Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 19 - Official Discussion Thread

[nineko]

Or... you know... Nahare, who can teleport at will? lol.

To be fair, this became a thing only recently, thanks to Super: up to Z, even Kibitoshin referred to Kai Kai as "Kibito's technique". Since Daima seems to contradict Super every other day, it's unknown if this Nahare can perform Kai Kai or not.

[StaticMania]

The child designs will be missed with a heavy heart, apparently.

[Majin Buu]

Loved this episode.

Glorio's wish was indeed to turn everyone back into adults. That smile Glorio gave Goku after correcting him on his name yet again was nice. We get some backstory on him too, learning from Arinsu that he's a Majin from the Third Demon World that she took in. It's interesting that she describes that as a kindness on her end since knowing her, her reasons were likely self-serving. That being said, we know what The Third Demon World is like for those that live there because of the time we've spent there: It sucks. If it's not the ruffians stealing shit and causing fights, it's living under an oppressive regime enforced by a military police that shakes people down for gold and drains their freaking life force if they can't pay up- complete with being collared with a tracking device like a slave to boot under penalty of death. Because the show has established that life is hard in The Third Demon World, it's easy to see why Glorio would be grateful enough to Arinsu to work for her after she saved him from that life- and why he's very apologetic about betraying her. She fires him with little more than mild annoyance though, so his betrayal seems like more of a setback to her than a personal slight.

It's ironic though that according to Kaioshin, Arinsu likely created the collars used to oppress the people of The Third Demon World as that makes her complicit in said oppression. She probably earned Glorio's loyalty by simply removing his collar similar to what Kaioshin did for Panzy. The irony is that she saved him from a life she's partly responsible for making so awful in the first place. All interesting stuff.

Glorio returning to the group after the wish and Panzy embracing him while everyone else thanks him was heartwarming to say the least. I liked the "You did good my boy" wink Neva gave him, and Goku finally getting his name right was the prefect cap to his role in the story. Hybis had him figured out in episode 14: He's a gloomy guy, but also a good guy. I like Glorio.

We get to see Vegeta's Super Saiyan 3 as an adult. He still pulls it off, but just barely. I still like that he gets his own unique version of it, but his is starting to remind me of Beast Gohan's too big and tall hair and how it only sometimes looks fine depending on how it's drawn. I don't hate it though. He had a good showing against Gomah, but The Third Eye keeps keeping Gomah going as Vegeta gradually loses steam as Goku points out. I loved that Bulma got him to stop fighting by threatening to never bathe with him again (Implying that bath time is their sexy time). Hilarious.

I appreciate that defeating Gomah is gonna require a little more strategy than just beating him up, requiring that The Third Eye be removed from his head first. Like Piccolo said, this isn't the time to obsess over fighting. Kuu continues to show his usefulness to Arinsu by using his speed to not only get the magic item book, but to also dash through the book to find the info on removing The Third Eye quickly. Hit Gomah in the back of the head three times. I also love that it's Goku and Piccolo forming the plan to do this. They just slide into working together like is nothing to them- because they've done it before (even more outside of the series proper). It's always great to see them working together, it's easy to forget that they were once enemies.

The plan is for Goku to fight Gomah as a distraction while Piccolo knocks out The Third Eye. Goku pulls the same stalling with a Super Saiyan demonstration tactic he pulled in the Buu arc. I literally said "he did the thing" when he did that. But damn, Goku just pulls off Super Saiyan 3 so much better than Vegeta, even more so now that he's an adult again. This might be the best it's ever looked. Then he surprises with whipping out the new Super Saiyan 4, giving us our first look at it in adult form (him throwing off his shirt in the lead up was just simply put- badass).

