Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 16 - Official Discussion Thread

[dbgtFO]

Probably not intentional, but I really thought Degesu about to take off in that ship, holding baby Dende with that backdrop looked like Star Wars Episode II at the end of the film, where Dooku is confronted by Anakin and Obi Wan and then Yoda.

[Noah]

Still talking about the NEP, why is Glorio of all people helping in the battle against Kuu and Duu?

Wasn't Arinsu supposed to just show up and say 'Good job, Glorio,' then he bows to her and everyone makes that 'Oh, you betrayed us!' face?

I don't get any of this sh*t

[Zephyr]

Still talking about the NEP, why is Glorio of all people helping in the battle against Kuu and Duu?

Wasn't Arinsu supposed to just show up and say 'Good job, Glorio,' then he bows to her and everyone makes that 'Oh, you betrayed us!' face?

I don't get any of this sh*t

I'm sure his working for Arinsu will be revealed, addressed, and resolved very quickly next week.

[AliTheZombie13]

Prediction for the final four episodes:

17: They fight the Boo Brothers, and Gomah starts making things scary
18: They fight Gomah and turn Super Saiyan 1 or 2 by the very end
19: They continue to fight Gomah and turn Super Saiyan 3 by the very end
20: They continue to fight Gomah, use the join bugs to defeat him, wish to return to normal, and try to go home (until their plane breaks down just before the credits roll)

In the opening and ending, it shows Goku's adult body surrounded by white feathers, or Goku Child reaching/looking at said feathers.
I predict Daima will introduce at least one new transformation for Goku before it ends.

https://youtu.be/3Q6MswjwFpM?t=9

[JulieYBM]

My prediction for the final four episodes: more really bad pacing.

damn, talk about blue-balling a girl with that Hat Girl reveal.

I was thinking of all the people that said this last week. It was up in the air if it was Degesu or not and I think everyone may have leaned too far into one camp or the other before we really knew.

I think that it was a fairly safe prediction to make, given the context clues of the episode, as well as the whole, "Glinds aren't born with a gender/sex/whatever."

Also, Degesu doing eggy shit like, "I need to become a girl to convince this guy into giving me the Third Eye" is honestly just peak hilarity to me, since I've read dozens of stories like this (not to mention, written one).

[omaro34]

I found the Ginyu Force knockoffs to be pointless. If they weren't there in the story pretty much nothing would change. A lot of wasted time in Daima, unfortunately. Plenty of comedy to go around with the other characters.

[Mr Baggins]

Loved every second of this episode.

Now this is a proper start to the climax. The funny thing about Degesu betraying Gomah is that it actually does pay off what was foreshadowed multiple times previously in the show; not to mention his relationship with Nahare has been handled well in a very understated way, despite the series never having shown them face to face until now. It's not hard to tell that he truly cares about his brother, despite the path he's taken, and I love how Shin's answer to Goku's question perfectly contrasts his philosophy with Degesu's, as rulers. Daima's central theme lies in its criticism of self-serving totalitarianism and the caste systems that result from it, which will be fun to talk about after the show concludes.

And for additional contrast, Glorio, unlike Degesu, seems conflicted about betraying his own side. Excited to see the payoff for that one when he inevitably interacts with Arinsu next week. I, for one, find it refreshing that all the emotional buildup and pathos for these characters have generally been conveyed through emotions, gestures, and facial expressions in lieu of dialogue. It's probably the most literal interpretation of "show, don't tell" you can derive from the character interactions since... like, episode 1.

The humor remains top notch, but that's to be expected. The Gendarmerie Special Forces were funny as hell, and more importantly didn't overstay their welcome at all. It's not surprising to me that the hat girl was hired by Degesu rather than literally being Degesu in disguise. I wouldn't have minded the latter, but I honestly have no clue where people were getting that idea from.

If we're going to constantly compare this show to GT, then I might as well point out that Panzy is practically the antithesis to Pan in that she's actually a colorful and useful member of the group rather than a whiny, unlikeable brat that gets reduced to a glorified cheerleader later on. Enjoyed every one of her scenes here, including the quiet ones where she's just following the group. Speaking of, the castle has an eerie ambience to it.

Hell yeah! Can't wait for next week.

[The Iron Fjord]

A very necessary introduction

This was a weaker episode than last weeks spectacular episode, not the worst mind you but certainly is a bottom-tier ep. The Jobber Force expectedly fell flat, and the humor was pretty weak there. Degesu certainly is like his older brother when it comes to being a disappointment, spends half the episode cradling Baby Dende (doo doo doo doo doo doo) around, then getting knocked out like a chump. I figured he wasn't 100% loyal to Gomah, but his "betrayal" still felt stilted and rushed. Gomah's antics in the last 5 minutes of the episode saved it for me though, and Glorio using Hybis' hat had me thinking the little penguin guy actually did something for once. With Arinsu coming out with her boys, and the final Dragon Ball, and Gomah using the demonic MacGuffin it looks like the last four episodes are gonna be balls to the walls action. Still can't believe we're gonna be done Daima in a month, but it's been a hell of a ride.

