Dragonball Movie Update! What is UP with this?

[SSJ2bardock]

Maybe your standards are just that damn high ?

He also thought The Dark Knight was bad, too. I'm sorry, Desire, but knowing that has shifted my perspective somewhat, and I'm afraid I can't take anything you say about the DB movie seriously anymore as a result.

Still looking forward to DragonBall. Think I'm gonna avoid this topic until the next major news though.

Agreed, I respect your opinion Desire, but knowing that you thought Dark Knight was bad I can't take your projection for the movie seriously anymore.

[SSj_Rambo]

SSj Kaboom said : He also thought The Dark Knight was bad, too.

HUH!? Dude if you thought that was bad then tell me what you think is good. I have to experience something on that level. Seriously.

desirecampbell said that he thought it was/would be bad from the standpoint of a fan of the original storyline and the original comic book adaptation...or something like that. I agree that he does seem to be a little "picky" when it comes to liking a movie, but he did seem to have some sort of reason behind not liking The Dark Knight, and I respect him for that, even if it does differ from my personal opinion (I loved it! I loved it! I loved it! I loved it!).

As for his feelings towards Dragonball, I think that they are a little premature but still somewhat justified. Yes there is a good chance that the movie will be poor in our eyes (since we are members of the elite fan base ) but the film will have some very entertaining aspects (Piccolo) and probably some very nice references to the original story. Either way, I'm sure that the movie will look good to the eyes of the average person, since they will make up most of the films audience. I feel that even if the average person who watches the movie gets an inaccurate view on the show they will at least walk away with an interest in the show and perhaps an appreciation for the story itself.

[desirecampbell]

So do you think its going to suck in every aspect or is it just gonna be a terrible attempt at a Dragon Ball movie ? Elaborate.

Both. And they are connected.

First, I can only Yin-Fat and Marsters to be able to give good performances. The rest of the cast has no such luck, and while they could be great actors we really can't count on that. Further, James Wong has done little to suggest he'll suddenly be able to do a proper job directing a Dragon Ball film (his previous efforts are almost entirely horror/suspense pieces).

Secondly, we know it will not be a faithful adaptation. There's no debating that. And being faithful to the original source is an important component for an adaptation. And because of a change in medium, we can expect some changes but the one's we're seeing in this film are so vast they're nearly staggering. The setting is different, the plot is different, and the few characters that remain are different.
Because this is clearly an attempt at an adaptation of Dragon Ball and not simply an homage

No, an adaptation would be live action version of Dragon Ball. Still Dragon Ball, just live action. Sure, some things get changed, because it's unavoidable and adaptations are never perfect.
See: Pride and Prejudice (1813 novel) -> Pride and Prejudice (1995 BBC miniseries)

Using an existing story and characters as a base, but using it only as a starting point to tell a different story is best described as an homage.
See: Pride and Prejudice (1813 novel) -> Bride and Prejudice (2004 film)

Taking an existing story and dismembering it to a point where it is barely recognizable, is neither an adaptation nor an homage. It's a rip-off.
See: Pride and Prejudice (1813 novel) ->Bridget Jone's Diary (1996 novel/2001 film)

Or, in more direct terms: The manga -> the anime = adaptation; the Monkey King legends -> the manga = homage; the manga -> this live action "film" = total failure.

He also thought The Dark Knight was bad, too. I'm sorry, Desire, but knowing that has shifted my perspective somewhat, and I'm afraid I can't take anything you say about the DB movie seriously anymore as a result.

I enjoyed Dark Knight significantly more than Batman Begins. So much more, in fact, that not only did I sit through the whole thing, I was mildly interested in the outcome. The best thing about the new Batman movie is that Batman's not in a lot of it. Most of the scene's Bale's in, he doesn't say or do anything - it's like a friggin' godsend (to anyone who hasn't seen the movie, you know how Sabat's Piccolo voice is unnecessarily low and gravelly? Bale's "Batman voice" makes that seem like a smooth falsetto). Ledger's Joker was interesting and well played, the boat-climax was (though stupid) mildly intriguing, Two-Face's appearance was spot-on, and, uh, Bale was almost as bad-ass as he was in Newsies. Those are, in order, the best things about Dark Knight.

Dark Knight was a solid 6/10. It was way less-awful than the previous movie. Disagree? Tell me anything good about the movie. Anything.

[Shenron]

Yes there is a good chance that the movie will be poor in our eyes (since we are members of the elite fan base ) but the film will have some very entertaining aspects (Piccolo) and probably some very nice references to the original story. Either way, I'm sure that the movie will look good to the eyes of the average person, since they will make up most of the films audience.