I have more to say on the form this week. I haven't been bothered by the chibi designs at all up to this point, and frankly, I think the derision about them is overblown; but I think the chibi form of this new transformation did not do the form justice. It was not readily apparent to me with the chibi version that Goku's got huge ass ape arms in this form. That's an original take on the form that I can get behind and feels like a more substantial change than just changing the hair red. That that detail with the arms isn't apparent in the chibi form's design feels like a design fail on the chibi version's end and the only instance where I flat out think the chibi version is bad. The form simply looks better with Goku as an adult. Also, his mannerisms being subtly more ape-like was a blink and you'll miss it detail for me so I completely missed that last week. I do like that, it's another detail that makes this version feel more original.

We're set up for the final episode. I'm excited to see how this ends.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Fun return to their adult forms!

I do wonder exactly how much stronger they'd be considered now from when they were turned into kids. Seems like a decent boost, but also not hugely above what they were at during most of the series.

Also interesting to note how the Third Eye has made Gomah into a sort of Majin Buu light, as he has unending stamina and can shake off any damage he sustains.

But the real gold crowning moment was Bulma basically threatening to withdraw sexual privileges from Vegeta to get him to stop. THAT was some hilarious stuff!

[Makaioshin]

That was a great looking transformation scene at the end.

Glorio's arc is capped off in this. It reminds me a lot of the issues I had with DBS: Broly and SH where the character arcs are established and receive a heartfelt conclusion with anything in the way of substance between. I had thought this weakness was tied to the running time and DB/Toriyama being more inclined towards serialized storytelling but this show had ample time to build on these elements.

Gomah barely spoke in this episode. I get he is not a martial artist but they could still invoke some kind of passion. He is little more than a training dummy for Goku and Vegeta to showcase moves. It is funny at least how he keeps changing sizes. That is normal for tall characters but it is a bit ridiculous when he is a giant.

[tonysoprano300]

Excellent animation and character designs....but this was boring AF. I don't really understand the DB obsession with non-stop fighting that doesn't progress anything, the only substantive thing that actually happened was them getting their adult bodies back and that was at the beginning of the episode.

Also...being in a kids body does not make you weaker in DB. I wasn't sure at first but it seems like that's a discrepancy they've firmly committed to.

[PhantomSaiyan]

Finally rewatched this with subs and higher quality

I got really hyped. Vegeta's fight and adult super saiyan 3 was awesome. Even him starting to struggle against gomah was well done because it's made clear that vegeta was superior to him even in his adult base form (and this FINALLY gave us a good idea of just how nerfed they were the entire show), but the third eye just keeps powering him up and giving him infinite stamina, it's a pretty unfair fight lol. The final flash was cool as hell. Also the "why doesn't vegeta use ssj3 in super" is pretty self explanatory imo, first of all, in the second arc he already had ss blue, and second, it drains ki like crazy, but we all already knew that.

Bulma and Vegeta's bath moment was PURE GOLD lol probably my favorite gag of the daima so far.

Seeing everyone back as adults is refreshing. I liked their time as kids, but I have to agree with the ones in here that said that daima would have probably been appreciated by more people if they were adults the whole time.

I enjoyed the glorio stuff. Yeah there wasn't that much to him writing wise, but idk, he grew on me and the emotional scene of him being accepted back into the gang hit for me. It was also funny that he looked so sad thinking they would hate him for being arinsu's ally all along, not knowing that the z fighters forgave piccolo and vegeta of all people despite the much more horrible things they have done lol

Goku's transformation sequence was a masterpiece. One of my favorite pieces of animation and key art of modern dragonball, just fantastic.

Super Saiyan 4... I love how it looks in its adult form, I still prefer the gt design I think, but this isn't far behind at all, I love the big fists. However, the continuity problem...
I'm thinking of a few ways it could be reconciled, and no, I would hate a memory wipe like someone in here suggested. Horrible idea, I can't think of any way to make that satisfactory. Either this is a totally different continuity from super and dragonball will go down the marvel route of multiple iterations of the same world and characters, or goku will either run out of the power neva gave him to tap into that form, or it will be somehow tied to the demon real only. I can already vegeta being like "kakarot, what about that form?" like in the end of super with ultra instinct and goku being like "oops looks like I can't transform into it anymore"