[TheRed259]

Is it me, or the entire DB/Z recap was longer this time around? I think this is the first time Raditz appeared.

He appeared in episode 1 as well.

[IntangibleFancy]

Hold on, did Degusu send the girl to take the belt and then run away without telling her where he’s going?

[Zinnia]

then I might as well point out that Panzy is practically the antithesis to Pan in that she's actually a colorful and useful member of the group rather than a whiny, unlikeable brat that gets reduced to a glorified cheerleader later on.

I completely disagree with Pan being an unlikeable brat. Panzy is like 70 years old compared to Pan's 9, that's first. Panzy clearly has more life experience around her place, while Pan was on her very first adventure. Both have been scolding Goku for his childishness on their adventures, so it's not like they have nothing in common.

Secondly, Pan was useful as well. "reduced later on" ? She didn't want to hand out the Dragon Balls to baby-possessed Dende, being the only one who felt something is off. Then she helped him turn SSJ4 halfway through the series, then added her share of energy to defeat Baby. In Super 17's arc she defeated like all of the OG DB villains who came out of hell and maybe even Cooler off-screen.

If Panzy did that then you would be calling out how super useful she is, but since Pan did it, you probably don't even remember.

Very dishonest, shallow take of you.

[AliTheZombie13]

I completely disagree with Pan being an unlikeable brat. Panzy is like 70 years old compared to Pan's 9, that's first. Panzy clearly has more life experience around her place, while Pan was on her very first adventure. Both have been scolding Goku for his childishness on their adventures, so it's not like they have nothing in common.

Disagree on that, Panzy is still very much a child, or so I think.

Secondly, Pan was useful as well. "reduced later on" ? She didn't want to hand out the Dragon Balls to baby-possessed Dende, being the only one who felt something is off. Then she helped him turn SSJ4 halfway through the series, then added her share of energy to defeat Baby. In Super 17's arc she defeated like all of the OG DB villains who came out of hell and maybe even Cooler off-screen.

If Panzy did that then you would be calling out how super useful she is, but since Pan did it, you probably don't even remember.

Very dishonest, shallow take of you.

Now that, I agree. Pan in GT was an actual character, with an actual character arc, who was allowed to grow away from her bratiness as the show progressed.
While I do like Pansy and wish she could be more, she is very much just a Goku Cheerleader and the show is relegating her entire character to the Obligatory Pansy is Useful Moment of the Episode™.

She does like... one useful thing per episode... and that's it. That's not a character.
Lord knows if I was writing this show, I would give her more agency and be responsible for liberating the Demon Realm, and make her the new ruler after Arinsu/Gomah are defeated.

[JulieYBM]

Panzy is 82 years old, but that hardly matters because nobody acts their age in Dragon Ball, and the concept of acting one's age is nebulous at best.

[Mr Baggins]

Both have been scolding Goku for his childishness on their adventures, so it's not like they have nothing in common.

I don't think you could have missed that point any harder if you tried. It's exactly because they have similarities on the surface that I'm comparing the two to begin with, so erm, duh?

The difference is that Panzy gets shit done. Pan literally sits around crying for an episode and we're supposed to act like that results in Goku somehow receiving meaningful character development for a trait he's always had. Yeah, no, not convincing. GT is woefully terrible at genuine, authentic character interactivity.

If Panzy did all of what Pan did, I wouldn't like Panzy. Simple as.

[AliTheZombie13]

The difference being, the things Pansy does are utterly and easily removable and negligible. Oh no, she saved the falling Dende... In a cast filled with super-powered characters as fast as the sound who, I remind once again, can TELEPORT.

If Pan wasn't convincing Goku and Trunks to be stopping around to save the planets in GT, to bring Giru along, to rally the people against Lood, or to control Goku so he'd be back to his senses, everybody would be dead.

I know what I'm saying won't convince you in the slightest, but okay. Everyone has the "Pan"sy they deserve.

[Marty Kirra]

I was a very strong proponent of believing in ~the vision~ for this show as a fun adventure in a new setting, even though I was skeptical of reusing the "turn Goku into a child" plot element from GT. I figured that the reason for doing so was to sell the concept of Goku (and friends) having to overcome new obstacles and opponents without relying on transformations or "this form makes my number bigger than yours, so you lose!" writing that has permeated the series.

I don't understand why they've taken the direction they have. We're teased with Goku having to resort to using nyoibo, and its barely been utilized because turning him into a kid has barely affected his power. What was the point of turning them into children/mini versions of themselves? Week after week, any sense of threat that these new demon world foes could have is diminished because our cast is exactly as powerful as they were before. Why would I want to watch a fight that not even the cast is enjoying or taking seriously? We get it with the Tamagami, who exist to serve as optional boss fights with zero urgency because it feels like even Goku is bored in the coolest setting we've had in Dragon Ball thus far.