I think the exact opposite : maybe some fans will like this movie because, hey, it's Dragonball, and it will be fun to see our favorite manga adapted as a movie, even if it happens to be a bad one.

But regular people, who don't give a damn about DB, what will they think ? Judging by the pictures we've seen so far, there's no doubt they'll find it cheesy. Look at Goku's gi. Look at Piccolo's minions. Look especially at the Budokai stadium. If it's not better enough after the post production, of course people are gonna find it ridiculous, even if it happens to be a decent movie.

Oh, and about this :

and probably some very nice references to the original story.

I still don't understand why it's supposed to be enough. According to some fans, the Spider-Man movies were not faithful enough to the comics. What would they think about this DB movie ?

I know it's different. I know you have to take some shortcuts, to make some choices. But I wonder about some of these choices.

Eh, I've heard other people say it too. But for the life of me, I'll never understand why anyone would think it. Live-action movie adaptations are kind of like a "hall of fame" thing for a series."

Do you mean the same Hall of Fame as Fist of the North Star ?

It's a sign that, "yes, this is an awesome story/franchise, and people love it so much that we, <movie studio>, feel it's justified to spend time, effort, and money to make a movie out of it.

That's true for old and well known franchises. X-Men, Hulk, yeah, for them, the movies are a consecration. But DB ? I don't think so. It's more :

"We don't know jack about this franchise, but people seem to love it so much that we, <movie studio>, feel it's justified to make a movie out of it before its success comes to an end".
It works with Cowboy Bebop, too.

[SSj_Rambo]

Yes there is a good chance that the movie will be poor in our eyes (since we are members of the elite fan base ) but the film will have some very entertaining aspects (Piccolo) and probably some very nice references to the original story. Either way, I'm sure that the movie will look good to the eyes of the average person, since they will make up most of the films audience.

I think the exact opposite : maybe some fans will like this movie because, hey, it's Dragonball, and it will be fun to see our favorite manga adapted as a movie, even if it happens to be a bad one.

But regular people, who don't give a damn about DB, what will they think ? Judging by the pictures we've seen so far, there's no doubt they'll find it cheesy. Look at Goku's gi. Look at Piccolo's minions. Look especially at the Budokai stadium. If it's not better enough after the post production, of course people are gonna find it ridiculous, even if it happens to be a decent movie.

I agree that judging by the pictures that have been released the film probably does seem a bit "corny" to the average movie goers. However, I'm fairly positive that actual Dragonball fans are 99% of the people that are looking at these pictures half a year before the movie actually comes out, so I bet that the pictures that Fox has released were released with us in mind, not the mainstream audience. I'm sure that once a trailer is released and more every-day people start looking into the movie Fox will start releasing some more exciting pictures that will appeal to more people. I have complete faith in Twentieth Century Fox that they will do whatever it takes to make this movie your stereotypical action filled fighting movie that will appeal to most Americans and earn enough to warrant a sequel...sadly.

[Raki]

I hope this movie is at least watchable. Still looking foward to see it, but I'm not sure in what way. Will it be a train wreck or a decent film. None of the other 17 movies stick to manga storyline, so this live action film not being totally based on the source material isn't a deal breaker for me.

[Tatsunoboshi Horoko]

Do you mean the same Hall of Fame as Fist of the North Star ?

I was wondering when someone would bring up that movie. Seriously, after I saw it, I kind of lost all hope in anime-to-live action adaptations.

[Kunzait_83]

Do you mean the same Hall of Fame as Fist of the North Star ?

I was wondering when someone would bring up that movie. Seriously, after I saw it, I kind of lost all hope in anime-to-live action adaptations.

To name the only really good to at least halfway decent ones that imediately spring to mind.

I also have a soft spot for the live action Wicked City, but I'm well aware that I'm in the minority on that one.

And as suck-ass as the live action Fist of the North Star is, with enough alcohol and the right group of friends, it's ideal MST3K-ing material (much like Dragon Ball: The Magic Begins is).

[Xyex]

Wow way to totally ignore what I just said. Seriously though why is it that every time someone says the slightest negative thing about this movie you, Xyex and Jappo feel the need to jump on them and cut them up ? Who made you guys the happy police ? If I feel like this movie is going to be terrible then that's my opinion. I'm not trying to force it down everyone's throat. Like you guys are...

I don't try to push anything down anyone's throat. I've got no issue with opinions, just with people who act like there's are 100% right. 'sides, if you'll note, my post to you was semi-sarcastic. Even noted that in the post so it would be clear.