Another thing, those damn Fusion Bugs. If they end up not being used, that's terrible writing, and really evil trolling on the writers part. Even if they get used as a gag. Some theorize it will fuse kibith and shin back, but wouldn't that just create a gogeta-vegito type situation? Potaras and Bugs are different, how could they end up creating the same fused being? But of course what most of us want to see is the bugs being used by goku and someone else, either vegeta or someone totally new. As simple and overdone as it would be, I'd still like it to be vegeta because that might mean that neva might give him the ssj4 powerup as well, and I can't lie, I definitely want to see how he'd look like with daima's ssj4.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I finally saw the episode...WOW. Why couldn't Super look this good ? anyway...

My ranking for Daima was a C as of last week's episode. If next week's episode sticks the landing, then it may very well move to a B. If Piccolo plays a key role in Gomah's defeat, then it will have made up for some of the show's shortcomings for me. I may be a Vegeta fan first, but Piccolo is an extremely close second, so fingers crossed he gets the respect he deserves.

Also, can we take a moment to appreciate how much better Goku's new form looks on him as an adult ? This episode is when the form should've made its first appearance. It may not replace the original Ssj4, but at least it doesn't look bad like it did on Kid Goku.

Another also, Daima gave Ssj3 its credibility back, and it was through Vegeta of all characters, the one who went 30 years without getting it.

Despite my many issues with Daima (which I will get into once it concludes), I do think this will be a respectful send off for Toriyama's legacy on DB, assuming it sticks the landing and doesn't crash and burn.

[IntangibleFancy]

I’m disappointed that Anrinsu didn’t beat up Glorio. It looks like neither her nor Degusu are making it to the games :p

But I’m optimistic about the next episode. I’m glad they’re adults again and that they got to squeeze in a fight for grown-up super saiyan 3 Vegeta. I just hope adult-SS4 Goku has a good moveset.

[Yuji]

Granolah had a clearly defined backstory

Having some detailed backstory means nothing if it isn't followed up on. Granolah's supposed heel turn at the end of his arc is completely offscreened and unearned, and the writing does absolute fuck all with him as a character after Gas shows up.

Glorio, in contrast, has more subtle bonding moments throughout the show but they're absolutely there, and continue long after he fights Goku. And this is standard Toriyama writing because he's never in-your-face or melodramatic with his character arcs. Everything here made perfect sense if you've been paying attention.

I'll take a million Glorios over a single Granolah any day of the week.

I'm not saying Glorio doesn’t have bonding moments, and more to you if they're enough for you, but I think it speaks to the show's detriment when the generic flashback scene where the double agent shows his feelings for the party he was supposed to betray includes Goku firing off a Kamehameha in lieu of, y'know, actual bonding moments. I'm sorry but that shows that they were far too few for the moment to have any impact.

[Vice]

I still don't know why they insist on wasting so much time with characters fighting so much in their base forms

[Cybersai]

Yeah, fighting in their base forms was never a thing in DBZ as far as I recall once everyone got Super Saiyan. They immediately powered up. Only exceptions was Gotenks fighting Fat Buu in his first stage without powering up but he was cocky and arrogant and thought he could do it without super saiyan, so it fits his character.

I'm trying to recall any other time Goku or Vegeta didn't immediately power up to Super Saiyan prior to Super, I don't think such a time existed? Whenever they were fighting in their base form it was because they ran out of energy, not because they started that way.

[tonysoprano300]

Granolah had a clearly defined backstory

Having some detailed backstory means nothing if it isn't followed up on. Granolah's supposed heel turn at the end of his arc is completely offscreened and unearned, and the writing does absolute fuck all with him as a character after Gas shows up.

Glorio, in contrast, has more subtle bonding moments throughout the show but they're absolutely there, and continue long after he fights Goku. And this is standard Toriyama writing because he's never in-your-face or melodramatic with his character arcs. Everything here made perfect sense if you've been paying attention.

I'll take a million Glorios over a single Granolah any day of the week.