This episode might be the worst one yet. I'm okay with the Demon World Ginyu Force team being jokes, but surely there's a better way to write that than having Vegeta be bored out of his mind as he lethargically teleports and one-shots everybody? Degesu holds baby Dende hostage, and I'm just thinking...why are we pretending this is a threat? And I'm proven right moments later when he's disarmed by a funny hat. Was there any reason to think Dende was in actual danger? What are we doing? Is there any particular reason why, from a writer's standpoint, you would neutralize any kind of threat to the main cast? What is the point of exploring a new world if we're just going to sleepwalk through it?

I don't know what Toriyama contributed to this show. I thought there was going to be so much more of his signature charm here. It feels sloppy in a way that maybe I haven't felt since watching GT or binging Dragon Ball Heroes as my eyes melt out of their sockets. I could sit here and list a whole bunch of "why did they do this?" and debate on the merits of continually throwing anything interesting we could get out of Daima into the trash week after week. What lasting impact will this show have? Is it really going to be that Vegeta had a pocket SSJ3 transformation with a new design? Is that Daima's legacy?

Visually, it's stunning and the art direction is phenomenal. I'm just really disappointed.

[Hellspawn28]

I wonder if Degesu would get along with Zamasu with them being evil kais?

[Extreme_kai]

I knew that girl wasn't Degesu or Glorio, but the last episode did a bad job of explaining who she was. They could have at least added a small scene of Degesu sending her on the mission. Daima seems not to bother showing little things that would make the show less confusing for the viewers. Speaking of Desesu... What a nothing burger he and his siblings(Shin included) have been throughout this entire series. It's a shame...I love Glind/kai's, but outside of Zamasu, most of them don't seem to do anything interesting in the main story. I'm going to need Glinds to do more than stand around looking cute all day. Also, it's so pathetic how weak Degasu is. I'm sure the dude can't even make a small ki blast if he has to threaten a baby with a gun. Just, such a bad look for Degesu. Not only did he job in his own episode, but we learned nothing about him, besides the fact that "he wants to be the pirate king. Like him and every other antagonist in the plot.

Gomah becomes weaker Jiren. Seriously, didn't Dabara's father have the eye? He wasn't able to take out a single Tamagami, so I highly doubt Gomah has had a massive power boost despite the narrative making him seem intimidating. I'm just not buying Daima's fake tension. Let's just get this over with.

[AliTheZombie13]

Was there any reason to think Dende was in actual danger? What are we doing? Is there any particular reason why, from a writer's standpoint, you would neutralize any kind of threat to the main cast? What is the point of exploring a new world if we're just going to sleepwalk through it?

I'll take a wild guess here.
I don't want to be accusing the Daima writers or Toriyama from engaging in this, just saying this is a possible explanation for it:
Because Daima was made with a younger audience in mind. And as you know, "Kids are stupid and will just consume whatever."

[MisteryOne]

Much better than the previous two messy episodes, trough that's not saying much. The fighting choreography did feel extremely lackluster this time around however. The best thing out of the Ginyu lookalikes was the supermarket scene two episodes ago, other than that...they are kind of a cliche and unfunny thing at this point. I really was hoping for something more from them rather than...literally what all the random soldiers do, and then some generic Beerus-like ball. Alright. Try to disguise a filler better for Kami's sake.
Degesu went out too easy but I mean, I wasn't expecting much more from him. There has not been any real focus on him and he's very generic. Trough it does seem we are finally at the way more interesting climax with Arinsu and the Majins. Hopefully the pacing improves.

I do not understand why Arinsu didn’t tell Glorio about already having the Dragonball tho. Even if she didn’t trust him enough, what was she planning? At soon as they tried to fight the Tamagami, he would find out anyways. If he wanted to betray her, he would always be able to do so- they have 2/3 of the DBs anyways. I'm not very sure what the thought process was there. But I'm curious about finally seeing proper reactions about the whole thing.

I wonder if Degesu would get along with Zamasu with them being evil kais?

Frankly? It's impossible to tell bwcause Degesu is so riduculously generic. We don't even know what he was planning to do. Running away with Dende, sure. Where? A diffetent universe from U7? Because otherwise, why did he think the cast would not be able to track him down? If he wants Dende to create new DBs, he still needs to wait for him to grow up. And to become the Demon King, he would need to go back to the Demon Realm anyways.

Zamasu was an extremist that ended up completely paranoud about every other single god not being suited for their jobs, so I doubt he would work with Degesu. But even ignoring that, there is nothing saying Degesu would agree with his views- after all he says Glinds should strive for higher positions, but there is nothing above a -shin for them. He's such a nothing character we can't say for sure. It would be already a way more intetesting perspective tgan anything they have done with him.

Was there any reason to think Dende was in actual danger? What are we doing? Is there any particular reason why, from a writer's standpoint, you would neutralize any kind of threat to the main cast? What is the point of exploring a new world if we're just going to sleepwalk through it?

I'll take a wild guess here.
I don't want to be accusing the Daima writers or Toriyama from engaging in this, just saying this is a possible explanation for it:
Because Daima was made with a younger audience in mind. And as you know, "Kids are stupid and will just consume whatever."

People keep saying this, but the fact they tried to have Kid Goku nostalgia of all things, pole included, would actually aim for the oldest audience in the fandom that is familiar for the original DB arcs.