which is why if babidi controlled him goku would be f'ed)

Goku doesn't have any magic.

Sun_Wukong wrote:-solar eclipse (no yellow sun, no powers)

He doesn't lose his powers at night, inside a building, or underground - he wouldn't lose his powers during an eclipse. Even if the sun in the Dragon World didn't give him powers, Supes would still "hold a charge", and has done so before (in fact, this was for years).

Sun_Wukong wrote:-lead (cant use x-ray vision through lead)

This is even more useless than the magic.

There's also the light of a red sun, that'd take his powers away - but Goku, again, has no way of knowing about this and thus can't use it against him.

Honestly, I'd love to find a way for Goku to win, but there doesn't seem to be an easy way to do it. If Goku knew about Superman's weaknesses, he could easily (and near instantly) summon shenlong (to wish for the sun to turn red, the world to be turned into kryptonite) or get Mr. Buu to turn Supes into candy. But there's no easily defendable way for Goku to find out these weaknesses.

-edit-
Remember everyone, we're talking pre-crisis Superman here; post-crisis Supes wouldn't last a minute with just-introduced Vegeta, let alone Goku.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:54 pm

Desire, are you still stuck on having him fight Pre-Crisis Superman? Helll remember the Hulk's fight then? Angry, stupid (i.e. insanely powerful) Hulk wacks him in the chest and Superman just kinda stands there.

But, unless you want to use Superman-Prime, this would be a fight against Post-Crisis Superman. He's really tough, but he aint the same level of auto-kill that he used to be.

You even say on your site that you figure Vegeta with a PL of 18,000 could handle him.

-edit- I'm personally not talking Pre-Crisis. My anowledgement of its existence ended with that entire line of continuity. The various reintroductions of the last few years sicken me. The only currently existing being of that power level is Superman-Prime, who could probably have taken out Infinity Guantlet-wielding Thanos.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:00 pm

End-of-manga Goku could kill Post-Crisis Superman in seconds. Period. There's nothing Supes could do.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:07 pm

Yeahhh

To illustrate for our readers-

Post-Crisis Superman vs The Hulk

Pre-Crisis Superman vs The Hulk

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:09 pm

Pre-Crisis Superman isn't a character, he's a walking/flying cheat code. As cool as that may cause some people to consider him, because of it, he doesn't have any place in any kind of inter-universe matchup, just because of how universally ridiculous he is, like most other characters of that era.

It's not like "Bruce Lee vs a tank," it's more like "Bruce Lee vs Bugs Bunny."

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:28 pm

Hence my hatred of Superman-Prime. The guy single handedly punked the entire Green Lantern Corps for crying out loud.

Post by **Herms** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:46 pm

Onikage725 wrote:Goku's pretty damn ridiculous himself. I think when he went toe to toe with the god-eating being that destroyed 3/4ths of creation, he proved that he wasn't just some moderately powerful martial artist that could fly and shoot energy blasts.

Off-topic, but when did Majin Buu destroy 3/4th of creation?

Toriyama Boss · Post by **Toriyama Boss** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:18 pm

Goku > any superman, the facts are obvious if your a comic reader.

Adamant · Post by **Adamant** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:23 pm

Okay, so...
Babidi (who's dead) convinces Goku (how?) there's an eighth dragonball (why would there be one, and why would Goku need it) in another dimension (which means it wouldn't logically be a part of Dragonball Earth's set) guarded by some super powerful creature (how does Babidi know about Supes?), so Goku goes to that dimension (how?) and just randomly attacks Supes for no apparent reason (Goku wouldn't do something like that).

God, this reads like bottom-level fanfiction. How did this ever make it into a published magazine?

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:33 pm

I don't know, SSJ4 Goku might be able to do something against Pre-Crisis Superman. Though I don't see it going much better than Piccolo vs Nappa did. SSJ4 Gogeta, on the other hand, should be at least even with him.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:06 am

Adamant wrote:Okay, so...
Babidi (who's dead) convinces Goku (how?) there's an eighth dragonball (why would there be one, and why would Goku need it) in another dimension (which means it wouldn't logically be a part of Dragonball Earth's set) guarded by some super powerful creature (how does Babidi know about Supes?), so Goku goes to that dimension (how?) and just randomly attacks Supes for no apparent reason (Goku wouldn't do something like that).

God, this reads like bottom-level fanfiction. How did this ever make it into a published magazine?

I'd just say they met and wanted to have a friendly match.

Alright, that illustration with the Hulk provided above was useful. Could someone spell out a bit more how powerful Superman is? I mean, if the frame of reference is the Hulk, that still leaves it up in the air a bit if you don't know how strong they are. I was surprised by the statement that Saiyan Saga Vegeta could take him no contest. I get pre-Crisis Superman is basically God, but whatever comes afterwards is a mystery.

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:38 am

Could SS(J)4 Gogeta take PC Supes?

EDIT: Also, can anyone put up the pic that shows Superman holding a lifeless Goku in space? If you've seen it, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:39 am

Big Momma wrote:Could SS(J)4 Gogeta take PC Supes?

Vegetto could fold him up. Both of them. AT THE SAME TIME.

Genki-Dama · Post by **Genki-Dama** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:53 am

Rocketman wrote:
Big Momma wrote:Could SS(J)4 Gogeta take PC Supes?
Vegetto could fold him up. Both of them. AT THE SAME TIME.

No way, Mr. Satan would pwn them.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:40 am

Superman of the DCAU fighting at full power for the first (and so far) last time. DCAU Superman is practically Bryne/Post-Crisis Superman.

Take your pick. Each Superman's powers are listed.

SaiyaMel · Post by **SaiyaMel** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:45 am

A kind of off topic question - can Supes live without any food and water, like an Namek?