I'm not saying Glorio doesn’t have bonding moments, and more to you if they're enough for you, but I think it speaks to the show's detriment when the generic flashback scene where the double agent shows his feelings for the party he was supposed to betray includes Goku firing off a Kamehameha in lieu of, y'know, actual bonding moments. I'm sorry but that shows that they were far too few for the moment to have any impact.

I agree, I did not buy that at all. But i already saw that coming based on last weeks episode so its whatever.

Reminds me of that scene in the 2016 Suicide Squad film where they all started calling each other "Family".

[Vice]

Yeah, fighting in their base forms was never a thing in DBZ as far as I recall once everyone got Super Saiyan. They immediately powered up. Only exceptions was Gotenks fighting Fat Buu in his first stage without powering up but he was cocky and arrogant and thought he could do it without super saiyan, so it fits his character.

I'm trying to recall any other time Goku or Vegeta didn't immediately power up to Super Saiyan prior to Super, I don't think such a time existed? Whenever they were fighting in their base form it was because they ran out of energy, not because they started that way.

They did that shit a lot in the movies

[Basaku]

That was a great looking transformation scene at the end.

Glorio's arc is capped off in this. It reminds me a lot of the issues I had with DBS: Broly and SH where the character arcs are established and receive a heartfelt conclusion with anything in the way of substance between. I had thought this weakness was tied to the running time and DB/Toriyama being more inclined towards serialized storytelling but this show had ample time to build on these elements.

Honestly, I think the big issue was in part that Toriyama wasn't writing it all himself and in part that the writers played it safe and didn't wanna step on anything Toriyama did. A series like this simply needs a strong singular showrunner of the whole thing who keeps the whole vision together and Daima (and Super) had probs too many cooks in the kitchen.

Toyo actually does better with these payoffs in the Super arcs he was mostly responsible for himself. Meerus' character arc is for one very competently executed from the narrative POV, with earned payoffs and stuff in between. Same with Granolah, Monaito, Elec&Gas relationship, even the Bardcock stuff. And the minor Superhero "filler" stuff for Goten & Trunks is beaming with good characterization and heartfelt moments that don't feel forced. But all these are a case of 1 person keeping most of the vision together

The child designs will be missed with a heavy heart, apparently.

Nah, especially since they weren't even good child designs DB already had but some weird chibi funkopop versions

Glad we done with that

[Mr Baggins]

I'm sorry but that shows that they were far too few for the moment to have any impact.

No, that just shows they weren't included in the flashback for whatever reason. There were plenty of scenes they could have shown there but chose not to, and we know this because people (bizarrely) complained about it just last thread.

If it were up to me, there wouldn't have been a flashback sequence at all because this would have worked just as well without one. I don't care for spoonfeeding the audience.

[ZombieVito]

I wonder if the fusion bugs are just going to be a gag. A way for Shin and Kibito to fuse again.

[SupremeKai25]

I wonder if the fusion bugs are just going to be a gag. A way for Shin and Kibito to fuse again.

My theory is that they'll eat the bugs to fuse back into Kibito Kai to align with BoG. Also, Neva will magically reverse Goku's memories or reveal that SSJ4 can only be activated in the Demon Realm.

You know what I've noticed? As usual the fandom jumps to conclusion and assumes Daima will contradict Super.

There's still one episode, LOL!

[Basaku]

I wonder if the fusion bugs are just going to be a gag. A way for Shin and Kibito to fuse again.

My theory is that they'll eat the bugs to fuse back into Kibito Kai to align with BoG. Also, Neva will magically reverse Goku's memories or reveal that SSJ4 can only be activated in the Demon Realm.

You know what I've noticed? As usual the fandom jumps to conclusion and assumes Daima will contradict Super.

There's still one episode, LOL!

Can't believe I can finally fully agree with a Supreme post

[Cybersai]

The only way they can fit everything into 1 episode is if Goku wipes the floor with Gomah within the first 8-10 minutes of the ep. Then the last 10 minutes are the resolution for everything, we still don't know what Arinsu or Neva will do after Gomah is defeated.