I'm sorry, Desire, but knowing that has shifted my perspective somewhat, and I'm afraid I can't take anything you say about the DB movie seriously anymore as a result.

I've not put much stock in his opinion since he harped on Spider-man. He's too stiff about changes for me to put any weight to his opinions, we're too opposite in what we like.

Guys, this movie is going to suck. That's a goddamn promise. I'd love to be wrong here - but I won't be.

If it 'sucks' half as much as Spider-man I'll see it 3 times.

Like: based on how most of the recent Hollywood superhero adaptation films have turned out,

You mean like how Spider-man 1&2, X-men 1&2, Iron Man, the new Hulk Movie, Ghost Rider (there, I said it), and The Dark Knight were all awesome? Hell, based on the actualy comic to movie trend the only thing I'm concerned about here is how the third movie will turn out. But even then I still greatly enjoyed X-men 3 and Spider-man 3.

and the fact that almost all the information we have about the film so far are about weird pointless changes to the original story

So.... there weren't any tournaments in Dragonball? Goku never trained with Roshi? Mutaito didn't stop Piccolo originally? Roshi didn't die against Piccolo? Goku didn't fight Piccolo?

I mean, really, what changes do we know of? Movie starts at a highschool (there's a few obvious reasons they'd do something like that, none of which make the movie any different than the series). Mai works directly for Piccolo (as opposed to working for Pilaf who's forced into working with Piccolo). Mai can shape-shift. Gohan is killed by Piccolo (as opposed to it being Krillin, who it wouldn't make any sense to have in that role, and instead of Goku being the one to kill him, something that had very little impact on Goku or the series anyway). Hmm. That's all I can think of, actually. Unless the evil clones thing pans out to be true. And to expand on those points somemore.

Highschool Setting: A bit odd, I'll give it that. But it can lead to easy and quick character characterization for Goku. Easy to set-up a fish out of water vibe with Goku and the city (and common sense in general) in such a setting. Also allows for some quick and simple character introductions for the likes of Bulma and Chi-Chi. And based on the information of a 'fight' between Goku and 'Carrey' we've also got a display of Goku's skill and strength fast and easy. And let's not forget the plot tie-ins with information on the eclipse that's related to Piccolo in some fashion~ And then, of course, the school is dropped and forgotten for the rest of the movie.

Mai working for Piccolo: A bit odd, again, but understandable. She did, through a round-about means, work for him in the series. They simply expanded upon that and made her more bad ass. Which I find awesome. I always thought she was rather wasted as nothing more than a gag character. She's got the credentials for this kind of role, too. And they probably needed someone to work towards Piccolo's freedom. I think the nod toward early DB by including her is awesome.

Mai's shape-shifting ability: Alright, this one is very odd. But it was likely done entirely for plot purposes. Having her able to shape-shift opens up a whole range of plot options. And shape-shifting is possible in Dragonball so they aren't pulling it entirely out of their asses.

Piccolo killing Gohan: This changes two things from series. Who kills Gohan and who Piccolo kills. I've already gone over, extensively, my views on the exclusion of Krillin this movie. I find it logical and justifable considering the time constraints for the movie and the needs of the movie. Thus an alternate driving force is required. Gohan makes an excellent one. His death in the series only impacts the series by leaving Goku alone until Bulma finds him. There isn't even any impact on Goku himself when he realizes the truth. This is, IMO, and excellent solution.

The clones: If true this would make for an great action scene and a great characterization moment for Goku, if handled properly. As Akkuman's Devilmite Beam had no effect on Goku and showed just how pure he is, Piccolo's cloning powers could do the same here. This is something I'll have to actually see to draw a full conclusion on, but I see potential with it.

that FOX has pushed the film back to an Easter release (the vast majority of films released Easter weekend are sub-average, and the Easter weekend is seldom seen as a sign of confidence from the production house) -

The fact it was pushed back tells me they've got faith in it. Or they'd have finished rushing it out to market and we'd be gearing up to go see it in a few weeks. And buying the DVD in April.

[Chuquita]

But why Easter weekend? Why not the weekend before or after? Isn't it usually a bad idea to schedule a movie on a holiday weekend? How many people go to see movies on New Years' Eve or Thanksgiving or Halloween?


Now I have the urge to go look that information up. >_O

[Sebastian (SB)]

I think with all the various adaptations of recent comic book films stem from the fact that that characters like Spider-Man, Batman, and the majority of popular comic book heroes have had various takes from different artists throughout the years. Often even more so that they've evolved in the medium over the years and don't seem have an actual ending to their stories. So I think it's understandable that you'd have different takes on these characters. Infact, the only comic book based movies of recent memory the generally stay faithful to its source material would be 300 and Sin City by Frank Miller. Why is that? I'd like to think it's because their stories generally have a beginning and end. So there's really no need for changes. One can argue that the characters in these characters don't hold iconic status like the DC and Marvel Heroes or even as broadly recognized, so the stories don't hold up over the years, despite being held in high esteem by critics and fans alike. If the current Watchmen film in production is any evidence, there should be more hope for proper adaptations.

With Dragon Ball, there's a beginning and an end. All done by one author. There are no different takes on the story because there really isn't a need for one. Dragon Ball is fine as it is (well, in my humble opinion). I can kinda understand the director adding scenes that weren't shown in the manga (Heck, they did so in the anime), but my current opinion of the film still holds. Well, at least until we see something.

[desirecampbell]

But why Easter weekend? Why not the weekend before or after? Isn't it usually a bad idea to schedule a movie on a holiday weekend? How many people go to see movies on New Years' Eve or Thanksgiving or Halloween?
Now I have the urge to go look that information up. >_O

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/we ... easter.htm

Matrix, Fargo, and a whole lotta nothing.

[Rocketman]

Infact, the only comic book based movies of recent memory the generally stay faithful to its source material would be 300 and Sin City by Frank Miller. Why is that? I'd like to think it's because their stories generally have a beginning and end.

300 is eighty-eight pages long.

[Chuquita]

But why Easter weekend? Why not the weekend before or after? Isn't it usually a bad idea to schedule a movie on a holiday weekend? How many people go to see movies on New Years' Eve or Thanksgiving or Halloween?
Now I have the urge to go look that information up. >_O

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/we ... easter.htm

Matrix, Fargo, and a whole lotta nothing.

Thank you for the link. :3

First off, is it wrong that I'm kind of amused that the Power Rangers movie opened that weekend too?

Second; after looking through the list, it seems to be all over the place in terms of what types of movies are there. It's mostly either horror movies, family movies, or sequels of some type.

[Sebastian (SB)]

Infact, the only comic book based movies of recent memory the generally stay faithful to its source material would be 300 and Sin City by Frank Miller. Why is that? I'd like to think it's because their stories generally have a beginning and end.

300 is eighty-eight pages long.

I don't think length should really matter. Sin City was about a couple of books if I recall. Both films ended up being about the same length.

[Chrono Trigger]

How many episodes was Dragon Ball ? Like a 150 something right ? How can squish all of that into a 2 hour movie ? How long was the manga up to that point ? Like 16 volumes right ? They could barely fit Lord of The Rings into a 9 hour movie so I wouldn't expect much from James Wong.

[Kunzait_83]

How many episodes was Dragon Ball ? Like a 150 something right ?

153.

[Herms]

How many episodes was Dragon Ball ? Like a 150 something right ? How can squish all of that into a 2 hour movie ? How long was the manga up to that point ? Like 16 volumes right ?

153 episodes of the anime, and 194 manga chapters (running a little over 16 volumes, but Viz squeezes the extra chapters into DB vol. 16).

[Chrono Trigger]

Damn I was thinking 152 but whatever. Anyway this how they should have done it. Goku lives in the forest alone, he meets Bulma, they go off together to find the Dragon Balls, meanwhile piccolo is released, Goku and Bulma meet yamcha in the desert, Goku meets roshi who happens to be training Krillin, yada yada yada, Climax of the movie takes place at the Tenkaichi Budokai, Tien and the others make cameo appearances, Goku fights Piccolo he wins and lets him live, Goku and Chi Chi get married.

Wow. That's horrible. I gave it a good shot though.

[Sebastian (SB)]

How many episodes was Dragon Ball ? Like a 150 something right ? How can squish all of that into a 2 hour movie ? How long was the manga up to that point ? Like 16 volumes right ? They could barely fit Lord of The Rings into a 9 hour movie so I wouldn't expect much from James Wong.

Yeah, they wouldn't be able to. I think much of the focus is entirely on the second half of the story. Leaving the first half mostly ignored. This Dragon Ball film is mostly as a precursor for what the American public generally wants, which I think is sad. Hopefully, once all the "Z Craze" is over, we'll get a more proper adaptation of Son Goku's beginnings. If they were to try the whole story up the the Freeza arc. I'd think it would be about 4-5 or more films.